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Play by mail road map - 1/16/2010 4:22:19 PM   
Ashtar

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline
Hi everyone, here I am trying to regroup a list of the features/bug which are missing for a better PBM
experience. No rule variations outside the EIA canon will be discussed here, neither rule deviations
which Marshall already pointed out cannot be amended (such as the lack of proper combined movement features).

As a general note, it is my opinion that we are much closer now than some months ago to a playable
PBM platform. However, I think that only by fixing this last issues (or at least the critical A ones plus the B speed ones) will grant us the definitive pbm EIA experience.

In list A I describe rule deviations/bugs. They can be "player amendable", meaning that by a combination
of host editing and house rule one can recover original EIA rules, or "critical", meaning that they
cannot edited by players.

A.1. CRITICAL - Better host game editor.
Currently, the host can only change money and political points in game. Some deviations/bug may be amended by players this way but not all of them. It will be useful to let the game host also edit (in decreasing importance order): a) manpower b) victory points c) minor states control flags d) single corps/fleet composition e) single corps placement.
This should not be too difficult to code, and it should allow the game host to solve 99% of bugs/game deviation may arise during the game. Let it also edit corps morale and leaders stats and it will be possible to implement the beautiful alternate dominant powers rules (see 11.8 from here http://eia.xnetz.com/rules/eiarules-with-errata.html)

A.2. CRITICAL - Allow standing orders to be issued to your corps also in the land phase.
Currently orders may be given only during the reinforcement phase, but a lot may happen during the land phase to call for a change of orders
to that lonely corps. And lonely corps with no or wrong orders are cannon fodder.

A.3. CRITICAL - Reinforcing single corps
Add a further order you can issue to single corps: ask/do not ask for reinforces. Currently, single corps cannnot ask for reinforces from nearby friendly stacks, and this is yet another serious limitation with respect to EIA.

A.4. CRITICAL - Toggle on/off single corps auto combat
Even better, a) add a new game option to toggle on/off automatic combat for single defending corps
during the game: it is surely a game saver when major powers fight poor minors, but can create seriously
game unbalances when big wars are fought (I have seen France lost all his fleet bottled in Amsterdam since the single corp defending the city did not ask the reinforcement of the entire Grand Armee nearby located).

A 5. CRITICAL - New Political combinations
Some political combinations are missing, such as the Kingdom of Italy and the Kingdom of Westphalia. Moreover, it should be possible to later add new territories to new political combinations. In the case of the Ottoman Empire and Confederation of the Rhine this is compulsory in the board game.

A.6. CRITICAL - Naval Pursuit
Naval pursuit rules should be added (see 6.3.5 from here http://eia.xnetz.com/rules/eiarules-with-errata.html)

A.7. CRITICAL - Austrian insurrection corps I
The Austrian insurrection corps are bugged, that is actually they are not made available after
being activated by an invading force.

A.8. PLAYER AMENDABLE - Austrian insurrection corps II
Moreover, the way the Austrian insurrection corps rule is implemented is slightly wrong: currently, only the first corp entering the triggering zone is stopped, while the other may subsequently march through the same zone and continue moving. This is quite different in spirit from the original EIA rule in which the Austrian player could chose place the insurrection corp to block the entire invasion army. This way there is
no way to delay by one month the taking of Vienna by a multy corp army. Of course this could be fixed by an ad hoc house rule.

A.9 PLAYER AMENDABLE - Political points in naval combats.
Being EIANW fleets approx the half of EIA ones, only 1/2
pp per fleet should be given for naval combats. This can be player fixed via the editor.

A.10 PLAYER AMENDABLE - Automatic blockade box to port movement.
Fleet automatically move from blockade box to port when the city is taken. This does not happen in EIA. As a consequence, in EIANW the attacking forces can be evacuated one months earlier then in EIA (advantage for GB).
This has to be fixed, although also an ad hoc house rule can fix the problem.

A.10 PLAYER AMENDABLE - Dardanellis control rule is missing

A.11 PLAYER AMENDABLE - The forced access rule is missing.
Another compulsory rule (albeit added by errata).

A.12 PLAYER AMENDABLE - No manpower is added to VP to find cowinners at the end of the game

A.13 MINOR - Game Log.
Various wrong/missing informations in the game log. Battles are reported twice but with too few info, France land order is not always announced correctly, the log is generally difficult to read, etc...

