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RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/16/2009 3:36:01 AM

Kull

Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Subs are too strong!

Patch

ASW is too strong!

Patch

Subs are too strong!

Here we go again.

Chickenboy calls it the "pendulum effect" and I'm inclined to agree with him. In my pathetically small coding experience, one rule of thumb was to change only one variable at a time, and test the hell out of it before even thinking about changing anything else. That (making multiple adjustments) more than anything can drive some real wild swings in behaviour - worse, you're no longer sure which change is driving the results. Assuming you guys know that better than me, the other option is to perhaps return to the original v1.0 values and just alter them by 1/3 of the original tweak. On the other hand, given the Grand Canyon-sized differential between our respective levels of knowledge in this area, I'm probably oversimplifying.

< Message edited by Kull -- 12/16/2009 3:37:18 AM >

(in reply to Don Bowen)

Post #: 451

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/16/2009 7:47:59 AM

herwin

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Subs are too strong!

Patch

ASW is too strong!

Patch

Subs are too strong!

Here we go again.

It's probably unfixable given the game engine, and I doubt it will just come out in the wash. It has to do with speed and tactics. Remember, the Queens usually travelled unescorted--their cruise speed was too great for a sub to get into attack position. Warships moving through or performing operations in an ocean area were more or less vulnerable to ambushes. Convoys' moving at 7-9 knots, on the other hand, were sometimes the focus of major battles as there was opportunity for subs to move into attack position. Methodically stripping the escorts from a CVTF moving at speed to get access to the carrier being escorted is more like a convoy attack than anything ever actually seen.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Don Bowen)

Post #: 452

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/16/2009 1:39:49 PM

herwin

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline

Let me provide the details of the attack:

I had 3 CVTFs and 2 SAGs on patrol south of Guadalcanal. They encountered a IJN sub and it ambushed the Enterprise, hitting her twice and slowing her to 18 knots. I removed her surface escorts and sent her to Noumea with four good DDs as ASW escort. I also deployed some ASW TFs to the area, one from Noumea and one using local assets.

The following two turns, successive attacks by RO boats stripped off two of the escorting DDs, and chopped up one of the ASW TFs. Finally, on the third turn, one got to the carrier, which had two DDs left, and hit her twice. During this period, I was frantically trying to reinforce the escort and get the ASW TFs into the area. The reinforcements ran into the meet bug, and the stronger of the ASW TFs stayed in Noumea, apparently planning to meet the CVTF there.

Lessons learned:
1. The meet bug has not been squashed.
2. Subs are too effective.

Japanese submarine torpedoes at that point in the war had a range of 7-9,000 meters at 30 knots. A TF making 16-18 knots was several times as fast as a submerged IJN submarine, so the sub could be treated as essentially stationary, functioning like a mine with an effective range of perhaps 3-4 nm. In game terms, each sub covered about 7 nm of a 46 nm hex, so the probability of engaging the major combatants in the TF was about 15% per sub in the hex--or 25% to include engaging the screen. (It was different if the TF were operating in the hex or were moving slow enough that the sub could approach it, but here we're considering a TF passing through the hex.) If the sub was close enough to engage, there was still the problem of getting a decent target solution. What I was seeing here reset my indicator lamps.

(For the Navy types here, I was a system engineer for the IBM BSY-2 proposal, doing the system modelling. I also did communications system modelling for the Centurion class and worked on OBU, ASWOC, and some other more obscure systems. It's not accidental my PhD was a sonar system model, investigating acoustically-guided target detection, tracking, classification, and engagement. A guy down one floor came up with the idea for the BQD-5G WAA.)

< Message edited by herwin -- 12/16/2009 4:33:53 PM >

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(in reply to herwin)

Post #: 453

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/16/2009 2:45:31 PM

stuman

Posts: 3907
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

Let me provide the details of the attack:

I had 3 CVTFs and 2 SAGs on patrol south of Guadalcanal. They encountered a IJN sub and it ambushed the Enterprise, hitting her twice and slowing her to 18 knots. I removed her surface escorts and sent her to Noumea with four good DDs as ASW escort. I also deployed some ASW TFs to the area, one from Noumea and one using local assets.

The following two turns, successive attacks by RO boats stripped off two of the escorting DDs, and chopped up one of the ASW TFs. Finally, on the third turn, one got to the carrier, which had two DDs left, and hit her twice. During this period, I was frantically trying to reinforce the escort and get the ASW TFs into the area. The reinforcements ran into the meet bug, and the stronger of the ASW TFs stayed in Noumea, apparently planning to meet the CVTF there.

