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Newby Q - 1/10/2010 11:58:39 PM   
SpeakerToSeafood

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/10/2010
From: Uranus
Status: offline 		Am a rank newby. Don't want to step on anything important. Just got the game. See there are many places where it does not work. Is there somewhere these game breakers are collected? Did I spend money for a mistake? It is alright if I did, because it could still be fun, but it seems the players do not think the game is what it is supposed to be. Is it really as bad as everybody says?
Post #: 1
RE: Newby Q - 1/11/2010 12:21:44 AM   
Ghertz

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 7/22/2009
From: Detroit, MI
Status: offline 		It is a great game. 
There are complaints from "purists" who desire a game where nothing is allowed to happen that didn't actually happen.
There are complaints from "non-purists" who desire a game where more things would be allowed that didn't actually happen.
There are complaints form those who desire to have ever more micro-management.
There are complaints from those who are finding themselves overwhelmed with how much micro-management one has to do.
The majority of those who are playing the game are enjoying a really well designed game.

(in reply to SpeakerToSeafood)
Post #: 2
RE: Newby Q - 1/11/2010 12:36:02 AM   
SpeakerToSeafood

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/10/2010
From: Uranus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ghertz

It is a great game. 
There are complaints from "purists" who desire a game where nothing is allowed to happen that didn't actually happen.
There are complaints from "non-purists" who desire a game where more things would be allowed that didn't actually happen.
There are complaints form those who desire to have ever more micro-management.
There are complaints from those who are finding themselves overwhelmed with how much micro-management one has to do.
The majority of those who are playing the game are enjoying a really well designed game.

I always thought it was a great well designed game from what I could see from the beginning. That is why I bought it. But it does seem now that there are whole areas of the game that are so broken to make it unplayable. I am very confused. Just who should I believe? So many people with their own powerful opinions. What is a newby to do?

(in reply to Ghertz)
Post #: 3
RE: Newby Q - 1/11/2010 12:46:19 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Delve in and enjoy the game. There really is nothing out there that is so broken as to make the game unplayable.

If you're going to play against the AI, the vast majority of the complaints (about a "broken game") you have seen will not be applicable to your game. If you're going to play PBEM, it always helps to discuss carefully with any prospective opponent what kind of game experience you both are interested in. An "historically oriented" player is not going to enjoy a game against a "game mechanics exploiter" - and vice-versa.


_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to SpeakerToSeafood)
Post #: 4
RE: Newby Q - 1/11/2010 12:53:20 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpeakerToSeafood

But it does seem now that there are whole areas of the game that are so broken to make it unplayable.


It ain't so - not by a mile. There might be a place or two where scale can cause strangeness, but really you will not run into that in an AI game. As far as PBM goes, get an opponent who is looking for a good contest on the up and up and you also will not run int 'gaminess' problems. participate in the forums and you will be up to date on issues that are identified, how to avoid them, and how/when they get fixed.

Be unafraid, newby!


(in reply to SpeakerToSeafood)
Post #: 5
RE: Newby Q - 1/11/2010 12:55:20 AM   
DS Kee

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 7/13/2002
From: McCordsville, IN USA
Status: offline 		I don't normally speak up on the forums. I tend to lurk, read and learn from the more verbose grognards. C'mon, these guys will debate that the orange for the Dutch units is the wrong shade. Sometimes the arguments will get heated. This is an active, interested playerbase. Take everything you read here with a grain of salt.

If you are looking for an immersive, detailed game, you have spent well. Is the game perfect? No. Is the game good? Yes. Is the game great? Borderline, but I have faith in the devs. I am personally most concerned with the CD defense issue brought out in another thread about the invasion of Pearl Harbor. With proper feedback from the playerbase, they will make the appropriate updates.

My advice? Start playing the game. I have yet to get much past the end of December, 1941. If you have the time, talk to some of the PBEM crowd and play a scenario. I wish that I had the time to play PBEM. I can easily see that this where our game shines.