A.14 CRITICAL - Leader casualties
Leader casualties is broken: currently, if a casualty occurs, the recipient is not randomly selected between
all present leaders

A.15 PLAYER AMENDABLE - Privateers are broken:
No damage to trade income seem to take place, no matter how many
lights fleet you place on the job. Never tested anti-piracy operations.

A.16 CRITICAL - Garrisoned depots stop movement
Garrisoned depots are stopping enemy corps movement. This is against EIA rules and
offers a pp free cheap way of "screening" which alters game mechanics. Please, fix it
and allow corps to move past.

________

List B is for game speed issues (I am giving for granted the 1.08 improvements), fully copyed by Dancing Bear
proposals:

B.1 - Skipping also ended by answering a call to allies.
All your skipping should be automatically suspended not only when war is declared on you but also when you respond to a call to allies. Not sure it is currently working this way.

B.2 - A land phase skipping.
Skip can be managed by PC such that all unit a) automatically check autoforage b) if not autoforaging check for supply c) if not a or b roll for forage. This option can be activated only by a major power at peace.

B.3. Option to delay cav reinforcements a month.

B.4. No file exchange for siege battles.
Currently a long file exchange is needed if a corp plus one garrison (needed for instance to activate port guns)
are present together. It is frankly a waste of time.

B.5. Option which can be selected by the attacker to have battles completed on opponents computer (i.e. no file exchange after the first in which chits are selected, useful for battles where reinforcement and guard commitments are not required, with pre-set pursuit selected): The attacker selects his chit, activate the option and decide if to eventually cav pursuit. He sends the battle file to his opponent with some generic e-mailed infos on how to place non pursuit losses (i.e. like start from militia, then move to minor forces infantry troops and only after do the regular infantry. If attacker breaks take the cav factor from the minor troops). All the first day of the battle is played on the defender pc without further exchanges. If attackers win, pursuit is automatically conducted and the battle file is send back. If defenders win, he choses
about pursuit, sends back the file and the attacker will take pursuit losses as he wishes. This way the battle is done with only one file exchange. Only battles dragging to the second day will require some more exchanges.
Most small to medium size battles can be played this way, while only large ones with guards and or multiple major power corps may require the full (slow) file exchange.

B.6. A button to load ALL turns in your commin folder until your next one
This way I still have to download all turns in my commin folder, but then if I wish I can just open the game after a long series of skips and get to the point with a single button stroke.

B.7 - Zip file support.
Make EIANW automatically generate zipped files and be able to read zipped files. Is this going to happen in 1.08?

Feel free to comment or add what I forgot.






< Message edited by Ashtar -- 1/17/2010 11:41:40 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/16/2010 4:54:41 PM   
Skanvak

 

Posts: 577
Joined: 4/3/2005
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I would add correct implementation of rule 8.7 Civil Disorder and making optional rules for balance of power 11.9.1.1 and 11.9.1.2 as 2 separate optional rules for human player only (may be as a futher option for the AI too, but I really think that rhe AI should not benefit from rules 11.9.1.1 and 11.9.1.2 to allow it to be kick out of the game).

You should add the third party peace negociation option too.

_____________________________


Best regards

Skanvak

(in reply to Ashtar)
Post #: 2
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/16/2010 7:54:26 PM   
Ted1066


Posts: 214
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Status: offline
These are great suggestions/improvements to the game, Ashtar. I would add:
B8 - zip file support. Make EIANW automatically generate zipped files and be able to read zipped files.

Comments:
B4: was this an option in EIA? I didn't think a player had the option to delay cav reinforcements by a month.
B5/B6: anything to minimize file exchanges. I'm not a fan of the current battle system and I really like the idea of simplifying as many of the battles as is possible. For battles where guards are not involved (at least, guards that cannot be committed), these could be fought entirely on the defenders PC with casualties assigned by the attacker at the end. If your attacking force is 50 factors and you take 15 factors over the course of the battle, it does not matter what those factors are during the battle. The only important point is that at the battles conclusion the appropriate losses are assigned (inf for >2.0 morale losses, at least 1cav if your side broke, etc.). Anything to minimize the battle folder bogey man (I'm sure its happened to all of us where we've loaded one of our land phases after a defending battle and we see ghost/misplaced corps because we forgot to remove a battle file).

