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Fite - pioniers guesses - 1/6/2010 10:16:08 AM   
pionier

 

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Hello everybody,

this supposed to help people starting fite to get a long and good game.

First: The game will only continue when you and your opponment have fun, abuse will destroy everygame by time.
Second: Turn on the log!
Third: watch the dam replay as axis player from turn 1 onwards, russian should watch when rcons tarts to increase.

requirments for both sides:

you may agree on several additional houserules
- take you time for the job
- maybe no movement in enemy territory when tanks, mechanised, get to 1% supply (inforce from 1. august 1942 and out of force durning offensive for both sides)
- attack with ingore loss when over 50% supply, and with minimise looses when your supply is under 20% (inforce from 1. august 1942 and out of force durning offensive for both sides)
- only airborne use once in 6 month, Brandenburger once in three month per unit.
- only invade when it is loigcal, for exampel as axis not in the artic see to archanglesk.
- stop sourrding units with small size counters - this is totally unrealistic
=> Soviet Divisions should be sourrounded by 6 german regiments. I've seen game ends because player used the divide function of the game and paradropped one part beyond soviet division at the krim entrence. 9 soviet divisions couldn't fall back and where destroyed. The soviet player quit.
- both of you should write an aar for everyturn you made, this keeps you intouch with the game
- do not read the aar of your opponment
- do not start to make the new turn before your wrote the aar for the turn bevor.

german:

- the more experienced player should play this part
- you've got to think about your strategie, and again take you time
- use your airplanes they are very cool and very important, you can check the destroying effect of this units in the log. interdicting is a killing for every axis unit and soviet till you will loose control of the sky.
- keep your formations togehter
- do not use Korps, Army and the OKH HQs in the frontline, they have no use in fite but still it looks so uncool using them as frontline units to attack. for me I have them at airfields to support defending them.
- it is absolutly nessesary to get atleast 14 5% and 1 10% production citys
- do not focus on Leningrad, there is no reasion for this city, it is a good gameball for the german. You've got to make sure that it is you who can decide where you want with case blue. Without Leningrad the soviet player has only to defend moskau and the south...
- destroy the soviet airforce.
- ...

soviet:

-destroy every brigde
-sacarfice units
-be hard, you will feel losing the war, but you never can loose it. This is the reely only opportunity for the german to beat you.
-kill german fast units, when he feels to free.
-notice when the german abuses the engine you can do it better in the mid till late game, you even can take out the finns bevor oktober 1941. the german player can nothing do against it if he doesn't thought about this.

This is how i think an axis first turn should look like when it is more or less good. time: 9 hours (later turns are up to 2-3 hours)



with this rules and thoughts I made it to get this situation in early 1942, the russian player still got holes in the front he must fill. Of course he did mistakes some more then I did since I'm the more experienced player. But netherless i can not win this war.



And for the axis destroy the VVS old planes... there are 38 counter whith old planes which will dissappear after they are all gone. this 38 counter do also have modern planes like IL2 and LaGG / Yak. while destroying the planes the units won't reconstruct. This is in the word dokument!

as for my game:



best regards

pionier



< Message edited by pionier -- 1/6/2010 10:18:01 AM >
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RE: Fite - pioniers guesses - 1/6/2010 4:52:30 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pionier

- stop sourrding units with small size counters - this is totally unrealistic
=> Soviet Divisions should be sourrounded by 6 german regiments. I've seen game ends because player used the divide function of the game and paradropped one part beyond soviet division at the krim entrence. 9 soviet divisions couldn't fall back and where destroyed. The soviet player quit.


That's insane. Why should a battered Soviet division of, say, 4,000 men require two German divisions (say 30,000 men) to contain it?

Let the German player use battalions- and the Soviet can try to break out if he likes. In your example this is clearly what should have been done- goodbye paratroops.

quote:

- both of you should write an aar for everyturn you made, this keeps you intouch with the game


Generally good advice for any match. Writing an AAR forces the player to ask "Why the hell am I making this attack?"

quote:

- do not use Korps, Army and the OKH HQs in the frontline, they have no use in fite


If they're co-operative with other German units then they should be able to give the usual HQ supply boost.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 1/6/2010 4:53:28 PM >


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RE: Fite - pioniers guesses - 1/6/2010 7:01:04 PM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


If they're co-operative with other German units then they should be able to give the usual HQ supply boost.


If this is like many other scenarios that I've seen, there probably are gratuitous HQ's whose only use is misuse.


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RE: Fite - pioniers guesses - 1/6/2010 7:35:37 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

If this is like many other scenarios that I've seen, there probably are gratuitous HQ's whose only use is misuse.


Well yes and no. If one's forces are widely dispersed- and here they may well be- then the supply bonus can be worth having. Also as I recall the Corps HQs have no fighting equipment to speak of so can't easily be used in any other role.

However they really don't add to the scenario and just clog up the map uselessly. The corps and army artillery units should really be built into them as is done with the divisions.