Lessons learned:
1. The meet bug has not been squashed.
2. Subs are too effective.

Japanese submarine torpedoes at that point in the war had a range of 7-9,000 meters at 30 knots. A TF making 16-18 knots was several times as fast as a submerged IJN submarine, so the sub could be treated as essentially stationary, functioning like a mine with an effective range of perhaps 3-4 nm. In game terms, each sub covered about 7 nm of a 46 nm hex, so the probability of engaging the major combatants in the TF was about 15% per sub in the hex--or 25% to include engaging the screen. (It was different if the TF were operating in the hex or were moving slow enough that the sub could approach it, but here we're considering a TF making a passage through the hex.) If the sub was close enough to engage, there was still the problem of getting a decent target solution. What I was seeing here reset my indicator lamps.

(For the Navy types here, I was a system engineer for the IBM BSY-2 proposal, doing the system modelling. I also did communications system modelling for the Centurion class and worked on OBU, ASWOC, and some other more obscure systems. It's not accidental my PhD was a sonar system model, investigating acoustically-guided target detection, classification, and engagement.)

Interesting. And geez, I never get that lucky against CV TFs.

_____________________________

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley

(in reply to herwin)

Post #: 454

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/16/2009 2:58:43 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: goran007
First of all: I beg you dont make artillery useless.

Artillery does take lives and it effects receiving end as fatigue and disruption.
All that nonsense about my guys in lev 3 fort took artillery bombardment for 20 days and are now destroyed, wtf... just ignore.

If you let you guys being bombarded for week or two and you expect that troops trained and led as bad as Chinese offer resistance to superior numbers of Japan, forget it, that shouldn't happen.

General rule is: if evenly trained and led armies are in combat and attacker has 5:1 artillery; 5:1 in tanks; at least 3:1 in soldiers. Defender will loose 90% of time. Losses should be from 50-80% AV (hard to judge human losses)
Also AE does benefit defenders because easiest way to destroy an army is to envelop it and destroy it with artillery what isen't really modeled in a game.

Another thing is morale of the units, 50% or more for Chinese shouldn't be possible.
People who know that are outgunned, outnumbered, who eat leather belts to survive, who don't belive in country or leaders aren't motivated to fight.

During beta patch i also noticed that medium combat activity in China eats a lot of supplies, a lot more than before. So plz be careful increasing it even more.

In other words, please ignore that fact that in real life China was huge mess that was laregly stalemated for the entire war; and let's ignore the fact that the intention of the game designers was to replicate this historical quagmire. The fact that the Japanese can blitzkrieg through the country now is cool!

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 12/16/2009 3:01:49 PM >

(in reply to goran007)

Post #: 455

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/16/2009 3:02:30 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Subs are too strong!

Patch

ASW is too strong!

Patch

Subs are too strong!

Here we go again.

I'm one of those saying subs are too strong. Until about two weeks ago, I never had an issue wtih subs in AE (nor in WitP nor in UV). I just know that something happened that turned subs into nucelar devices that are death on ASW and able to operate with near impunity IN major Allied base hexes that have multiple ASW TFs and ASW air patrols operating there.

(in reply to Don Bowen)

Post #: 456

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/16/2009 3:24:25 PM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Subs are too strong!

Patch

ASW is too strong!

Patch

Subs are too strong!

Here we go again.

I'm one of those saying subs are too strong. Until about two weeks ago, I never had an issue wtih subs in AE (nor in WitP nor in UV). I just know that something happened that turned subs into nucelar devices that are death on ASW and able to operate with near impunity IN major Allied base hexes that have multiple ASW TFs and ASW air patrols operating there.

subs in a PBEM aren�t as strong as vs. the AI but in an AI game you knock out the IJN by the end of 42 with subs alone. I can tell you what made subs what you call nuclear devices: the patrol order and the fact that subs react and follow targets on their own. This makes them ten times more dangerous than in WITP.

In a PBEM you should be able to limit the subs� effect somewhat by your actions (if you know what you do

) but they will still be far more potent than in WITP due to the new possibilities. And not you should be the one that is complaining but Miller, because you are the one who will get 200+ of the buggers to hunt his shipping.

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(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 457

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/16/2009 3:29:44 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Subs are too strong!

Patch

ASW is too strong!

Patch

Subs are too strong!

Here we go again.

