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RE: Q-Ball's Monstrous Deed

 
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RE: Q-Ball's Monstrous Deed - 1/10/2010 8:53:01 PM   
fflaguna

 

Posts: 295
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline 		A present for a wonderful thread: Someone's favorite DD in full color. You can find more here: http://blog.livedoor.jp/irootoko_jr/




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RE: Q-Ball's Monstrous Deed - 1/11/2010 4:27:16 AM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline 		A marvelous piece of work! But it would go better in Cuttlefish's other AAR, "Lives for the Emperor".

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Post #: 422
RE: Q-Ball's Monstrous Deed - 1/11/2010 11:24:57 AM   
fflaguna

 

Posts: 295
Joined: 12/29/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock

A marvelous piece of work! But it would go better in Cuttlefish's other AAR, "Lives for the Emperor".


Reopening old wounds? :)

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Post #: 423
RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/11/2010 3:19:12 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

The early Tojo and Tony are worse than the Oscar II in my opinion. All you get is an extra pair of 7.7mm guns and a higher top speed at the expense of greatly reduced range and manouverability. Until the later versions appear in mid/late 43 I will be sticking with the Oscar.


This may well be true. I think I will go ahead, though, and upgrade at least one unit and test them in combat before I decide. The Oscar is a good plane in AE but with that gun value of 6 they sometimes resemble a swarm of moths trying to bite something to death.

Of course, the Japanese have been known to come up with some mighty big moths...






I'm pretty sure that moths do not have mouthparts capable of biting...

True. (I was an entomologist in a former life.)

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Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 424
RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/12/2010 4:49:10 PM   
ckammp

 

Posts: 756
Joined: 5/30/2009
From: Rear Area training facility
Status: offline 		Bump.

And Mothra can, in fact, bite.

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Post #: 425
RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/12/2010 8:04:15 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ckammp

Bump.

And Mothra can, in fact, bite.

I thought Mothra had some sort of sonic wave attack coupled with wing downdrafts that blew Godzilla off its feet?

ETA: Please see attached. Once again, Mothra doesn't bite, but looks as though her larvae are dishing out a can of whoop a**.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bhoWfC1L9k

ETA II: What a lame-o enemy for Godzilla. Bring on Rodan or Monster X, for goodness sake.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 1/12/2010 8:11:39 PM >

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RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/12/2010 8:11:10 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		I think some people know too much about this subject . . .

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Post #: 427
RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/12/2010 11:02:49 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		Okay, moths can't bite. Understood. I guess Oscars can't be like moths, then, because they no longer suck in AE...


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Post #: 428
RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/12/2010 11:04:08 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Can we change the topic to the proboscis?

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Post #: 429
RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/12/2010 11:07:35 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		The large ground organization of modern air force is its Achilles’ heel.
- B.H. Liddell Hart: Thoughts on War, 1943

10/19/1942 – 10/28/1942

Much has happened since I last had a chance to update this. The focus of the war remains in the Timor area but there have been developments in Burma and China as well.

In Timor the situation, broadly speaking, is unchanged. Q-Ball’s forces have invaded Lautem but have so far been unable to take the base. My efforts to draw him into a carrier battle on my terms have been unsuccessful and so I have been concentrating on what seems to be his weak point in the area, his fighters. Meanwhile he is expanding facilities at captured bases and is no doubt contemplating his next step.

After my carriers attacked some of his tankers off Australia his own carriers lunged out of the Sulu Sea into the southern reaches of the Java Sea. I had anticipated this and had made sure my own shipping had cleared the area but he caught some of my warships that were too slow moving up the Makassar Strait and sank CA Mogami and DD Murasame. The loss of Mogami marked the sinking of first Japanese capital ship of the war.

My carriers moved back to within strike range of his base at Waingapu. He launched an air strike from there that cost him about 10 Kittyhawks and 35 Dauntlesses for no gain at all, then, when my carriers pulled back a little, sent an xAK out to see if they were still there. They were, the AK was lost, and my carriers remained in position for a turn to see if Q-Ball wanted to give battle. He declined so they returned to Soerabaja to refuel.

Meanwhile Allied heavy bombers raided Ambon. The first attack cost him 10 or 11 of the escorting P-38s. The second attack came in unescorted and he lost about 6 heavies. After that the attacks stopped. That’s when my own bombers at Ambon, who I had tried for several turns to persuade to attack his invasion force at Lautem, finally struck. Unfortunately most of the Zeros didn’t fly and the ones that did lost contact with the raid and turned back. I lost over two dozen Bettys to no result. Ouch. The fighters were set to the same altitude and everything, but sometimes even if you set everything correctly things go wrong. Fortunes of war and all that.

