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are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 12:03:39 AM   
Endsieg

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: North Atlantic Treaty Organization
Status: offline 		Looking at the many screenshots, at various zoom levels,  in recent days and prior, I'm wondering if the many rail lines i'm seeing are indeed historical and have been researched by the team?
I realize a lot of time has been spent researching the geo topography of the game map and the developpers have local help in eastern europe. Does the same apply for the rail lines?
Are all those twists and turns and routes through the various cities, towns as close to 1941> historical reality as can be surmised based on the available evidence?

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 331
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 12:11:57 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Pavel lives in Latvia and has access to alot of maps of the era. He spent over 4 months redoing the entire map database, so I would say it can't get much better...

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Post #: 332
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 12:13:59 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		don't you think that is kind of insulting to the guys who did the reseach into that ?

the details in the game are pretty close to what we can find (still disagreements)

over all from the maps shown to us, they look pretty good

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Post #: 333
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 12:30:41 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Looking at the many screenshots, at various zoom levels, in recent days and prior, I'm wondering if the many rail lines i'm seeing are indeed historical and have been researched by the team?
I realize a lot of time has been spent researching the geo topography of the game map and the developpers have local help in eastern europe. Does the same apply for the rail lines?
Are all those twists and turns and routes through the various cities, towns as close to 1941> historical reality as can be surmised based on the available evidence?


Most of the rails are based on 41-43 Soviet Atlas, so I'd say they are quite precise at least in the main battle areas, i.e. SU. Otherwise there always can be various interpretation of the same map data, graphically and logically.

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Post #: 334
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 12:32:55 AM   
Endsieg

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: North Atlantic Treaty Organization
Status: offline 		my post not meant as criticism or disbelief...just thought it wud be kewl to know: ...yes, the rail lines are where they really were, down to the 10 mile mile hexes.

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Post #: 335
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 12:48:22 AM   
Lützow


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Two more questions:

Is it possible to post some screens about oob's, statistics and all the spreadsheet stuff, or are those not ready to be shown yet ?

Will there be artwork in WitE ?

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Post #: 336
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 2:49:59 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Alot of those databases are still under construction (OOB's, production, ect, ect) and would better be held until a later time....We plan to show them but not quite yet...

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Post #: 337
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 10:26:07 AM   
Helpless


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quote:

Will there be artwork in WitE ?


Yes.

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Post #: 338
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 10:39:52 AM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
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quote:

9. Only AFVs and aircraft have fixed production. All other units are produced "on demand".


That could be problematic. If the equipment is build "on demand", does that mean the Axis player can never have a surplus of equipment? For example: if all units have more or less their organic artillery, do all the artillery factories in Germany simply stop working?

Heavy losses of a specific kind of equipment would be very hard to replace in that case.

The TOAW/WitP system of a fixed number of equipment arriving at a certain date isn't perfect, but it's preferable over an "on demand" system in my opinion, as an "on demand" has a greater potential to cause unrealistic logistical problems.

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Post #: 339
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 10:45:38 AM   
Sentinel Six

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 9/3/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

quote:

9. Only AFVs and aircraft have fixed production. All other units are produced "on demand".


That could be problematic. If the equipment is build "on demand", does that mean the Axis player can never have a surplus of equipment? For example: if all units have more or less their organic artillery, do all the artillery factories in Germany simply stop working?

Heavy losses of a specific kind of equipment would be very hard to replace in that case.

The TOAW/WitP system of a fixed number of equipment arriving at a certain date isn't perfect, but it's preferable over an "on demand" system in my opinion, as an "on demand" has a greater potential to cause unrealistic logistical problems.


I agree it could be a problem but could be worked around if there is a limited pool for equipment which would be filled before production stops, this would smooth out any logistics problems. Maybe it's already in the game?

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 340
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 10:49:04 AM   
Sentinel Six

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 9/3/2009
Status: offline 		Is there a facility whereby captured equipment can be used if available in big enough quantities? If already included is this built into the TOEs? 

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Post #: 341
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 11:20:14 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

do all the artillery factories in Germany simply stop working?


No. Armament points are still being produced and you just use them from the stock on demand. Consumption is based on cost of the equipment.

quote:

The TOAW/WitP system of a fixed number of equipment arriving at a certain date isn't perfect, but it's preferable over an "on demand" system in my opinion


WITP is on demand system. WITE will be quite similar.

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Post #: 342
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 12:25:11 PM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

WITP is on demand system. WITE will be quite similar


If it's similar to WitP it could work I guess. WitP doesn't seem to have a full on demand system, but I'm probably confusing the ships/AFV/aircraft production with the rest of the production.