If you were looking for eye candy and massive 3D effects of ship explosions, well,um.....

Regards, W2k

Wow. Joined date, 7/2002. I've overused my annual post quota. Down scope, rig for silent running.


< Message edited by Warlord2k -- 1/11/2010 1:01:37 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to SpeakerToSeafood)
Post #: 6
RE: Newby Q - 1/11/2010 1:10:42 AM   
SpeakerToSeafood

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 1/10/2010
From: Uranus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Delve in and enjoy the game. There really is nothing out there that is so broken as to make the game unplayable.

If you're going to play against the AI, the vast majority of the complaints (about a "broken game") you have seen will not be applicable to your game. If you're going to play PBEM, it always helps to discuss carefully with any prospective opponent what kind of game experience you both are interested in. An "historically oriented" player is not going to enjoy a game against a "game mechanics exploiter" - and vice-versa.


There are some of us here at JPL that would like to play at a nice reasonably historical game. I am not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling that this is possible. It seems that everything is bound up in personally directed conclusions. I would not mind hearing the truth, no matter how ugly, but just who do I believe? Sorry to keep harping on the same question, but it is the real question yes.

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 7
RE: Newby Q - 1/11/2010 1:19:24 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Historical capabilities has been a tenet of the game. If you play in a manner compatible with history (and I do not mean replicating history) then what you seek is most attainable. The trouble will come in if

a) one player wants to go gaming the game engine for advantages,

or

b) you are so far off the historical capabilities track that you 'break something', aka run into game engine limitations. This can be dealt with by the players, and is always used as input by the developers for consideration of changes in the code.

In case you haven't previously come upon this fact, WITP-AE was developed from WITP by volunteers. That's right - a large team of volunteers. I hope you see that as an indication that they are committed to 'getting it right'.

Which is also the reason you see patches that both fix outright bugs and that make changes to further the end of 'getting it right'.


(in reply to SpeakerToSeafood)
Post #: 8
RE: Newby Q - 1/11/2010 7:59:28 AM   
fflaguna

 

Posts: 295
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline 		I wasn't sure whether to buy this game, and the price was only a small factor... but having purchased it, I'm in love with it. It's complicated, but comes with a manual describing all features, etc.

It's historical. It's that simple. You may have heard of the Hearts of Iron games... they are nothing compared to this. Do not let the simplistic interface get to you. This is a great game. :)

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 9
RE: Newby Q - 1/11/2010 3:33:43 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline
quote:

There are some of us here at JPL that would like to play at a nice reasonably historical game. I am not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling that this is possible.

It's not only possible, it routinely develops that way. Have you read any of the AARs? The vast majority are very historically plausible. You don't see Japan routinely conquering San Diego or Delhi, nor do you see the USS Enterprise single-handedly defeating the Emperor with photon torpedoes.

Sure there are things that can get out of whack, particularly with two clever players in PBEM. And if instead you play against the AI, the AI (like any wargame AI) isn't as smart as a human. But the two sentences I just wrote will always apply to any computer game given the state of AI and computer science in the early 21st century.

Just play the game and enjoy it.

_____________________________


(in reply to fflaguna)
Post #: 10
RE: Newby Q - 1/11/2010 7:18:25 PM   
Rainer

 

Posts: 1210
Joined: 11/21/2000
From: Neuching, Bavaria, Germany
Status: offline 		Don't be afraid to get yout feet wet.
Jump right in.
If new to WitP/AE probably try a smaller scenarion first (some think GC is fine for starters).

Read the forum messages and After Action Reports (AAR) but try to understand that different people have different views.
The game is not broken by any stretch of imagination.
There had been, are, and will be for some time a couple of "quirks". There is a team of highly qualified and even higher determined volunteers (yes, volunteers) working to iron out those quirks (data base issues for instance).
None of these quirks will prevent you from playing the game and learning the ropes.

Get your feet wet.
Jump right in.
Good luck.

PS: Please ask not whom you can or will believe. You're the only arbiter..

