The death of Dutch air groups

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The death of Dutch air groups - 1/16/2010 8:24:08 PM

Drambuie

Posts: 80
Joined: 8/18/2004
Status: offline

Hi,

Looks as if i'm just about to lose Koepang, the last bit of DEI left in Allied hands. (The AI landed a rather amazing 10k+ troops in an amphib op while my woeful defenders fired round after round in defense and hit bugger all ... but that's for another gripe!

)

Anyway, I have about 10 Dutch air groups that were assigned to KNIL that cannot have their HQ changed. Will they just sit on the island and die?

If so, I understand the need to stop the unrealistic pulling out of stuff when the Japs arrive but if there is nowhere meaningful left in Dutch hands why would they not have flown to Oz? Just rather frustrating that these groups will just basically commit suicide rather than fly off elswewhere (especially being tied to a HQ that no longer exists having been trampled over!)

Btw despite my moans the AI definitely feels more challenging and aggressive in AE ... even damned annoying and worthy of much cursing at times lol!

Post #: 1

RE: The death of Dutch air groups - 1/16/2010 9:10:42 PM

Central Blue

Posts: 695
Joined: 8/20/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drambuie

Hi,

Looks as if i'm just about to lose Koepang, the last bit of DEI left in Allied hands. (The AI landed a rather amazing 10k+ troops in an amphib op while my woeful defenders fired round after round in defense and hit bugger all ... but that's for another gripe! )

Anyway, I have about 10 Dutch air groups that were assigned to KNIL that cannot have their HQ changed. Will they just sit on the island and die?

If so, I understand the need to stop the unrealistic pulling out of stuff when the Japs arrive but if there is nowhere meaningful left in Dutch hands why would they not have flown to Oz? Just rather frustrating that these groups will just basically commit suicide rather than fly off elswewhere (especially being tied to a HQ that no longer exists having been trampled over!)

Btw despite my moans the AI definitely feels more challenging and aggressive in AE ... even damned annoying and worthy of much cursing at times lol!

Think of it as saving the pilots -- which you can do if you disband early enough. I don't know what your options are if you are back against the wall in Koepang because mine are usually shot to pieces while I still hold Java.

IRL the planes they flew were either too old or too dilapidated to put much effort into supporting. Whatever got flown out in real life was probably used for training or target towing. Once the pilots got to Oz there were hardly ever enough planes to organize a lot of new Dutch squadrons.

_____________________________

USS St. Louis firing on Guam, July 1944. The Cardinals and Browns faced each other in the World Series that year

(in reply to Drambuie)

Post #: 2

RE: The death of Dutch air groups - 1/16/2010 9:24:18 PM

sven6345789

Posts: 1050
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Sandviken, Sweden
Status: offline

It is also supposed to impose some political boundaries on you. If the dutch groups could be withdrawn, a lot of players would pull them back right from the start.
But it is correct, you can at least save the pilots. And you have to, since the dutch do not have a pilot pool. found that out the hard way. tried to pull pilots anyhow and got guys, oh, boy, calling them green would be an insult to green pilots.

_____________________________

Bougainville, November 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. It rained today.

Letter from a U.S. Marine,November 1943

(in reply to Central Blue)

Post #: 3

RE: The death of Dutch air groups - 1/17/2010 4:58:57 AM

afspret

Posts: 851
Joined: 2/19/2004
From: Hanahan, SC
Status: offline

Maybe I'm mistaken, or dreaming, but I seem to recall seeing/reading that said if a base is captured, some of the undamaged a/c will fly to the nearest in range friendly base. I just lost Wake and all 11 Wildcats that were on the island, this despite the fact Lexington was within range and so was Midway. Am I mistaken or dreaming, or does the rule not apply to island bases? (And yes, I had already flown the Marine Vindicators off to Midway, so Lex was not overcrowded).

(in reply to sven6345789)

Post #: 4

RE: The death of Dutch air groups - 1/17/2010 7:00:47 PM

Yakface

Posts: 846
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline

You can change Darwin to an ABDA base (cost 600 PP) and the planes will then be able to rebase there. Of course you've got to be convinced that you will hold Darwin, otherwise you've just wasted 600PP.

(in reply to afspret)

Post #: 5

RE: The death of Dutch air groups - 1/17/2010 7:07:45 PM

Central Blue

Posts: 695
Joined: 8/20/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface

You can change Darwin to an ABDA base (cost 600 PP) and the planes will then be able to rebase there. Of course you've got to be convinced that you will hold Darwin, otherwise you've just wasted 600PP.

And the planes moved won't do much to help you keep it if the bad guys really want it.

_____________________________

USS St. Louis firing on Guam, July 1944. The Cardinals and Browns faced each other in the World Series that year

(in reply to Yakface)

Post #: 6

RE: The death of Dutch air groups - 1/17/2010 8:05:11 PM

veldek01

Posts: 36
Joined: 4/18/2008
Status: offline

You can change Wyndham to ABDA for 200 Pt . After that you have to build the base.

(in reply to Central Blue)

Post #: 7

RE: The death of Dutch air groups - 1/17/2010 9:09:38 PM

Smeulders

Posts: 1879
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline

Most of the Dutch air units can never upgrade above the flying caskets they have, so saving them for later isn't worth much. On top of that there are NO Dutch pilots being trained, there is a small pool, but you'll need that for the 2 Dutch RAAF squadrons. Best to just disband the units in the DEI and get some more pilots to replace losses in the RAAF squadrons.