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Post #: 343
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 2:13:05 PM   
jaw

 

Posts: 1045
Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

If the equipment is build "on demand", does that mean the Axis player can never have a surplus of equipment? For example: if all units have more or less their organic artillery, do all the artillery factories in Germany simply stop working?

Heavy losses of a specific kind of equipment would be very hard to replace in that case.

The TOAW/WitP system of a fixed number of equipment arriving at a certain date isn't perfect, but it's preferable over an "on demand" system in my opinion, as an "on demand" has a greater potential to cause unrealistic logistical problems.


The production system receives armaments and manpower at a fixed rate and converts them into weapons and squads based on the difference between the current strength of your forces and their TOE strength. While admittedly too efficient, the production on demand system avoids two major problems:

First, you eliminate shortages and overages of individual weapons and squads that could result from a fixed rate of production system. Armaments and manpower can accumulate but the units you produce from them won't. This doesn't mean you will get everything you need. If due to heavy casualties you exhaust the available pool of armaments and/or manpower you will be unable to provide all the replacements necessary to bring combat units up to strength.

Second, you remove from the player the burden of managing the production of dozens of units feeding into hundreds of divisions. Do you really want to be trying to figure out each week how many infantry squads, engineers, mortars, anti-tank guns, infantry guns, howitzers, machine guns, etc., etc. to produce? The game is supposed to be War in the East not Production in the East.

As for logistics, I'm not sure what your "unrealistic problems" would be but in WitE receipt of replacements is directly related to a unit's supply state. The greater the distance you are from a supply source the less replacements you are likely to receive. I find this system quite realistic as it gives you a reason for withdrawing units into the rear to rest and refit.

(in reply to ComradeP)
Post #: 344
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 3:36:48 PM   
thackaray


Posts: 50
Joined: 1/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jaw

As for logistics, I'm not sure what your "unrealistic problems" would be but in WitE receipt of replacements is directly related to a unit's supply state. The greater the distance you are from a supply source the less replacements you are likely to receive. I find this system quite realistic as it gives you a reason for withdrawing units into the rear to rest and refit.



I've got a few questions about when units are sent to rear to rest and refit.

1) When units are sent to the rear what happens to the entrenchment/fortication levels that that particular unit had built up in the hex it was occupying? Does the unit replacing it in the level, receive the advantage of the built up fortication/entrenchment levels of the withdrawn unit or does the new unit occupying that hex have to start again ?

2) Units that are resting/refiting in the rear, do they form part of that turn's reserve forces for either attack of defence ?


(in reply to jaw)
Post #: 345
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 4:37:29 PM   
jaw

 

Posts: 1045
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thackaray



I've got a few questions about when units are sent to rear to rest and refit.

1) When units are sent to the rear what happens to the entrenchment/fortication levels that that particular unit had built up in the hex it was occupying? Does the unit replacing it in the level, receive the advantage of the built up fortication/entrenchment levels of the withdrawn unit or does the new unit occupying that hex have to start again ?

2) Units that are resting/refiting in the rear, do they form part of that turn's reserve forces for either attack of defence ?




1. It is the hex that is fortifying not the unit so as long as the hex remains occupied it retains its fortification level. Even after a unit leaves the hex, the fortification level will remain and slowly degrade over time if the hex remains unoccupied.

2. A unit in refit mode cannot also be in reserve mode. You have to choose one or the other.

(in reply to thackaray)
Post #: 346
RE: are rail lines historical and researched? - 12/17/2009 5:45:36 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Endsieg

my post not meant as criticism or disbelief...just thought it wud be kewl to know: ...yes, the rail lines are where they really were, down to the 10 mile mile hexes.


no hassle then, it may of been more the way the question was asked, but, yes, based on the maps and books and what not that are being used, the RR system looks to be very good

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Post #: 347
Admin pts. - 12/18/2009 9:40:34 AM   
critter


Posts: 139
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		In the first game you had to transfer inf units out of the armor corps due to them not being able to keep up. How will this work with the admin pt system? Will the attack suffer while we have to reorg our armies?
Do reserves stay with the units they're posted to? Or return back to their HQ?

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Post #: 348
RE: Admin pts. - 12/18/2009 11:35:39 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Transferring units costs varying amounts of admin points.  Don't think there is any penalty to combat unless an HQ gets more subordinates than it can handle in which case there are a number of penalties.  Not sure how you are using the term "reserves" in your question.  Units that are reassigned stay reassigned unless you reassign them yet again.  Hope that helps.

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Post #: 349
RE: Admin pts. - 12/18/2009 12:41:22 PM   
jaw

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: critter

In the first game you had to transfer inf units out of the armor corps due to them not being able to keep up. How will this work with the admin pt system? Will the attack suffer while we have to reorg our armies?
Do reserves stay with the units they're posted to? Or return back to their HQ?