Cheers,

Ted

(in reply to Skanvak)
Post #: 3
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/16/2010 11:42:44 PM   
Ashtar

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 12/6/2007
Status: offline
I forgot to add the problem of garrisoned depots stopping movement, which of course should not do.

@Ted:
quote:

B8 - zip file support. Make EIANW automatically generate zipped files and be able to read zipped files.

I think Marshall said this is going to come in 1.08. Anyhow I am adding

quote:

B4: was this an option in EIA? I didn't think a player had the option to delay cav reinforcements by a month.

No, but the idea is that by doing so you in peace time you need to play only one reinf out of three and you can skip the rest.

@Skanvak
I think 8.7 and 11.9 can be easily implemented by house rules.
What is the third party peace negociation option?



< Message edited by Ashtar -- 1/16/2010 11:43:09 PM >

(in reply to Ted1066)
Post #: 4
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/17/2010 8:33:49 AM   
gazfun


Posts: 1046
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: Australia
Status: offline
Im in favour of any system that supports a reduction of pressure on the Game Host, especially as regards interpretation of rules. As not what it seems in A1. Players to be a rules lawyer in the above circumstances, is not enjoyable. Although it is acceptable for most players to have a working knowledge of the rules it should also be remembered that a PC game is suppose to relieve all players from this burden not increase it. I hope that this has been kept in mind when making these adjustments.
Therefore not only is it to be in general a good experience for all players to have a trouble free game experience.
But also that a system is suppose to reduce rules issues, which is the nature of a PC game in my view. There are a lot of good features there may I say and I hope that these can be implemented with little probllems.

< Message edited by gazfun -- 1/17/2010 8:45:33 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Ashtar)
Post #: 5
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/17/2010 5:44:46 PM   
Skanvak

 

Posts: 577
Joined: 4/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Skanvak
I think 8.7 and 11.9 can be easily implemented by house rules.
What is the third party peace negociation option?


11.9 can be but 8.7 cannot, 8.7 must be coded hard as it litteraly withdraw a player from the game and change the status of the province.

The third party negotiation option is not my suggestion ; it has been suggested by someone else last year. The idea is to make have the possibility to feed the program the final result of the peace negotiation instead of using present preset posture for the negociation. It would work a bit like the third party combat tool for land combat. This will allow for a more a really negociated peace that will be closer to both party expectation.

_____________________________


Best regards

Skanvak

(in reply to gazfun)
Post #: 6
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/17/2010 6:05:43 PM   
Dancing Bear

 

Posts: 1003
Joined: 2/21/2008
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This is a great list Ashtar. The Marshall might despair, but at least on the up side, there is now an almost complete list, and if you are an optimist, you could say this means there is light at the end of the tunnel (although combined the list might be 53 items long).

I'll add to Ashtar's list with some other items (below). Most of these items are suggestions by others. My list has different coding system from Ashtar's, in which N for naval, EIA to make the game more EIA like, I for interface (mostly from David). They in no particular order.

I will say that with 1.08 coming out, I think we are almost there in terms of having a fun game to play, and these items mostly improvement to what I think will shortly be a good base. I hope Marshall does not take this list as a life long prison term. I think only a minority of the items on the list would need to be done, and this list is mostly to try and be comprehensive, not issue marching orders for the several months.

N-1. Proportional naval losses between ship types and nationalities
N-2. Add the "General" Naval rules with naval chit choices as an option
N-3. Add naval retreat one area possibility (maybe with #20 chit choices for naval battles).

Bug-1. Garrison limits
Bug-2. Straslund movement bug.
Bug-3. Nelson placement bug (he can currently be placed in areas without fleets)
Bug-4. Lux shown as forest, but fights as open space.
Bug-5. Garrison in port not protecting allied ships.

EIA-1. Supply depot limits - (reportedly difficult to code)
EIA-2. Fix Victory conditions, by adding end of game manpower
EIA-3. Move annoucement of French move to start of naval phase (along with GB's annoucement)
EIA-4. Increase to Prussian corps tactical rating in 1810
EIA-5. Add restrictions on territory losses rule
EIA-6. Add trival battles (automatic resolution, no file exchange).
EIA-7. Voluntary fleet scuttling
EIA-8. 2 PP for 20+corps (for Egypt and Syria)
EIA-9. Optional British trainning rule
EIA-10. Napoleon's rating decrease with time
EIA-11. Provide a map with similar (very basic) graphics to original EIA board game (for use with Soapy frog counters)
EIA-12. General Castonos (Spain) should be a B leader not a C leader.