I'm one of those saying subs are too strong. Until about two weeks ago, I never had an issue wtih subs in AE (nor in WitP nor in UV). I just know that something happened that turned subs into nucelar devices that are death on ASW and able to operate with near impunity IN major Allied base hexes that have multiple ASW TFs and ASW air patrols operating there.

subs in a PBEM aren�t as strong as vs. the AI but in an AI game you knock out the IJN by the end of 42 with subs alone. I can tell you what made subs what you call nuclear devices: the patrol order and the fact that subs react and follow targets on their own. This makes them ten times more dangerous than in WITP.

In a PBEM you should be able to limit the subs� effect somewhat by your actions (if you know what you do ) but they will still be far more potent than in WITP due to the new possibilities. And not you should be the one that is complaining but Miller, because you are the one who will get 200+ of the buggers to hunt his shipping.

The react feature is just part of the problem. The two biggest concerns are that subs are taking out ASW with wild abandon and subs are able to operate in heavily defended ports with impunity.

I realize Allied subs will shut down the Japanese if this issue isn't fixed and I don't want that to happen.

(in reply to castor troy)

Post #: 458

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/16/2009 4:16:57 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

I don't think 'react' should be any kind of problem. It's just a tool to reduce required micromanagement, as is patrol zones. The real issues are:

1) "Are subs too successful offensively?"

AND

2) "Are subs too difficult to suppress or hit with:

a) surface ASW

OR

b) airborne ASW?"

I haven't put enough time in with Patch 2 to have a direct opinion on current code. Prior to Patch 2, they seemed OK to me on all three counts (1, 2a, and 2b). Allied vs AI, IJN subs were a definite pain in the neck, but the threat could be managed. That had the flavor of IRL WWII as I understand it. Surface ASW took it on the chin for a while. Air ASW took time to ramp up, both in terms of experience and in terms of capable assets. Once it did, it was much easier to avoid IJN subs and, with capable surface assets, easier to attack them (though still not entirely safe). Also, escorting a convoy in any way helped a great deal with reducing carnage to tankers and merchantmen.

As I said, my experience was pre-Patch 2. If something changed to make subs 'nucular' (

) in the Patch then that's where we should focus, not on patrol zones or react range settings.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 459

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/16/2009 4:33:16 PM

Admiral Scott

Posts: 625
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Syracuse, NY USA
Status: offline

I think we will get subs and ASW fixed...........eventually.
Hopefully the next hotfix patch will be an improvement in this area.

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 460

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/16/2009 4:45:27 PM

trhinz

Posts: 70
Joined: 2/7/2004
From: Saskatchewan, Canada
Status: offline

Some concerns about the new Industry Management Screen:

It appears that in the Air column the HI requirement figure does not take into account the points needed for planes having more than one engine. For example the production of 34 Lilys shows a need for 612 HI. This would be correct if the Lily was a single engined aircraft, but my reading of p232 of the manual indicates the HI requirement should be 1224.

Next, the total HI requirements shown at the bottom half of the screen show 0 for aircraft production. How can this be?

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 461

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/18/2009 10:47:12 PM

Oliver Heindorf

Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline

Is there any chance of a near-time release of a hot fix in the holiday time ?

Again today, I lost hundresds of thousand points of Resources AND supply AGAIN, I lost almost one million points of supply alone last turn !!!

my game is now broken and all the hours spent there are thrown in the trash bin - I lost two times Resources now and nearly a million of supply points today again - how on earth I can recover from that loss in my current game ? Thank you !

All the supply is nearly gone and the time spent on my current game is wasted time, thank you very much because with these supply losses, I feel like 44 now. But I am in Feb 42 and those supply losses will kill me soon.

honestly, the release patches here seems to be Beta patches for me as the first official patch had to be hot fixed as well !

To say I am upset is an understatement. I wonder what all thoses testers did - despite the fact that the problems werent in the Beta-Versions....

I delete AE now and wait till the game is playable - probably in a year or more.

*rant over - feel free to flame now.

_____________________________

(in reply to Kull)

Post #: 462

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/18/2009 10:58:08 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Oliver, as a fellow player I'm wondering whether you can just back up a few turns when a fix is available and continue on?� (I'm taking your word for it that a fix is is needed, but I'm not actually a developer, and as a player I haven't encountered your particular problem).

(in reply to Oliver Heindorf)

Post #: 463

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/18/2009 11:46:16 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf

Is there any chance of a near-time release of a hot fix in the holiday time ?