Unlike War In Russia, combat units aren't "inside" corps so an infantry unit attached to a panzer corps only means the unit will have trouble keeping up with the motorized elements of the corps. From a combat perspective it is actually a good thing to have an infantry division attached to a panzer corps since in battle it will soak up a good portion of the infantry losses that would otherwise have to be borne by your infantry weak panzer and motorized divisions.

Admin points are spent to transfer combat units from one headquarters to another headquarters, to replace leaders, re-activate static units and (Russian player only) to build new units. There is a penalty when units from different headquarters combine in an attack but it is not so severe as you won't want to do it. It is far more important to make sure that attacking units are within support range of their headquarters than it is to worry about units from different headquarters combining in an attack.

In the old War In Russia, reserves were any unit (not air) "inside" a headquarters that could potentially be auto-transferred into an attacking or defending corps during combat. It doesn't work that way in WitE.

The only units "inside" a headquarters are support units. These are independent battalions (sometimes regiments for the Russian) of artillery, anti-tank guns, engineers, flak, etc. that lend their combat strength to units attached to that particular headquarters attacking or defending. These independent units do not physically leave the headquarters to provide their support. Support units are not reserves in the context of WitE.

Reserves are combat units (units actually on the map) that have been placed in reserve status. There are four player selectable statuses for combat units in WitE: Ready, Refit, Reserve and Static. Ready is the normal status for a combat unit. Refit gives the unit a priority on the receipt of replacements and/or new equipment. Reserve status means the unit can potentially add its combat value to an attack or defense just like a support unit provided certain criteria are met. Getting help from a reserve unit is considerably more iffy than from headquarters support units. Static units forfeit their mobility in order to provide additional trucks to the truck pool.

(in reply to critter)
Post #: 350
RE: Admin pts. - 12/18/2009 12:49:41 PM   
critter


Posts: 139
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		The Germans never rebuild lost units?

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Post #: 351
RE: Admin pts. - 12/18/2009 1:02:20 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: critter

The Germans never rebuild lost units?


Yes they can. As of now they come back on the map, empty, on the turn after being destroyed but have to rebuild over time before they could be used.

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Post #: 352
RE: Admin pts. - 12/18/2009 1:07:23 PM   
Rhetor

 

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From: Gdansk, Poland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3


quote:

ORIGINAL: critter

The Germans never rebuild lost units?


Yes they can. As of now they come back on the map, empty, on the turn after being destroyed but have to rebuild over time before they could be used.


how about disbanding units? Later in the game German player might want to get rid of some of less important units that would otherwise drain replacement pools.

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 353
RE: Admin pts. - 12/18/2009 1:15:44 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Yep, thats included also...

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Post #: 354
RE: Admin pts. - 12/18/2009 1:22:20 PM   
critter


Posts: 139
Joined: 3/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

Yep, thats included also...


Damn this is gonna be sweet...

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Post #: 355
RE: Admin pts. - 12/18/2009 5:48:59 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline 		Is there a victory point cost associated with disbanding units? I always hated how TOAW considered my disbanded formations to be destroyed by the enemy as far as the game was concerned.

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Post #: 356
RE: Admin pts. - 12/18/2009 5:54:38 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Victory conditions are still a work in progress.

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Post #: 357
RE: Admin pts. - 12/18/2009 7:38:04 PM   
Rhetor

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 1/31/2005
From: Gdansk, Poland
Status: offline 		I have a question regarding Soviet reinforcements. Where would they appear? As we have seen in other thread, the map is indeed huge - it stretches East as far as the Urals. There might be a catch, if the Soviet replacement units appear in those remote locations. Looking them up and bringing to the front might prove a tedious task.

It would all be all right if reinforcements/new units appeared like it was handled in old WiR - in specific headquarters.

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 358
RE: Admin pts. - 12/18/2009 7:47:47 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		Here is the short answer on Soviet reinforcements:  Destroyed Soviet units don't come back.  But you can build a new Soviet unit adjacent to an urban area.  Like rebuilt German units these new Soviet units will take a few turns to be combat ready after being placed on the map.  So no you don't have to search the map for reinforcements.

< Message edited by elmo3 -- 12/18/2009 7:48:32 PM >

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We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw

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Post #: 359
RE: Admin pts. - 12/18/2009 7:50:32 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		They form near population centers mainly. They form as Armys, and the first turn their mainly shells and after 3 turns there ready to go. There are units that come from the eastern edge of the map also. The Soviets produce like rabbits in 41. Also the Soviet player can build an assortment of other units using there AP's, Forts, AT, Inf Div, Arm Brg...

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Post #: 360
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