I-1. On the Castle counters for garrison factors, a number on the castle to display the number of garrison factors so you don't have to click on it.
I-2. The ability to mouse hover over your own corps/stack in a territory and get a total of Infantry, Cavalry, Guard, Militia, Artillary etc.
I-3. A Battle log kept so you can scroll through the battles and see exactly what happened, using the battle screen, not the game log. AND/OR add symbol to map that pulls up last screen shot from battle.
I-4. Colour code logs by nation
I-5. Highlight territories that have battles in them, even if you are not involved (not required if battle symbol added -see #3).
I-6. The engine to automate the task of sending out backup files. (Game host seems to do this way too much)
I-7. In the game log add the Money and Manpower Total collected each economic phase by each country.
I-8. In the game log announce the start of each phase, using a different color/text/ or even Bold/dashed line would also be a nice touch.
I-9. Modify the battle screens, both Naval and Land, to show the date, location and game name.
I-10. Add marker on a Depot to signify if it is part of a valid supply or reinforcement chain. Sometimes a supply chain is cut, it would be nice if the supply markers showed say red or green as the background where the depot number is displayed. Also I think everyone should see this info, not just the owner.
I-11. On the Surrender conditions page, have the actual number of ships listed in each fleet. List the corps by name and not by area. This is public knowledge afterall.
I-12. On the Battle Screen, after chits are chosen, have the projected Tables in light grey for the future rounds
I-13. Move the Economic Phase to a single page, maybe something like an excel spreadsheet, that can be done in one page. Have each of your Freestates listed under your country, and a column for each of the types of troops/ships you can buy. Just enter a number in the column of what you want to buy have the totals in a column and then hit accept when you are done. The accept button woudl be for everything, not just your home nation or a single freestate. It shoud also auto deduct from your home nation money and just let you know if you want to spend more than the freestate has available. Then if you don't want it you can change it back.
I-14. Peace and alliance restrictions accessible to all
I-15. Move insurrection placement area button to reinforcement phase
I-16. Corps and fleet viewport show unnecessary slides. Move to second row before moving off screen.
I-17. Show money given by myself to other players
I-18. Add list of standing orders to text report, and show current and max factors
I-19. Add warning if free state economics is missed
I-20. Automate transfers of money to minor states when builds require additional funds




< Message edited by Dancing Bear -- 1/18/2010 12:40:14 AM >

(in reply to Ashtar)
Post #: 7
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/18/2010 4:59:14 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
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From: Dallas
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These are all great issues to look at. I may not hit them all but we can give it a shot. Thank God for update capability huh? LOL!
BTW: The zipping will be in 1.09 for now. I am testing as we speak and most of the coding is done!

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 8
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/18/2010 5:58:18 PM   
Ashtar

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 12/6/2007
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Hi Marshall, thank for the commitment
My humble suggestion is to give higher priority to the "critical issues" of my list and perhaps to the bugs Dancing bear added

quote:

Bug-1. Garrison limits
Bug-2. Straslund movement bug.
Bug-3. Nelson placement bug (he can currently be placed in areas without fleets)
Bug-4. Lux shown as forest, but fights as open space.
Bug-5. Garrison in port not protecting allied ships.


plus some doable speeding issues. That should at least placate us pbm lovers


(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 9
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/18/2010 7:26:04 PM   
Ted1066


Posts: 214
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Status: offline
One other issue that I have recently experienced, and an area of the game that needs to be greatly improved, is the economic aspects of the game, specifically in terms of display of information and access to information. Currently, both are difficult.

The only time a player gets access to meaningful economic numbers is during his eco phase (inc. trade, Amer. trade, minors, etc.) At any other point, the player must rely on the values posted in the upper right corner of the game window - useful, but not detailed enough. Allowing the player to bring up his eco screen AT ANY POINT in the game is 100% necessary.