Since then Japanese fighters have swept both Waingapu and Koepang, shooting down about 26 fighters for a loss of 10 planes. The P-38s seem to have disappeared and the defense right now is being borne by Kittyhawks, Wildcats, and Hurricanes. I have ordered more sweeps and a bombing run at Waingapu, hoping to erode his air power in the area further.

Makassar has quickly become a viable Japanese air base and ground troops have reinforced all major Japanese bases in the area. Lately I have begun to eye the two unoccupied bases on the southeastern coast of Borneo, Sampit and Bandjermasin, with concern. If Q-Ball is able to advance again capturing one or both of these bases would put me in a bad position. I need more find some more troops somewhere to cover these bases. Too many bases, not enough units, that’s a major Japanese theme in AE.

Burma: some bad news here, as the Japanese 56th regiment was attacked and wiped out near Myitkyina. This event puzzled both Q-Ball and I. We have seen the tattered remnants of Dutch and Chinese units survive odds of 200 to 1 and then set off across several hundred miles of hostile territory in retreat. Why a Japanese regiment that still had some fight left in it would be annihilated by a 37 to 1 odds attack is a mystery.

Otherwise the situation in Burma has stabilized for the moment. He is sending troops around to Lashio but I have been able to reinforce there and I think he will be thwarted if he attacks.

China: the “sausage grinder” continues to grind away south of Changsa. Meanwhile Japanese troops (four divisions, engineers, and six artillery units) have moved into Liuchow and begun bombarding the sizeable garrison there while a smaller force has entered Kweilin to block reinforcements. The supply situation in China seems to have finally evened out with the last hotfix and the persistent yellow and red exclamation points over my bases are slowly disappearing.

Shipping News: having identified the patrol zones of Q-Ball’s submarines with some accuracy I have dramatically cut down on sub attacks against my shipping near the Home Islands by the simple expedient of routing all my task forces a little out of their old paths. No doubt Q-Ball with catch onto this before long but for the moment it is a relief to not have daily attacks against my poor merchant ships. One tanker was hit in the Luzon Strait but wonder of wonders the big ship survived the hit and made it to Hong Kong for repairs.

Meanwhile I have observed that it is hard for either side to hit a submarine in deep water, though Allied forces seem to be a bit better at it than Japanese forces (as it should be). Even Allied submarines caught in a hostile port, however, are lucky to escape unscathed. I have pounded a number of Allied subs in my bases lately and might have even sunk one or two, it’s hard to say.

The current situation in southern China:





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RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/14/2010 12:04:54 AM   
BrucePowers


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Joined: 7/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Can we change the topic to the proboscis?


Please don't

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RE: The Death of Famous Men - 1/14/2010 12:35:27 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Can we change the topic to the proboscis?


Please don't

Awww....just when it was getting interesting...

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In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/14/2010 9:08:08 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		Victory will come to the side that outlasts the other.
- Ferdinand Foch: Order during the battle of the Marne, 7 September 1914

---

10/29/1942 – 10/31/1942

Good news and bad around Timor and Flores. We have traded blows though none have been particularly telling. The war in the skies has been fierce and his losses heavy, but this kind of aerial trench warfare will favor the Allies in the end.

On 29 October Zeros from Makassar swept Waingapu, followed by Sallys and Oscars from Soerabaja raiding the airfield there, followed by a KB strike against shipping in the harbor. By the time KB’s bombers showed up his CAP had been swept from the skies and the Vals were unopposed in hitting an APD and three small Dutch APs. It is hard to assess enemy losses; I lost six fighters and six Sallys and put his losses somewhere around 15 fighters.

On 30 October my Bettys at Ambon finally struck to some effect, sinking two xAKLs and two more small Dutch APs at Lautem. A few Allied fighters on LRCAP went down, one Zero was lost.

On 31 October a Japanese destroyer division hit Waingapu in a night attack but were intercepted by four British battleships and escorts. CL Nagara and DD Kawakaze were heavily damaged and sunk the next day by planes from Waingapu (though Zeros did down a couple of Wildcats and a couple of SBDs). Aside from inconsequential hits on the BBs the only damaged ship on the Allied side was DD Jupiter. Japanese bombers from Ambon struck again but scored no hits, though around 5 Allied fighters went down.