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RE: Fite - pioniers guesses - 1/6/2010 8:04:18 PM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

Also as I recall the Corps HQs have no fighting equipment to speak of so can't easily be used in any other role.


Light cavalry! That's what I used them for in one scenario. They can reconnoiter secondary axes of advance, convert hexes, close pockets...all kinds of uses. Reichsmarschall Goering leads from the front!

After all, what else are you supposed to do with an 'air fleet headquarters'? It won't affect the resupply of anything, so there's no actual point to moving it anywhere unless we're playing diorama.

Leave it sitting idle where it appeared? Disband it? That last is probably the most rational solution that isn't egregiously gamey -- but in that case, why have the unit in the first place?


< Message edited by ColinWright -- 1/6/2010 8:15:10 PM >


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RE: Fite - pioniers guesses - 1/6/2010 9:05:45 PM   
Karri

 

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Yeah, for me they run around repairing bridges, encircling partisans and converting hexes. Not quite what they really existed for...but it's a game and they do what they are useful at.

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RE: Fite - pioniers guesses - 1/7/2010 12:00:27 AM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri

Yeah, for me they run around repairing bridges, encircling partisans and converting hexes. Not quite what they really existed for...but it's a game and they do what they are useful at.


That's more or less the way I felt when I encountered the phenomenon. I'll veer away from gamey tactics myself -- but if you give me a unit whose only conceivable use is misuse...


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RE: Fite - pioniers guesses - 1/7/2010 12:59:02 AM   
Panama


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I think there should be a Hitler unit that's required to move within a few hexes of the front a few times during the game. :)

If the Soviets find it and kill it the game is over.

There is no way the corp, army or group hq would be running around the battlefield all by itself fixing bridges. Generals just didn't do that sort of thing. That's what the forced labor is for. The union wouldn't allow it.

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RE: Fite - pioniers guesses - 10/13/2010 6:31:44 PM   
larryfulkerson


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I have found out that the changes to version 3.4 has changed the way I use my engineers ( pioneers ) and my railroad fixers.  After moving, under version 3.2, the engineer unit can use it's full engineering capability to fix the bridge/railroad but under version 3.4 the ability is prorated for how much the unit has moved before the "fixing" attempt is executed and the result is that the unit cannot "fix" the bridge/railroad in the same turn it has moved.  So I move the unit to the hex it needs to be in, make the "fix" attempt, which more often than not doesn't "fix" the bridge/railroad, and then the NEXT turn, without moving the unit, the "fix" attempt is executed and this time the full engineering ability is used in the attempt.  I find that I have to "spread-out" the engineering units to the "broken" hexes and NOT just pile on engineering units into one hex attempting to "fix" it with each one.  Also, this 3.4 change has made the fixing of railroad hexes a little slower than the 3.2 version. 

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RE: Fite - pioniers guesses - 10/13/2010 7:49:36 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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Gents,

as one of you noticed, it's a game and there are houserules, no? Alas, being not a monster gamer (I played through most of Rob Kunz fab scenarios multiple times though..), I still think, that one should be able to use HQs for the tasks mentioned (not in an ACTIVE, offensive role, unless perhaps Japanese HQs?!). If one is not happy with those rear-echolon HQs (like the druggie Goering HQ), well... give it a low movement allowance! It still can be moved via rail and air transport (NO paradrops though!)and certainly won't be a real offensive asset.

My personal opinion about monster scenarios like FITe etc. -> Division (or corps for the USSR) size uints (excpetions, of course, of course), HQs at corps level with the Corps artillery included. As for the Pz Div (or Mech Corps for the USSR), the corps artillery at the corps HQ or as separate corps Arty unit, but the Div itself as 3-Reg setup. Aufkl. Abteilung distributed either through the 3 Regs or part of the Pz Reg.

Haven't played FITE yet, so please accept my remarks as a mere suggestions. In general, the "Panzergruppe Guderian" board game scale approach seems to a good compromise.



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RE: Fite - pioniers guesses - 10/17/2010 8:10:31 PM   
ColinWright

 

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As a note to all this, bear in mind a formation doesn't have to have an HQ. In fact, in some cases, (air fleets, for example), there's no good reason to have one at all.

There's even a positive argument for omitting HQ's. HQ's confer a supply bonus on adjacent, cooperative units -- and as such, help to simulate schwerepunkts and so on. If you have so many HQ's that everyone can have a cooperative HQ next door, you've effectively reduced the ability to emphasize any one particular line of attack. The net effect is simply a universally higher effective supply stockpile.

Personally, I like putting the artillery in HQ's as much as possible. This prevents the artillery from being broken up to serve as unrealistic pocket closers, helps to discourage using the HQ's as light cavalry, and generally puts the HQ's about where they should be -- in the immediate rear of major battles.

I don't put engineers, assault guns, 88's, etc in HQ's, as this virtually forces unrealistic play.


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