The second issue of displaying information is one of granularity. It is great to have the computer do all the calculations for income/manpower collection/expense, but only if you can trust what it is calculating. Currently, I do not. The AI is not correctly tallying port trade for GB, as an example (GB gets trade with ALL neutral minors and whatever controlled minors/MP that choose to trade with her). An AI game that I played recently gave $18 as trade to GB in the Mar/05 game turn, when the actual number should have been roughly $35 (this was tallying only the neutral minors and nations that chose to trade with GB). IF the game where to break down income and expenditures into groups (MP by province, MP trade, minors income, minors trade income, Amer. trade, free states for both income and manpower collection; expenditures being corps maint., fleet maint., depot maint.), then it would make a players life substantially easier to understand where their income is coming from and where it is going to.

A simple example of what it could look like would be (I don't have the game/map in front of me, so I can't remember all the names/values):

France Income Totals
Provincial income Income Manpower
Province 1 10 4
Province 2 10 4
Province 3 10 4
Province 4 10 4
Province 5 10 4
Subtotal 50 16
Provincial trade Income
Le Havre 3
St. Malo 3
Rochelle 3
Marseilles 3
Toulon 3
Subtotal 15
Minor income Income Manpower
Minor 1 4 2
Minor 2 4 2
Minor 3 4 2
Minor 4 4 2
Minor 5 4 2
Subtotal 20 10
Minor trade income Income
Minor 2 3
Minor 4 2
Subtotal 5
TOTAL Income Manpower
90 26

Free State Income Manpower
Holland 14 6
Trade 4
Total 18 6
Hanover 8 4
Trade 0
Total 8 4

France Expenditure Totals
Corps Maintenance
Infantry 12
Cavalry 2
Guards 1
Artillery 1
Subtotal 16
Fleet Maintenance
Heavy 4
Light 6
Transport 1
Subtotal 11
Depot Maintenance
Depots 6
Subtotal 6
TOTAL 33

ADDED TO TREASURY 57

There can be a lot of information to list (esp. for France or maybe Russia), but I believe having this level of granularity in the Eco screen serves to ensure that nothing is missed and information is accurate. I want to trust that the EIANW app is accurately tabulating information, but experience has taught me otherwise.

Cheers,

Ted

(in reply to Ashtar)
Post #: 10
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/18/2010 7:35:26 PM   
Ted1066


Posts: 214
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Status: offline
well, that was a waste - I nicely formatted my tables above, but the HTML editor used on this site removed all the spaces. Believe me when I say it looked much prettier than in the above post

Ted

(in reply to Ted1066)
Post #: 11
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/19/2010 3:09:32 AM   
ereiser

 

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Regarding DB's item I-13.  Economic phase page.  I created an excel spreadsheet several years ago for the original boardgame.  It included spaces for free states (from a list of minors, you simply marked 'C' for conquered, 'F' for free state and the form either added the $/mp to your country or placed in the free state space).  You still had to manually input a few items, saved $'s, your trade value, $ changes caused by surrenders, etc.  But worked well otherwise, as you see your running total as you decided on different buys.  I had done a seperate page for each of the MP's.

Seeing no way to attach a file here (unless I'm missing something?), I will post this to Mantis and attach it there so that Marshal can take a look at it sometime.

ER

(in reply to Ted1066)
Post #: 12
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/19/2010 3:34:07 AM   
ereiser

 

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The economic form is on Mantis as Issue #614.  Originally written in 2002, but updated to Excel 2007 on my current computer.  Basic instructions are there also (even the accountant I was playing with at the time figured it out!).

ER

(in reply to ereiser)
Post #: 13
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/19/2010 12:35:20 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
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From: Dallas
Status: offline
I'll take a look (I think I've seen it?). I like this idea and agree that it could be better.


_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to ereiser)
Post #: 14
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/20/2010 1:56:14 AM   
Dancing Bear

 

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I took a look at Eric's economic sheet. It looks good, and would be helpful.

One important bug to add to the list, is the apparent repeating of first day dice rolls on the second day of combat. This seems a very important bug.

< Message edited by Dancing Bear -- 1/20/2010 1:58:59 AM >

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 15
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/20/2010 12:50:06 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline

Yep. This is already doc-ed!


_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to Dancing Bear)
Post #: 16
RE: Play by mail road map - 1/20/2010 9:02:06 PM   
Ted1066


Posts: 214
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Status: offline
ER's spreadsheet is very dense, but exactly the level of detail I'd like to see. Plus, with increased transparency, any bugs/problems become significantly easier to spot.

Cheers,

Ted

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 17
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