Q-Ball then sent about 40 heavies against Ambon and though they were met by two dozen Zeros only one B-17 was shot down. Damage to the airfield was fairly heavy, though no planes were lost on the ground. A lot of the B-17s and B-24s were riddled with bullets, though, so with luck it will be a few days before that kind of force can fly again.

Right now KB is off Makassar covering transport convoys delivering an infantry regiment and supplies to the base there. I have them positioned just out of LBA range. His main force is in the Savu Sea. Both of us, I think, are trying to engineer a carrier battle on favorable terms (i.e, with the help of friendly LBA) and neither of us is succeeding. The situation very much resembles two fencers tapping swords and occasionally feinting but neither committing to an all-out lunge. It’s a fascinating duel, almost unique in my WITP/AE experience.

The harsh reality, though, is that I don’t see any hope of pushing him out of his ill-gotten gains. His LBA in the area was established with more speed that I thought possible – he must have brought a lot of engineers with him, aiming for exactly that. Even if I defeat his carriers now the best I can really hope for is to contain him and prevent him from expanding his bridgehead into the DEI. This would not be a terrible result, but it isn’t idea either. And of course as ’42 gives way to ’43 the fact is that the Allied juggernaut can only be contained for so long.


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Post #: 433
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/15/2010 1:41:30 AM   
InHarmsWay

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 3/13/2008
Status: offline 		Cuttlefish,

From you comment, it sounds like he may be there to stay, what are your plans moving forward long term with oil/fuel. I would expect there is a tradeoff shipping wise between bringing up reinforcement and stripping the DEI of as much resources as possible. Have you "written off" any of the oil / resources bases yet as being too close to the action to risk convoys? and any thoughts on removing oil / fuel from palambang quicker than is usual? I would consider using the tankers to pull oil and rounding up a bunch of AKs to pull fuel. At the same time get as much naval support there as possible to expedite the loading. on the other side of the coin, thoughts on slowing the Japanese economy ( reduced merchant production, etc...) to help stockpile fuel?

Adm Harmasaki

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Post #: 434
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/15/2010 9:34:10 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InHarmsWay

Cuttlefish,

From you comment, it sounds like he may be there to stay, what are your plans moving forward long term with oil/fuel. I would expect there is a tradeoff shipping wise between bringing up reinforcement and stripping the DEI of as much resources as possible. Have you "written off" any of the oil / resources bases yet as being too close to the action to risk convoys? and any thoughts on removing oil / fuel from palambang quicker than is usual? I would consider using the tankers to pull oil and rounding up a bunch of AKs to pull fuel. At the same time get as much naval support there as possible to expedite the loading. on the other side of the coin, thoughts on slowing the Japanese economy ( reduced merchant production, etc...) to help stockpile fuel?

Adm Harmasaki


So far Q-Ball's gains do not pose a threat to any of my existing fuel/oil/resource shipping. The closest base that I am actively shipping fuel out of is Balikpapan and if he gets much closer that will be under threat, though. I am planning on draining much of the fuel there by the simple expedient of using it to refuel KB and the Combined Fleet, when it finally arrives from Japan.

As far as slowing down the Japanese economy, I am in a good position to do so. My losses this game have been relatively light and I don't need to be producing planes and merchant ships full-bore right now. Previous experience has taught me that the time to begin conserving is before the crunch hits, not after, so I have been gradually slowing things down and will continue to do so.



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RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/15/2010 9:37:03 AM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		I had never heard of a battle in which everybody was killed, but this seemed likely to be an exception, as all were going by turns.
- Captain John Kinkaid: Adventures with the Rifle Brigade, 1815

---

11/1/1942 – 11/2/1942

We have fought our first carrier battle. Sort of a carrier battle, anyway. And I sort of won. Or maybe I sort of lost. It was a strange battle.

I kept my carriers next to Makassar while troops unloaded and on 1 November Q-Ball advanced his carriers into the Banda Sea (I think – I never saw them) to give battle. My carriers were attacked in four waves, two of carrier planes and two of land-based aircraft. No Japanese attacks were launched because, as I said, my search pilots must have all decided to take the day off.

