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minor surrender conditions bug

 
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minor surrender conditions bug - 12/31/2009 2:33:37 AM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Hi all

I think I noticed a minor error in surender conditons. In a game we are playing, Scotland has become a conquored minor of France. However, as a nation at war with France, Scotland does not appear on the list of minor countries that can be selected as a peace condition, while all of France's other minor countries do.

I think this means that conquored home territories of another major country are not appearing on the lists of minors that can be taken as peace conditions.

Has anyone else seen this situation?
DB.

< Message edited by Dancing Bear -- 12/31/2009 2:37:35 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 12/31/2009 1:19:39 PM   
Trax

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 1/29/2008
Status: offline 		Except for GB a nation would need a corps in Scotland to take it from France. Scotland should be on the list of the GB player.

(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 2
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 12/31/2009 7:09:57 PM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Trax, is that right?

Scotland would be a British province, but only a minor conquored nation to France? Or does Scotland become a French province?

(France does receive all its money and manpower, so maybe it is a province).

(in reply to Trax)
Post #: 3
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 12/31/2009 9:17:43 PM   
ndrose

 

Posts: 612
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline 		If France is receiving manpower from Scotland, that would be a bug. It should draw money but not manpower.

(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 4
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 12/31/2009 11:50:06 PM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		I can't tell if France is receiving manpower. The question is should I be able to select Scotland as a regular minor nation to take, or is it treated like a province requiring corps to be present in Scotland?

(in reply to ndrose)
Post #: 5
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 1/1/2010 12:37:54 AM   
ereiser

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 11/27/2008
Status: offline 		I'm the France in the game DB is talking about.  I am not recieving the manpower for Scotland, just the money. 

I believe that because Scotland is a province of GB, anyone else trying to take it must have a corps in it, or the province in question must be adjacent to the MP's home nation (impossible for anyone except GB in this case).

ER

(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 6
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 1/4/2010 2:30:45 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Scotland is a major province of GB so you should be collecting money only!


_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to ereiser)
Post #: 7
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 1/5/2010 12:31:17 AM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		The question is, once Scotland becomes a conquored minor of France, should a third party (Prussia) require a corps in Scotland to select it as a peace condition, or should it be like anyother minor country and appear on the list of minors that can be taken even if there are no corps present?

< Message edited by Dancing Bear -- 1/5/2010 12:32:24 AM >

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 8
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 1/5/2010 2:34:36 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		It would not be treated as a minor so you would need to have adjacent friendly territory OR a friendly unbesieged corps present.

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 9
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 2/20/2010 10:31:27 PM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		This selected ceded major powers provinces controlled by new major power (i.e. Scotland controlled byFrance example). The rules are not clear, they state that Scotland conquored by France (as a peace condition) should be treated "exactly as if it were a conquored minor country", i.e. it should appear on the list of minors to be selected as a peace condition, even if the victor does not have forces in it (rule 13.3.2 in the matrix game or 10.2.2 in the original board game rule book).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

It would not be treated as a minor so you would need to have adjacent friendly territory OR a friendly unbesieged corps present.


(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 10
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 2/22/2010 10:17:45 AM   
delatbabel


Posts: 1252
Joined: 7/30/2006
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dancing Bear

This selected ceded major powers provinces controlled by new major power (i.e. Scotland controlled byFrance example). The rules are not clear, they state that Scotland conquored by France (as a peace condition) should be treated "exactly as if it were a conquored minor country", i.e. it should appear on the list of minors to be selected as a peace condition, even if the victor does not have forces in it (rule 13.3.2 in the matrix game or 10.2.2 in the original board game rule book).


The rule you quote refers to conquest. So, for example, Russia (if at war with France) could land a corps in Edinburgh and conquer Scotland from the French. It would then become a ceded province belonging to Russia. In terms of ceding as part of a victory condition, a province is a province is a province and therefore to gain it by ceding you need to have corps present or it needs to be adjacent to your territory.


_____________________________

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Del

(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 11
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 2/23/2010 2:09:47 AM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Is there a seperate rule for peace conditions? How do they distinguish between the two for peace terms?

(in reply to delatbabel)
Post #: 12
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 2/23/2010 5:54:24 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		Isn't a ceded province considered a minor country? I'm pretty sure that's right, so a province is only a province if owned by the orig player.

(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 13
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 2/24/2010 1:05:42 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		I believe Neverman is correct here.


_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 14
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 2/25/2010 2:06:30 AM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		In which case, if a province captured during a peace is a minor country, then it should be available to be taken as a peace condition from the conquorer in a later war by another power, whether or not that power has corps are present in minor country/province.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

I believe Neverman is correct here.




< Message edited by Dancing Bear -- 2/25/2010 2:07:36 AM >

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 15
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 2/25/2010 1:43:41 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Aha! Should a conquered MP prov be available as a minor? A std MP prov must be adjacent to friendly territory or have a friendly corps present! BUT should a conquered MP prov go under the same requirements???



_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 16
RE: minor surrender conditions bug - 2/26/2010 3:19:11 AM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Aha! Should a conquered MP prov be available as a minor? A std MP prov must be adjacent to friendly territory or have a friendly corps present! BUT should a conquered MP prov go under the same requirements???




That is the question. The rules indicate for conquest that a conquored MP prov should be treated as a minor country, so presumably it is the same for peace conditions. (rule 13.3.2 in the matrix game or 10.2.2 in the original board game rule book).

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 17
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