Again today, I lost hundresds of thousand points of Resources AND supply AGAIN, I lost almost one million points of supply alone last turn !!!�

my game is now broken and all the hours spent there are thrown in the trash bin� - I lost two times Resources now and nearly a million of supply points today again - how on earth I can recover from that loss in my current game ?� Thank you ! All the supply is nearly gone and the time spent on my current game is wasted time, thank you very much because with these supply losses, I feel like 44 now. But I am in Feb 42 and those supply losses will kill me soon.

honestly, the release patches here seems to be Beta patches for me as the first official patch had to be hot fixed as well !

To say I am upset is an understatement. I wonder what all thoses testers did - despite the fact that the problems werent in the Beta-Versions....

I delete AE now and wait till the game is playable - probably in a year or more.

*rant over - feel free to flame now.

Well, if we're going to be whining, what were you people doing when we did the public beta?

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Oliver Heindorf)

Post #: 464

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 12:11:22 AM

Menser

Posts: 206
Joined: 5/2/2005
From: Peabody, Massachusetts
Status: offline

not noticing the lost supplies and resorces in Tokyo apparently :)

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"If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing." Emo Philips
"Caedite eos! Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius." Abbot Arnaud Amalric

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 465

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 12:27:04 AM

jwilkerson

Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline

We're driving to have patch 02 hot fix up tonight (USA Pacific Time) - should be a matter of hours now.

_____________________________

AE Project Lead
New Game Project Lead

(in reply to Menser)

Post #: 466

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 12:42:52 AM

Knavey

Posts: 3052
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
Status: offline

Thanks for the update JW.

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USN 87-93
"Going slow in the fast direction"

(in reply to jwilkerson)

Post #: 467

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 12:43:10 AM

GB68

Posts: 113
Joined: 8/4/2009
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

We're driving to have patch 02 hot fix up tonight (USA Pacific Time) - should be a matter of hours now.

Great, thanks Guys!

_____________________________

"Are you going to come quietly, or do I have to use earplugs?"
- Spike Milligan

(in reply to jwilkerson)

Post #: 468

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 12:51:42 AM

stuman

Posts: 3907
Joined: 9/14/2008
From: Elvis' Hometown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf

Is there any chance of a near-time release of a hot fix in the holiday time ?

Again today, I lost hundresds of thousand points of Resources AND supply AGAIN, I lost almost one million points of supply alone last turn !!!�

my game is now broken and all the hours spent there are thrown in the trash bin� - I lost two times Resources now and nearly a million of supply points today again - how on earth I can recover from that loss in my current game ?� Thank you ! All the supply is nearly gone and the time spent on my current game is wasted time, thank you very much because with these supply losses, I feel like 44 now. But I am in Feb 42 and those supply losses will kill me soon.

honestly, the release patches here seems to be Beta patches for me as the first official patch had to be hot fixed as well !

To say I am upset is an understatement. I wonder what all thoses testers did - despite the fact that the problems werent in the Beta-Versions....

I delete AE now and wait till the game is playable - probably in a year or more.

*rant over - feel free to flame now.

Oliver , I do not want to insult you by pointing out something obvious but are you sure that you have actually lost the amounts above, as in they are literally no where on the game map ? I have played through about 2 weeks or more of game time since patch 2 ( this is against the Allied AI ) and I have not lost any supplies or resources. The supplies have either gone to my troops, or to a couple of bases, but with use of the supply buttons I have my supplies now where I need them. The resources in my game did not disappear, just bunched up some and I am having to move some around manually.

I am sorry you are having a problem. Please try Canoerebel's suggestion.

_____________________________

" Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room. " President Muffley

(in reply to Oliver Heindorf)

Post #: 469

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 1:11:14 AM

erstad

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline

quote:

Well, if we're going to be whining, what were you people doing when we did the public beta?

I can't speak for everyone else but I did run one turn of my PBEM under the public beta and saw a big resource drop. However, the public beta still had the resource loss in movement and there was a *lot* of readjustment in that turn so it wasn't obvious that the drop wasn't merely millions of resources doing a one-time relocation.

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 470

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 1:24:18 AM

jwilkerson

Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf

Is there any chance of a near-time release of a hot fix in the holiday time ?