On the plus side, however, no attacks meant that I had about 300 Zeros, including the ones based at Makassar, for defense. About half or a bit more of them flew, enough to shred the attacking Allied planes. The results were one-sided, to say the least. I shot down somewhere around 120 planes (the scoreboard said 125, the air losses screen said 131) at a cost of exactly 3 Zeros. Call it 55 bombers, mostly SBDs and a scattering of 2-and-4-engine bombers, plus about 65 fighters, Kittyhawks (the new K model) and Warhawks and Wildcats (mostly) and P-38s. Zounds!

As that was far from all the planes attacking me I took some hits. Kaga took one bomb and is at 20 sys damage. Junyo was hit three times and is at 44 sys/24 float/11 engine damage. These carriers have been detached and sent back to Singapore.

I left the remaining carriers about where they were for the next turn but Q-Ball’s carriers had gone away and the Allied LBA stayed at home. He did capture Lautem, though.

I think that two moderately damaged carriers is a cheap price for that many Allied aircraft. The battle, however, leaves me pondering several things. First, how did all my search planes, both carrier and land-based, miss him? That worries me. Second, it is clear that things are much changed in AE from what they were. I think that in WITP I would have downed even more of his planes, suffered more losses myself, and probably wouldn’t have taken the hits. What I had in this battle was as much of an Uber-CAP as Japan can ever expect to get and still about half of the attacking bombers got through (those SBDs are pretty good at defending themselves from Zeros!).

The last question I have is how many losses does it take before an Allied player feels the pain? Or is there perhaps no level of losses that hurts? I really don’t know what Allied aircraft production looks like in AE in late ‘42. I suspect the pain level probably varies from aircraft model to aircraft model. Pilot quality is another issue as well. All of my front-line Zero and Oscar pilots are highly skilled and based on the results his pilots are considerably less so. If losses like these help drive down the average experience level of his pilots the loss ratio might continue to run in my favor.

One can hope, anyway.

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Post #: 436
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/15/2010 12:28:04 PM   
d0mbo

 

Posts: 592
Joined: 8/21/2009
From: Holland
Status: offline 		Cuttlefish,

At 3 bomb hits that CVL has relatively little damage, considering that CV's could (and would) sink after as little as one hit.

Where these 500lb or 1000lb hits?

3x1000lb of explosives should sink a CVL, i guess.

Bottom line: i think you shouldn't be too downhearted about this result and keep up the good work!


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Post #: 437
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/15/2010 2:35:57 PM   
Panther Bait


Posts: 654
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		From other threads on the forum, SBDs seem to be in short supply, so losing 50 of those must hurt some.

Mike


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Post #: 438
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/15/2010 2:52:54 PM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline 		As far as I know, Allies don't automaticaly get lots of high-experience pilots late in the war in AE, so having carrier squadrons decimated must hurt. These are best Allied starting pilots and they had lots of time to train.

Also, do you intend to fly squadrons from retreating carriers to the local airfields, Cuttlefish?

(in reply to Panther Bait)
Post #: 439
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/15/2010 4:26:18 PM   
Laxplayer

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 8/30/2006
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		It will definitely hurt to lose the planes and pilots, but as long as he didn't go and upgrade squadrons left and right, he probably can accept those losses. The Wildcats (both 3s and 4s) are probably the roughest to replace. Warhawks, particularly the K model, have good replacement rates, so he may be fine with those. Depending on how many SBDs you shot down, and how many USMC DB squadrons he's upgraded to SBD-3s, this could either be a devastating loss that would take months to recover from (since the ability to downgrade USMC DB units to free up SBD-3s is pathetic at best), or... it could have simply emptied his pool.

For comparison's sake, I am currently just entering March 42 in a game I'm in where I have only upgraded maybe one or two USMC DB squadrons to SBD-3s and I am currently at 57 SBD-3's in my pool after 3 months.

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Post #: 440
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/15/2010 7:46:47 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: d0mbo

Cuttlefish,

At 3 bomb hits that CVL has relatively little damage, considering that CV's could (and would) sink after as little as one hit.

Where these 500lb or 1000lb hits?

3x1000lb of explosives should sink a CVL, i guess.

Bottom line: i think you shouldn't be too downhearted about this result and keep up the good work!


The hits were all by 500 lb bombs. It's likely that bigger bombs would have turned poor Junyo into a reef.




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RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/15/2010 8:00:01 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		Good to know about the SBDs. He had lost between 20 and 30 of them a couple of weeks earlier so with maybe 75 shot down in two weeks that might hurt some.

