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Radar Type -> Freya & Mammut

 
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Radar Type -> Freya & Mammut - 1/29/2010 4:06:40 AM   
kaybayray

 

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Greetings

Hey Sarge can you define Freya and Mammut Radar in this game? It appears to be a new add in the Matrix Version. Never noticed it before in the Original.

Thanks,

KayBay

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RE: Radar Type -> Freya & Mammut - 1/29/2010 11:30:38 AM   
Hard Sarge


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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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keeping it overly simple, Mammut is a longer ranged verison of Freya (on a different wavelength, which so saying, odd part on all of these, none of them really had the same wavelength, they were close, but all were off a little here and there)

(I got better details elsewhere, if needed, but I would have to do some hunting)

they were in the JC verison, but he forgot about the min alt range, also, his didn't have a counter to them

so, RCM worked, but only took out the Freya, and left the Mammut alone

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RE: Radar Type -> Freya & Mammut - 1/29/2010 2:23:19 PM   
kaybayray

 

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Hey Sarge

Thanks.

So can I expect the possibility to have some level of success with my RCM AC on the Freya?

What about the Mammut?

What I am asking for is can you define how the two different types of Radar function within the game?

I am assuming, perhaps wrongly, that the Freya is a more simpler Radar with a relatively limited range of detection as compared to the Mammut. I do know that the Mammut was a Phased Array which should have a much longer detection range. So I am assuming that is also true in the game.

Can you tell me if either are associated directly with the NJG operations more so than the other? Or is there really not any separation of use within Luftwaffe NJG operations between the two types?

This adds yet another Tier of intrigue to playing this game. Thanks for adding this. As I work with the Matrix Version I keep uncovering many new features you guys added or enhanced. Thanks !!

Later,
KayBay

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RE: Radar Type -> Freya & Mammut - 1/29/2010 3:01:47 PM   
Hard Sarge


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was an interconnection of eight (or six) Freya antenna fields at two Freya devices. So that objectives in 8000 m altitude to 300 km away could be located. The antennas were permanently mounted. The directional beam could be electronically rotated by ± 60 °. It was the first phased array radar in the world.

that is from Wiki, and with in reason, matches what I got in my notes

so basicly, it is a double Freya, with a much bigger Antenna Array, and much more power, so giving it better range

(if Shaggy is around, he may be able to give you a much better detailed account)

so, yes, RCM will work vs the Freya, with a lesser chance of also working with Mammut

as other models come out, they will have the chance to work with other radars, and lesser chance to work with others

a Real late war RCM plane, had a lot of devices on them, and each one, would be fine tuned to each radar it picked up, as it picked them up

so, that is why you may seen, the same device in the plane, each is set to work vs some type of radar (with a 2nd lesser chance vs the rest)

(which if you watch the map, with the radar circles showing, you will see how they will come on and off, most times that is the 2ndary effect, winning and losing the die rolls)


Can you tell me if either are associated directly with the NJG operations more so than the other? Or is there really not any separation of use within Luftwaffe NJG operations between the two types?

greeesh, that is a ruff one bud, I got book after book, trying to explain the effects

you would have to also bring in the Wassermann and the Wurzburg, they all worked together

a simple early form

you would use the long range to pick up the raid, the shorter range would track it, then once with in range, the short range would lock on, and another would lock onto the night fighter, and guide them to each other (well, one to the other) once in view, the pilot would call out, and the tracker could try and pick up a new target

in the older 4 poster/square system, the radar could only work with one target and one NF, and worked very well, until the streams started, then, maybe 50, or more bombers could pass though a box/square while the defenders were working on hitting one

really, if your interested, there are a lot of books out there about the Beam war, and they are very interesting (some are very dry though)

and all of the tricks that both sides used

one simple one, was a radio station, would play different kinds of music, while a bombing raid was going on, that was to tell the pilots where to head (while on freelance) most times there ground to air comm was being jammed, but the radio station wasn't (later on, the English, started to notice that the station played music that wasn't normal, and added 2 and 2 together, and then started to jam the radio station)

you would have seachlights that worked together, to send out messages, as in all coming together and then all lowering to the ground, pointing towards where the raid was heading

and of course, one that the pilots didn't like, but the first one to find the stream, was to climb about it, and start dropping flares, to guide in the other NFs, of course, the first guy didn't like this, it gave away his surprise, plus later, they thought it pinpointed them to the Mossies

of course, some good attacks, would also help, pilots who were flying looking for the raid, could see the flames, or burning planes going down, and get a vextor to follow

the NFs later had bacons, that they would fly to, and then circle, sort of a pecking order, the top guy, getting the first Ground controlled lock on, and then next guy would climb to the top of the circle, you could put dozens of planes into the beacon this way

one late war raid, the unit commanders didn't like the plot to begin with, after the raid, that got hammered, a lot of complaints were made, when it was noticed that the plotting used some of the known NF beacons as waypoints

and of course, I have mentioned the story about the scarecrow flak shells

very interesting


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RE: Radar Type -> Freya & Mammut - 1/29/2010 11:50:12 PM   
kaybayray

 

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Thanks Sarge <S>

I guess I will be working up a strategy to deal with Freya using RCM AC and Ordnance for the Mammut.

Later,
KayBay

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It's all Mind Over Matter....
If you dont mind... It dont matter

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 5
RE: Radar Type -> Freya & Mammut - 1/30/2010 12:56:04 AM   
Hard Sarge


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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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remember that they seem to work better in pairs or more

so either send out a stream, or work pinpoint with pairs

(your never really have enough to do everything you want)

but, Tiffies and Mossies can work the edges and then the RCM to clear a path though the middle

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RE: Radar Type -> Freya & Mammut - 2/6/2010 11:44:25 PM   
mikemike

 

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quote:


one late war raid, the unit commanders didn't like the plot to begin with, after the raid, that got hammered, a lot of complaints were made, when it was noticed that the plotting used some of the known NF beacons as waypoints


I think you mean the Nuremberg raid that cost the RAF 102 aircraft of 795 sortied. The German fighter controllers designated two beacons as rallying points for the NFs arriving from all over Germany that quite fortuitously happened to be near the bomber stream's route which led to large numbers of NFs making contact with the bomber stream. Compounding the quite unsustainable loss rate was that hardly any bombs hit the target area. Martin Middlebrook's book "The Nuremberg Raid" contains a very detailed analysis of this night.

BTW, one of the stories from that book sticks in my mind. There seems to have been a heavy AA battery somewhere in the wilderness, far away from any conceivable target (IIRC somewhere in the Black Forest area) that killed three bombers with a total of twenty rounds fired - they took three salvos to hit one aircraft, and survivors of the other two aircraft claim that the first they knew of being under fire was the explosion of the salvo that killed their plane. Middlebrook thinks this may have been a railway AA battery that happened to be in the right place at the right time - this shows how effective radar-directed heavy AA with experienced crews could be against targets cruising by dumb and happy when their fire-control radar was not being jammed.

quote:


really, if your interested, there are a lot of books out there about the Beam war, and they are very interesting (some are very dry though)


I can only underscore that. The electronics war makes fascinating reading. Contrary to popular conception, it was a fairly close-run thing right to VE-Day; in the end, what decided it was far better intelligence on the Allied side, lack of direction and a certain rigidity of thinking on the German side, and the effects of Allied bombing. Just one example: if the engine factory hadn't been destroyed by bombing, Allied bombers would have encountered wire-guided AA missiles late in 1944.

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