Again today, I lost hundresds of thousand points of Resources AND supply AGAIN, I lost almost one million points of supply alone last turn !!!�

my game is now broken and all the hours spent there are thrown in the trash bin� - I lost two times Resources now and nearly a million of supply points today again - how on earth I can recover from that loss in my current game ?� Thank you ! All the supply is nearly gone and the time spent on my current game is wasted time, thank you very much because with these supply losses, I feel like 44 now. But I am in Feb 42 and those supply losses will kill me soon.

honestly, the release patches here seems to be Beta patches for me as the first official patch had to be hot fixed as well !

To say I am upset is an understatement. I wonder what all thoses testers did - despite the fact that the problems werent in the Beta-Versions....

I delete AE now and wait till the game is playable - probably in a year or more.

*rant over - feel free to flame now.

Well, if we're going to be whining, what were you people doing when we did the public beta?

hey, hey, hey, when people get frustrated due to legitimate issues they should be allowed to blow off a little steam ...

===

Oliver, we are working to fix the problems as fast as we can - that is the best thing we can do at this point.

_____________________________

AE Project Lead
New Game Project Lead

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 471

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 1:25:55 AM

Admiral Scott

Posts: 625
Joined: 1/8/2001
From: Syracuse, NY USA
Status: offline

Thanks JW

(in reply to jwilkerson)

Post #: 472

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 2:02:54 AM

PaxMondo

Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

hey, hey, hey, when people get frustrated due to legitimate issues they should be allowed to blow off a little steam ...

===

Oliver, we are working to fix the problems as fast as we can - that is the best thing we can do at this point.

Personally, I'm pretty happy with the support so far. Good patches with pubic beta followed by hotfix to address what's missed. SWEET.

thanks for the work.

PS: looking forward to tonights hotfix. can't wait.

< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 12/19/2009 2:03:09 AM >

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to jwilkerson)

Post #: 473

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 3:39:45 AM

Buck Beach

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf

Is there any chance of a near-time release of a hot fix in the holiday time ?

Again today, I lost hundresds of thousand points of Resources AND supply AGAIN, I lost almost one million points of supply alone last turn !!!�

my game is now broken and all the hours spent there are thrown in the trash bin� - I lost two times Resources now and nearly a million of supply points today again - how on earth I can recover from that loss in my current game ?� Thank you ! All the supply is nearly gone and the time spent on my current game is wasted time, thank you very much because with these supply losses, I feel like 44 now. But I am in Feb 42 and those supply losses will kill me soon.

honestly, the release patches here seems to be Beta patches for me as the first official patch had to be hot fixed as well !

To say I am upset is an understatement. I wonder what all thoses testers did - despite the fact that the problems werent in the Beta-Versions....

I delete AE now and wait till the game is playable - probably in a year or more.

*rant over - feel free to flame now.

Well, if we're going to be whining, what were you people doing when we did the public beta?

And you?? You are purportedly part of the Dev Team, but from what I see all you contribute is adding to your post count with coustic comments. I see you as an added value of zero.

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 474

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 4:07:35 AM

erstad

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline

Well, let's not forget that 95% of what the devs and betas do isn't directly visible to us, except as an aggregate result. So who among the hoi polloi knows who the busiest beavers really are, or who contributed what? Me, I'm just thankful for each and every one of the volunteers who help maintain and improve the game.

(in reply to Buck Beach)

Post #: 475

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 4:24:18 AM

jwilkerson

Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

Well, let's not forget that 95% of what the devs and betas do isn't directly visible to us, except as an aggregate result. So who among the hoi polloi knows who the busiest beavers really are, or who contributed what? Me, I'm just thankful for each and every one of the volunteers who help maintain and improve the game.

Here was a thread I posted way back when on who did what ...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2173764

_____________________________

AE Project Lead
New Game Project Lead

(in reply to erstad)

Post #: 476

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 4:26:02 AM

BeastieDog

Posts: 95
Joined: 12/22/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf

Is there any chance of a near-time release of a hot fix in the holiday time ?

Again today, I lost hundresds of thousand points of Resources AND supply AGAIN, I lost almost one million points of supply alone last turn !!!�

my game is now broken and all the hours spent there are thrown in the trash bin� - I lost two times Resources now and nearly a million of supply points today again - how on earth I can recover from that loss in my current game ?� Thank you ! All the supply is nearly gone and the time spent on my current game is wasted time, thank you very much because with these supply losses, I feel like 44 now. But I am in Feb 42 and those supply losses will kill me soon.

honestly, the release patches here seems to be Beta patches for me as the first official patch had to be hot fixed as well !

To say I am upset is an understatement. I wonder what all thoses testers did - despite the fact that the problems werent in the Beta-Versions....