A note about the air battle: all Zero units, carrier and land-based, were at 40% CAP, no other orders. The carrier planes were at an average of 16,000 feet and the land-based planes were at 22,000. All Q-Ball's raids were detected by radar and the initial CAP of a couple dozen planes was augmented to 120 to 180 planes (the number declined as the day went on) by the end of combat.

The combat report from the first attack is a pretty good example of all of them. Note that out of 25 Dauntlesses 14 of them made their attack runs. At least half his dive-bomber losses this round came in the post-attack combat phase.

---

Morning Air attack on TF, near Makassar at 64,106

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 179



Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 17
F4F-4 Wildcat x 20
SBD-2 Dauntless x 11
SBD-3 Dauntless x 14


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 4 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
SBD-2 Dauntless: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 4 destroyed, 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA Mikuma
CV Hiyo

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 5000' *
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless diving from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-2 Dauntless diving from 4000' *
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
253 Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(7 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 22000
Raid is overhead
5 planes vectored on to bombers
Akagi-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 5 on standby, 10 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 49 minutes
14 planes vectored on to bombers
Kaga-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 5 on standby, 10 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 3000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
11 planes vectored on to bombers
Soryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 5 on standby, 11 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 17000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes
16 planes vectored on to bombers
Hiryu-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 5 on standby, 10 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
15 planes vectored on to bombers
Shokaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 5 on standby, 10 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 18000 , scrambling fighters between 11000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 43 minutes
11 planes vectored on to bombers
Zuikaku-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 5 on standby, 11 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
13 planes vectored on to bombers
Ryujo-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 4 on standby, 7 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 13000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 38 minutes
8 planes vectored on to bombers
Junyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 4 on standby, 9 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 21000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 21000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
9 planes vectored on to bombers
Hiyo-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 5 on standby, 10 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
9 planes vectored on to bombers
Shoho-1 with A6M2 Zero (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 7 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 16000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes
10 planes vectored on to bombers
Zuiho-1 with A6M2 Zero (1 airborne, 4 on standby, 7 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 16000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 14000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
9 planes vectored on to bombers



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Post #: 442
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/16/2010 12:07:18 AM   
Laxplayer

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 8/30/2006
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		I notice during that attack run that at least one of his squadrons was made up of SBD-2s which are an earlier, unarmored version of the SBD-3. SBD-2s also have longer range, thus his ability to carry 1000lb bombs for this strike. My guess is that if he's still flying SBD-2s off his CVs, that his pools for SBD-3s is probably fairly deep. But shooting down 50 or more will still put a fairly big dent in it. Even moreso with his DB pilots, unless he's been training them up in the big replacement squadrons that came on a few of his CVEs.

IMO, the Wildcat losses will sting him much more since F4F-3s are no longer being built, and the F4F-4's only replace like 45 a month. That said, once 1/1943 hits, he can start upgrading his F4F-4 USMC fighter squadrons into Corsairs. He can upgrade an entire squadron of 24+ Wildcats even with just 1 Corsair in the pool, if I remember correctly. That will spill a bunch of F4F-4s back into his fighter pool for use on his CVs.

So basically, you have a 2 month window to try and retake those bases!

< Message edited by Laxplayer -- 1/16/2010 12:10:17 AM >

(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 443
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/16/2010 1:14:26 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		The SBDs are a bit thin at this stage of the war but his fighter production should be fine by now. You have to look at it as a whole. Not only does he get 45 wildcats but he is geting P38s as well as a large number of P40ks. More important, Allied aircrat replacement in AE is much more spread around amongs other nations now. When you consider the British planes. Hurricane IIc (35 per mo) Ozzie spits, kittyhawks, NZ kittyhawks, Canadian kittyhawks all together the allied side is getting a nice flow of fighters by Novermber 1942. Corsairs are just going to make it worse. The challenge for the Allies players is to use and rotate all of these national groups so that they can take advantage of this.

Remember now, marine wildcat and corsair squadrons (Japanese carrier capable as well) can be put on a carrier and trained up to fully carrier trained. More so than you, he will have the surplus CVEs to do just this. So he has options.

You really got a lucky air roll that last fight and did a bang up job on him. It happens. He will get some too. The problem is that you have now reached the stage of the game where he can begin to fight attritional battles and grind you down. At least with figthers. The allied bomber force takes a little longer to build up but you know it is coming.....

You both have played a great game so far.