(in reply to SpeakerToSeafood)
Post #: 11
RE: Newby Q - 1/11/2010 7:37:50 PM   
Sheytan


Posts: 863
Joined: 11/28/2006
Status: offline 		Is what really as bad as players say? If you are referring to the game where precisely do you see a discussion about WITP/AE bieng "bad"? By all means point me at the thread.

What I "do" see discussed is "nuances" of WITP/AE. As far as I can tell a vast majority of folks whom bought AE are quite pleased with the game compared to what has changed from WITP.

The "nuances" discussed, like artillery effectiveness, or potential abuse of the IJ amphibious bonus, etc, are facets of AE. There are facets of the game that do need improvement, no question about that.

Regarding stepping on anyone important...lol. I think its fair to say you can pretty much ask anything you like here about AE, or the PTO for that matter, and can expect to get some sort of helpful reply.
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpeakerToSeafood

Am a rank newby. Don't want to step on anything important. Just got the game. See there are many places where it does not work. Is there somewhere these game breakers are collected? Did I spend money for a mistake? It is alright if I did, because it could still be fun, but it seems the players do not think the game is what it is supposed to be. Is it really as bad as everybody says?



_____________________________


(in reply to SpeakerToSeafood)
Post #: 12
RE: Newby Q - 1/11/2010 8:20:23 PM   
jackyo123

 

Posts: 697
Joined: 2/4/2008
Status: offline 		2 months ago I was a newby. And yes there are some things that don't work 'historically' - but if you didnt know the history, you would not even notice them.

The game is fantastic.

Most whiners here (myself included) are trying to get heard so improvements are made - if the game was crap, I don't think anyone would care enough except to make one post and then move on to something that was challenging, absorbing, and fun. This game meets all three of those criteria.

(in reply to SpeakerToSeafood)
Post #: 13
RE: Newby Q - 1/11/2010 11:21:47 PM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		No game breakers for me.  Just little nitpicks to make it even more perfect.

_____________________________

My Blog
Random Wargame Name Generator

(in reply to jackyo123)
Post #: 14
RE: Newby Q - 1/12/2010 1:19:44 AM   
fbs

 

Posts: 1048
Joined: 12/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SpeakerToSeafood

Am a rank newby. Don't want to step on anything important. Just got the game. See there are many places where it does not work. Is there somewhere these game breakers are collected? Did I spend money for a mistake? It is alright if I did, because it could still be fun, but it seems the players do not think the game is what it is supposed to be. Is it really as bad as everybody says?




Nah, it's more like a fight between those that prefer blondes and those that prefer brunettes. Like, multiplied by 10. If one pays too much attention to that one may think nobody enjoys them ladies, when fact is everybody loves them.

But... oh man... I was joking when I wrote that, but now that I think of it, some discussions around here are like "I prefer Yamato-class battleships!" -- "Nonsense, Iowa-class battleships are more beautiful!"... what crowd did I get into, oh my...


Cheers
fbs

ps: for the record, both are wrong: Bismarck-class battleships for the win!

(in reply to SpeakerToSeafood)
Post #: 15
RE: Newby Q - 1/12/2010 3:15:06 AM   
pmelheck1

 

Posts: 610
Joined: 4/3/2003
From: Alabama
Status: offline 		Enjoy the game.

Some of the talk on the boards isn't complaining as such but only folks putting forth ideas as to how the game might be improved.  I'd say most of the folks who are voicing their options for game improvements are still enjoying the game.  I for one voiced my thoughts not as a complaint but to try and help improve the program, something matrix has an awesome track record of.  I didn't know if any of my suggestions would be implemented but if I didn't ask there was zero chance.

This is the only program I has always left installed.  If I had to pick only one computer game to take with me on a trip this would be it.  It was the first program installed on my wife's new laptop even before she installed anything.

Oh please don't name the German battleship starting with "B" - Been some VERY heated threads concerning that ship


< Message edited by mullk -- 1/12/2010 3:16:15 AM >

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Post #: 16
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