(in reply to veldek01)

Post #: 8

RE: The death of Dutch air groups - 1/17/2010 10:07:03 PM

pacwar

Posts: 100
Joined: 11/21/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Other than the limited options for dealing with the squadrons how bad are your prospects on the ground? I've got about 13K refugees from DEI in Koepang, mostly AA and engineers and 3 HQ's. Is Koepang the last bastion for your forces on Timor? I am also facing a ai invasion of Koepang...19K just landed at Koepang but I made a decision a couple of turns ago to try and save Timor, so I moved two carriers and a surface TF from the PM area...while the Japs got their invasion force landed my TF raided his TF, sinking over 10 AP's and AK's and my carriers sank CV Junyo. Of course I lost Hermes...you can read about that in another thread, but I was able to land enough ground forces to blunt his ground attack and since most of the other enemy CV's are running around Coral Sea I don't think the ai can reinforce the forces at Koepang any time soon.

Good luck.

db

(in reply to Smeulders)

Post #: 9

RE: The death of Dutch air groups - 1/18/2010 9:59:24 AM

Grollub

Posts: 6674
Joined: 10/9/2005
From: Lulea, Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Most of the Dutch air units can never upgrade above the flying caskets they have, so saving them for later isn't worth much. On top of that there are NO Dutch pilots being trained, there is a small pool, but you'll need that for the 2 Dutch RAAF squadrons. Best to just disband the units in the DEI and get some more pilots to replace losses in the RAAF squadrons.

That might be true for the fighter and bomber squadrons. I like to save the dutch patrol sqn's (GVT's) to N/NW Australia though. If there is one thing you can't have too much of it would be search planes.

_____________________________

�Not mastering metaphores is like cooking pasta when the train is delayed"

(in reply to Smeulders)

Post #: 10

RE: The death of Dutch air groups - 1/18/2010 12:53:13 PM

Drambuie

Posts: 80
Joined: 8/18/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pacwar
Other than the limited options for dealing with the squadrons how bad are your prospects on the ground?

Thanks for the thoughts all ... don't think I need the stuff that bad to spend all the PPs.

As for my prospects not good ... two of my carriers are unfortunately a bit beaten up after stopping a Japanese amphib force around Port Moresby so one or two hits would sink them and they're currently in Brisbane/Sydney repairing.

Japs have now landed lots of stuff at Koepang - I have an Australian brigade there and some other bits and pieces but not enough to hold it. Did sink a lot of transports and some destroyers though having rushed a CL/CA/DD force over to hit the invasion so have bloodied their nose there at least.

Actually the AI is proving a real challenge in this one which is great if rather frustrating. I have lost Noumea after they dropped a division there really early. And the AI has had several carriers wandering between there and Suva for about a month which is proving a real pain in moving stuff to Oz - don't think the boats can have many aircraft left after they hit Suva and i'd managed to shift 5 squadrons of fighters there which helped. Just had my first success taking back canton Island which they had nicked too!

Anyway, thanks all. I shall have me revenge eventually

(in reply to pacwar)

Post #: 11

RE: The death of Dutch air groups - 1/18/2010 2:03:55 PM

John Lansford

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline

Sounds like the path the AI took in my CG. I moved part of a British brigade to reinforce Koepang, and had several smaller infantry and support units there too. The AI landed on the other end of Timor and moved overland to Koepang, eventually reached my base. Bombardment LCU missions and naval bombardments kept them from doing anything and I actually drove them out of the hex a few times; then the AI got serious and landed two divisions by amphibious assault and took the base in two days. My surface fleet out of Darwin shot up TF after TF but to no avail.

It also landed a division at Koumac but then forgot to take the base; when the division headed south towards Noumea, I staged a counterlanding behind them at Koumac and now the division is caught between two strongly held bases. I hope they like eating coconut fronds...

(in reply to Drambuie)

Post #: 12

RE: The death of Dutch air groups - 1/18/2010 8:03:42 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

But you can save the Dutch version of the A2O, B25 and hurricane. There is one Australian (dutch pilots) unit that comes on that will take the A20, one Australian unit that will take the B25 and one RZAF unit that can take the hurricane. In addition, one Americans unit can take the Dutch B25 as well. About 80 planese in all. And medium bombers are very precious in OZ for the first six to eight months of the war. So the question is, do you give these valuable planes to the Dutch DEI units or resevere them for later use defending OZ?

I have been unable to find a single other Allied unit that will take the Dutch P40s though. Best to go ahead and use them up.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to John Lansford)

Post #: 13

RE: The death of Dutch air groups - 1/19/2010 10:52:14 PM

vinnie71

Posts: 964
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

I tend to use Timor as the stop line. Moving several Dutch HQ's, engineers and Inf forces to Kopeang helps build up the base pretty quickly (+ supplies from Soerbaja). As the American reinforcements and Aussie units arrive, I keep on reinforcing Dili and Lautern. I find the Dutch air forces precious since it is easy to train their squadrons up and even though they have few replacement planes, it is possible to keep them in action as long as you avoid the useless wear and tear. The AI will launch several unescorted Betty raids which help train the Dutch fighters, while if you leave the bombers in training, by the time that advanced ACs arrive, they are able to do some damage. Obviously and American fighter airwing and any Aussie and NZ fighters evacuated from Malaya also help keep away the marauding Japanese. Once reinforcements arrive, Timor is an excellent base to send your fighter sweeps and escorted bomber raids if you want to hit the AI in the direction of the Philippines

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 14