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(in reply to Laxplayer)
Post #: 444
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/16/2010 2:06:41 AM   
princep01

 

Posts: 943
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Cuttlefish says, "All Q-Ball's raids were detected by radar....."???? Really, do you have radar at this stage of the war? I've never played the Japanese, so I just don't know, but I did not think the IJN had radar on their ships at this point.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 445
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/16/2010 3:13:06 AM   
Laxplayer

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 8/30/2006
From: San Diego
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

The SBDs are a bit thin at this stage of the war but his fighter production should be fine by now. You have to look at it as a whole. Not only does he get 45 wildcats but he is geting P38s as well as a large number of P40ks. More important, Allied aircrat replacement in AE is much more spread around amongs other nations now. When you consider the British planes. Hurricane IIc (35 per mo) Ozzie spits, kittyhawks, NZ kittyhawks, Canadian kittyhawks all together the allied side is getting a nice flow of fighters by Novermber 1942. Corsairs are just going to make it worse. The challenge for the Allies players is to use and rotate all of these national groups so that they can take advantage of this.


I was speaking specifically of the CV aircraft. Wildcats will be quite thin after a battle like that, unless he's passed on upgrading many of the USMC fighter sqdns.

Army fighters are far more numerous, with many variations to choose from, particularly the P38s and P40s. I doubt that this recent attrition would be more than just a minor annoyance with regard to land-based fighters.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 446
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/16/2010 5:14:15 PM   
Astarix

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Hampton, Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish

---

11/1/1942 – 11/2/1942

I think that two moderately damaged carriers is a cheap price for that many Allied aircraft. The battle, however, leaves me pondering several things. First, how did all my search planes, both carrier and land-based, miss him? That worries me. Second, it is clear that things are much changed in AE from what they were. I think that in WITP I would have downed even more of his planes, suffered more losses myself, and probably wouldn’t have taken the hits. What I had in this battle was as much of an Uber-CAP as Japan can ever expect to get and still about half of the attacking bombers got through (those SBDs are pretty good at defending themselves from Zeros!).

The last question I have is how many losses does it take before an Allied player feels the pain? Or is there perhaps no level of losses that hurts? I really don’t know what Allied aircraft production looks like in AE in late ‘42. I suspect the pain level probably varies from aircraft model to aircraft model. Pilot quality is another issue as well. All of my front-line Zero and Oscar pilots are highly skilled and based on the results his pilots are considerably less so. If losses like these help drive down the average experience level of his pilots the loss ratio might continue to run in my favor.

One can hope, anyway.



This depends on whether you have inflicted significant losses to his Wildcat and SBD pools prior to this. In January he will begin receiving 30 Corsairs/month, then in April he starts getting 130 Hellcats/month, as well as 45 SBD-5 and 30 SB2-C Helldivers. If this is the first time that he has taken significant USN/USMC losses then he has enough spare plane to get him through to April, at which point, there is going to be an avalanche of high quality Allied aircraft.

Basically you appear, from this series of combats, to have inflicted about 4-6 weeks production worth of losses on his 1942 wildcat pools. But if he hasn't taken any dramatic losses or is willing to withdraw some of his USMC squadrons for 60 day's he has plenty of aircraft laying around. From the looks of things he has been conserving his SBD-3's F4F-4's because you were reporting F4F-3's and SBD-2's in the losses. This means that he has sufficiently deep pools of replacement aircraft for these earlier models to keep at least a couple of these squadrons operationally effective.

Worst case he could have a couple hundred aircraft of both types in reserve, and by canibalizing some USMC squadrons he could add a couple hundred more to the kitty. The real question you need to be asking is how effective has his training program been? Is he religiously training Naval and Marine pilots in rear ares? By now he potentially could have several Dozen squadrons he could use for these purposes. Personally, I like to use the float plane squadrons that arrive on the West Coast to train replacement naval Pilots. Some of these can be converted into Dive Bomber squadrons, and the PBY squadrons can be used to replace torpedo pilots. The Seagull and Kingfisher squadrons can be used to train fighter pilots. He will also start getting some squadrons of type based land based Naval aircraft.

In my opinion you probably need 3 or 4 more results like this, before January, to put a serious crimp in his Naval and Marine air units. Had these results been the case 3 or 4 months ago.... then yeah, he would be seriously hurting.