I delete AE now and wait till the game is playable - probably in a year or more.

*rant over - feel free to flame now.

Oliver,

I ran turn one under the hotfix and total resource count dropped just 27,000 anf Tokyo increased from 900,000 to 1,476,600. On first blush it looks like they fixed this problem.

_____________________________

Dog

(in reply to Oliver Heindorf)

Post #: 477

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 11:53:17 AM

bklooste

Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

In other words, please ignore that fact that in real life China was huge mess that was laregly stalemated for the entire war; and let's ignore the fact that the intention of the game designers was to replicate this historical quagmire. The fact that the Japanese can blitzkrieg through the country now is cool!

There is only one reason Historically china became a Stalemate and that is they gave the Japs a bloody nose at Changasha in October 41 and again a much bigger one in December 24, 1941 � January 15, 1942 ( note the dates) after those 2 losses the Japanese had suffered too much and units need to be replaced yet units were in the South Pacific. It is worh reading that battle a few times ,the city is the most tcrtical to the Japanese , the Chinese had their best general there ( IMHO) , brought their H arty , brought 300K troops (reinforced From Ichang) and out maneuvered the Japanese they deserve a lot of respect for this critical battle as it created the stalemate.

Yet time and time again i see the allied player take or try to take Ichang ( which is not worth much and is a poison pawn) get bled in the process and then complain when the Japanese attacks Changsha and they have only 100K soldiers there and get creamed. The more i read about the Chinese senior generals the more respect i have for them as their oponent had all the cards. I dont see the players often enough have 3:1 numercal superiority when defending or 5:1 when attacking that was the ratio the Chinese Generals used , if they couldnt they didnt defend it.

Im not saying there is no issues there are a few ( arty vs high forts , arty order , supply use by artillary , ease of supply in China ) but the tactics also leave something to be desired , though they should be better now there is less need for the Chinese to fight a 100K + Japanese Death star , they can try to cut it off or just let em have what they are going for.

Removing the artillary from Kuantang in Dec-Feb 41 is a very valid tactic with Russia very busy and could have been used historically , it would be quite interesting what impact it would have had on that key battle since the Chinese gained significant artillary advantage from nearby high ground.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 478

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 3:01:30 PM

erstad

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

Well, let's not forget that 95% of what the devs and betas do isn't directly visible to us, except as an aggregate result. So who among the hoi polloi knows who the busiest beavers really are, or who contributed what? Me, I'm just thankful for each and every one of the volunteers who help maintain and improve the game.

Here was a thread I posted way back when on who did what ...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2173764

I was perhaps a little too subtle. The point I was trying to make was that it was unfair, IMHO, for a previous poster to assess Terminus' value (or anyone else, for that matter) to the project solely on the basis of reading some of what he posts.

And, more generally, that there are a lot of guys who are putting a lot of time and energy into this, probably much more than we realize; and while it's OK to "blow of steam" once in a while when things are borked we should also be very appreciative of what we have.

/end brown nose mode/

< Message edited by erstad -- 12/19/2009 3:21:57 PM >

(in reply to jwilkerson)

Post #: 479

RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 ... Patch 03 ... - 12/19/2009 4:02:26 PM

Buck Beach

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

Well, let's not forget that 95% of what the devs and betas do isn't directly visible to us, except as an aggregate result. So who among the hoi polloi knows who the busiest beavers really are, or who contributed what? Me, I'm just thankful for each and every one of the volunteers who help maintain and improve the game.

Here was a thread I posted way back when on who did what ...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2173764

I was perhaps a little too subtle. The point I was trying to make was that it was unfair, IMHO, for a previous poster to assess Terminus' value (or anyone else, for that matter) to the project solely on the basis of reading some of what he posts.

And, more generally, that there are a lot of guys who are putting a lot of time and energy into this, probably much more than we realize; and while it's OK to "blow of steam" once in a while when things are borked we should also be very appreciative of what we have.

/end brown nose mode/

OK I seems to owe Terminus an apology for the "purportedly" and "added value of zero" comments as they relate to his participation in the game's development. However, he has the bedside manner of Dr. House (yes I know he doesn't watch TV) and most of his posts I read do qualify for the caustic mannerism referenced and added value of zero comment.

Oh and BTW I am not one of the wanna be jealous people of his being one of the in crowd, or however he put it in a recent post, or one of the whiners, as he referred to Oliver.

/end of not brown nosing mode/

(in reply to erstad)

Post #: 480