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how much assault value? - 12/26/2009 6:21:33 PM   
dougmichel


Posts: 58
Joined: 4/5/2005
Status: offline 		I have a question about invading other cities. About how much assault value do you need to win a battle. Often I see armies with 70k spotted troops in 10 or so units. How do make a determination how much assault you need to be victorious? What about for atolls or other small islands with a base unit and maybe a small combat unit? Do you need to send an entire division at one of these, or do smaller units win these fights? Do you keep pressing attacks even with 0 to 1 odds like the AI seems to do, eventually you will win, or do you add a bunch more units until you get at least 1 to 1? Any tips you can give me on the art of ground combat will be appreciated.
Post #: 1
RE: how much assault value? - 12/26/2009 7:18:21 PM   
Misconduct


Posts: 1864
Joined: 2/18/2009
From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dougmichel

I have a question about invading other cities. About how much assault value do you need to win a battle. Often I see armies with 70k spotted troops in 10 or so units. How do make a determination how much assault you need to be victorious? What about for atolls or other small islands with a base unit and maybe a small combat unit? Do you need to send an entire division at one of these, or do smaller units win these fights? Do you keep pressing attacks even with 0 to 1 odds like the AI seems to do, eventually you will win, or do you add a bunch more units until you get at least 1 to 1? Any tips you can give me on the art of ground combat will be appreciated.


Well generally speaking military-wise you need 3:1 when attacking a fortified defended enemy.
However, rule of thumb, if the base has rails/roads around it, you need to surround to cut the city off from resupply. Otherwise you will need to pound the city from the air for weeks/months. Take a city like Rangoon, it has 1 way in, so position all your troops outside Rangoon, and then proceed to pound it by air, eventually the base will be shut down, and easily taken.

Now for tougher targets like China, Canton I believe? It has access roads behind it, and south to Hong kong, so simply bombing it for weeks will slowly kill the base, however it won't be completely dead. long as supplies can get to the city it will be restocked over time. Any way you can move around it, cut it off is your best bet unless you want to brute force it which is total waste of infantry.

I waited Almost 2 years in game to start an assault on Canton, I had 3:1 attacker/defender ratio ready, but no air power so I simply couldn't do anything. Still in my 3rd week of bombarding.

(in reply to dougmichel)
Post #: 2
RE: how much assault value? - 12/26/2009 7:43:56 PM   
dougmichel


Posts: 58
Joined: 4/5/2005
Status: offline 		Does it matter what type of unit you use to block the surrounding hexes?  Can you take an eningeer unit, or a HQ unit and stick them there to shut off the supply lines?

OR

Do you put your entire force outside of the target and wait a period of time to starve them off, then all go in and attack? How long would you lay siege to a city in this type of situation?

< Message edited by dougmichel -- 12/26/2009 7:44:48 PM >

(in reply to Misconduct)
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RE: how much assault value? - 12/26/2009 8:51:00 PM   
Misconduct


Posts: 1864
Joined: 2/18/2009
From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dougmichel

Does it matter what type of unit you use to block the surrounding hexes?  Can you take an eningeer unit, or a HQ unit and stick them there to shut off the supply lines?

OR

Do you put your entire force outside of the target and wait a period of time to starve them off, then all go in and attack? How long would you lay siege to a city in this type of situation?


I would probably suggest an infantry unit, mainly because they can attack if needed, use them to go behind the city on the road, for sieging you want to have all your units attack the city, but use bombardment for weeks/months on end.

With infantry alone, your looking at months to a year. If you bombard a month and get 2:1 then your doing fine, if you however go 0:1 then its time to bombard for longer duration, or use air support for longer period.

Remember moral/fatique comes into play also, so you don't want to be assaulting to often otherwise you simply wear your ground troups out.

You want a wide mixture of units when assaulting cities, Tanks/Artillery and without a doubt Assault Engineers are a MUST. You need the engines to take Fort levels down faster.

In the case of Canton in China, the defending Hex had 90k troops, I had 164k Chinese units with Armor/Engineers to assault. After 3 weeks of air bombarding the AF to 100% damage, I sent in the ground troops to bombard for 2 more weeks, First assault was 5:1, taking Fort from 9 to 5.

(in reply to dougmichel)
Post #: 4
RE: how much assault value? - 12/26/2009 9:42:56 PM   
dougmichel


Posts: 58
Joined: 4/5/2005
Status: offline 		Excellent, thanks for the advice.  One last question, the Japs tried to take Palembung from me (think that is the correct spelling) but I was lucky and had a large surface fleet right there and sunk most of the invasion.  They got parts of 3 units down, including 1 division.  I have had as much as 5 to 1 odds on attacking them, killing very few troops, and they refuse to surrender.  They have about 2000 troops total left in hex.  Will I have to get them down to 0 supply before they surrender, and will I have to maintain a TF outside the port in hex or docked in harbor to prevent supplies from reaching this force?

(in reply to Misconduct)
Post #: 5
RE: how much assault value? - 12/26/2009 11:15:41 PM   
Misconduct


Posts: 1864
Joined: 2/18/2009
From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dougmichel

Excellent, thanks for the advice.  One last question, the Japs tried to take Palembung from me (think that is the correct spelling) but I was lucky and had a large surface fleet right there and sunk most of the invasion.  They got parts of 3 units down, including 1 division.  I have had as much as 5 to 1 odds on attacking them, killing very few troops, and they refuse to surrender.  They have about 2000 troops total left in hex.  Will I have to get them down to 0 supply before they surrender, and will I have to maintain a TF outside the port in hex or docked in harbor to prevent supplies from reaching this force?


Pretty much keep assaulting which uses up their supply until they die off. Yeah typically any airpower, TF will help keep supplies away, the AI doesn't do a good job of running supplies to hurt units, most of them when you start taking bases they ship everything AWAY from the area rather then do anything scripted like attempt to resupply.

Put it this way, I had taken Saipan on 6/12/43 it wasn't till 8/5/43 till I eventually got it, round the clock bombing, TF bombardment and total assault by over 200k troops before 43,000 finally died off. I was amazed they stood out that long.

(in reply to dougmichel)
Post #: 6
RE: how much assault value? - 12/26/2009 11:54:42 PM   
dougmichel


Posts: 58
Joined: 4/5/2005
Status: offline 		I was wondering about ghost supply routes since the port and water part of the hex is not occupied by my ships.  I thought perhaps there was some way they could funnel small amounts of supply like happens over land.  Doesn't sound like that happens, they must bring ships, which they will have a hard time doing with all my air cover and nearby surface ships if they bring a big group.  Guess I will tell the guys to keep pressing :D

Thanks for all your help, I am trying to get some of the parts of the game down I never really had done before, thinking of going for AE soon, if this campaign goes well and I think I learned a good portion of the mechanics, I will go that way.

(in reply to Misconduct)
Post #: 7
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