(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 447
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/17/2010 8:41:28 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		Fight on and fly on to the last drop of blood and the last drop of fuel, to the last beat of the heart.
- Baron Manfred von Richthofen

---

11/3/1942 – 11/10/1942

Slowly things around Timor are swinging against me. It has been a long and bloody process but Q-Ball’s tactics have been sound and slowly but surely he is using the weight of Allied material to consolidate his position.

Following the heavy losses following our carrier duel I sent some fighters sweeping over Waingapu. They downed about 10 Kittyhawks at a cost of one plane. At that point I was feeling pretty good about things. Q-Ball’s carriers withdrew to Port Hedland and he sent several convoys of xAKLs into Waingapu and Flores on (my best guess) resupply runs.

I went after them and ran into a buzzsaw. Over two days I sank or heavily damaged about ten freighters and escorts but I was met by hordes of Allied fighters. This time is was my air force that took it in the shorts. He lost 20 more planes but I lost about 35 fighters and 60 bombers; 15 of these were Nells and the rest carrier planes. So much for my hopes that Q-Ball was being hurt by his heavy air losses!

It was interesting to see in action something that a couple of people have pointed out, namely that the Allies have a diverse selection of aircraft pools, making it hard to really deplete them. In the same action, for instance, I saw the RZNAF Kittyhawk 1A, the RAF Kittyhawk 1A, and I’m pretty sure there were some RAAF Kittyhawks around too.

As a bright spot, I-157 torpedoed and sank CL Marblehead off Exmouth. The coast off Exmouth is going to be a great dive spot after the war. Japanese submarines have claimed a lot of kills there.

I pulled KB back to Singapore to refuel and take on some new planes. Kaga is being repaired locally but I have sent Junyo back to Kobe.

Meanwhile Allied forces have completed the conquest of Timor, taking Dili on 9 November. I was able to fly out many of the troops, fortunately, before the base fell.

Allied heavy bombers have conducted several raids against Ambon. They are mostly unescorted because Q-Ball has discovered that the heavies do a better job protecting themselves than fighters do. I have shot down 10 or 12 of them but it has cost me 3 Zeros in the air and a dozen planes, mostly Bettys, on the ground. The airfield is becoming heavily damaged. We are not talking about the 200 or 300-planes raids we saw in WITP, of course. These fights involve about 40 B-17s and B-24s and it is obvious that battle damage and maintenance issues keep them from flying every day. They can still close an airfield but it is a relatively long process. I expect we will see more of this in the future when Q-Ball attempts further gains.

Burma: the northern frontier has remained static, as far as I can see anyway, but Q-Ball brought a strong force to Lashio. I was able to rush units there, though, and despite heavy bombing and shelling his two attacks there have been at 1 to 2 odds and then 1 to 4 odds. He has the forts down to 0, however. I suspect that supply problems are keeping him from attacking successfully. I hope so, anyway. Heck, I’m having trouble getting supplies there and I have a rail line.

China: Japanese forces are continuing to apply pressure but no breakthroughs yet. Bombarding really does eat up supplies now and doing a bombardment with low supplies seems to produce poor results. The result is I am able to bombard about every other day, with an occasional attack thrown in. I have hopes that in the end a combination of poor Chinese troop quality and superior supplies will enable me to break through.

Pacific: the Pacific ocean has been utterly serene. Occasional Japanese supply convoys ply the waters but that is all the action and movement I have observed here for weeks.


(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 448
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/17/2010 8:50:44 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

Cuttlefish says, "All Q-Ball's raids were detected by radar....."???? Really, do you have radar at this stage of the war? I've never played the Japanese, so I just don't know, but I did not think the IJN had radar on their ships at this point.


Hm...you're right, none of my ships present had radar and I can't find radar mentioned in the combat reports. I may have been mistaken about seeing radar mentioned during the replay.



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(in reply to princep01)
Post #: 449
RE: In the Trenches at 21K Feet - 1/17/2010 8:58:37 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish


quote:

ORIGINAL: princep01

Cuttlefish says, "All Q-Ball's raids were detected by radar....."???? Really, do you have radar at this stage of the war? I've never played the Japanese, so I just don't know, but I did not think the IJN had radar on their ships at this point.


Hm...you're right, none of my ships present had radar and I can't find radar mentioned in the combat reports. I may have been mistaken about seeing radar mentioned during the replay.





Actually "detected by radar" message is also given when your TF detects the enemy by other means earlier than usual.

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(in reply to Cuttlefish)
Post #: 450
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