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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 3:26:52 AM   
Nikademus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie



To be fair the tanks in that scenario were a generation apart.


my point. When first debuted, the T-54 and T-55 were formidable tanks able to take on their immediate contemporaries. With the development of the T-64, they had one of the most advanced MBT's in the world. (compare to the M60's simple steel hull construction). The later T-80 was no slouch either. I don't relate the Soviet mass production machine to mean that they eschewed quality and training for simple mass. Mass was part of their doctrine, but not the be-all, end all. Quality was there too....which was why the 80 and 64 were kept exclusively for Soviet forces. Not even Warsaw Pact nations got those weapons. I don't see how one can judge possible Soviet performance in Europe based on what some eager Arab crews did in the desert vs. the far better trained and motivated Israel armored forces.

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Post #: 14971
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 3:33:55 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		lol.....well i don't have to bother asking Tiornu's opinion on "Struggle for the Middle Sea"

He gives an endorsement of the book on the back of the dust cover. (aka author "Richard Worth")

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Post #: 14972
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 3:38:50 AM   
DivePac88


Posts: 3119
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From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
Status: offline 		Hi Guys... God it's hot here, 33C I think, because it's to hot to go out and check.

So hot the wax in my ears has melted, and every noise is far too loud, man I hate the summer!

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Post #: 14973
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 4:22:39 AM   
scott64


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Post #: 14974
LOG!!! - 2/6/2010 4:36:27 AM   
Nikademus


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Status: offline 		I love Netflix.......a shot of whiskey....some soda, and classic Tom Baker as Dr Who on demand playing on our iMac. It doesn't get any better than this....

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Post #: 14975
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 6:48:32 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
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Status: offline 		Hi all,

Good morning!


Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 14976
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 6:50:56 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

my point. When first debuted, the T-54 and T-55 were formidable tanks able to take on their immediate contemporaries. With the development of the T-64, they had one of the most advanced MBT's in the world. (compare to the M60's simple steel hull construction). The later T-80 was no slouch either. I don't relate the Soviet mass production machine to mean that they eschewed quality and training for simple mass. Mass was part of their doctrine, but not the be-all, end all. Quality was there too....which was why the 80 and 64 were kept exclusively for Soviet forces. Not even Warsaw Pact nations got those weapons. I don't see how one can judge possible Soviet performance in Europe based on what some eager Arab crews did in the desert vs. the far better trained and motivated Israel armored forces.


Tank crews here on both sides (15+ years ago during war) preferred the T-55 to T-72... the T-72 was death trap... once properly hit it always (and I mean always) cooked inside killing all 3 crew... the T-55 almost never did that - even critically hit the crew could survive...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 14977
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 7:08:10 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I don't have much respect for the T-55. There was an incident in Bosnia in 1994, when Bosnian Serb T-55s attacked Danish Army Leopard 1s from ambush, scoring several non-penetrating hits from concealed positions before being destroyed in turn. I think we can agree that the Leo 1 is not exactly a "heavy" tank.


The Leopard 1 (and especially the Leopard 2) were heavily armoured and severeley outclassed the T-55...

BTW, in T-55 vs T-72 combat with crews of similar experience the T-55 always won!

The T-55 had 4 man crew (manual loader) and could fire as soon as possible (i.e. grenade is in the breach) - on T-72 the computer decides when the shot is fired (i.e. you can press the trigger but it won't happen instanteniously - it would take several seconds before all data is collected by computer - air speed, humidity etc.)...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 14978
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 7:19:34 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Apparently. The Challenger 2 is the most heavily-armoured tank in the world.


Isn't the latest Leopard 2 more armoured?


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 14979
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 9:17:25 AM   
Grollub


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Status: offline 		Mornin' gents.

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Post #: 14980
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 10:11:56 AM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
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Status: offline 		Morning all.

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Post #: 14981
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 10:19:42 AM   
sprior


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From: Portsmouth, UK
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quote:

I'm just curious which will anger our lime-enriched colleagues from across the pond more when we meet (and beat) the English 'football' squad (Americans read: soccer) in June. Will it anger you more that we won or that we still really just don't care?


I aw England/USA play at Soldier Field. There were 30,000 screaming England fans, a few bewildered Mexicans and 5 Americans. Got drunk, yelled a lot, the kids laughed, wife drove me home. And we won.

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Post #: 14982
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 10:33:40 AM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		Working today, building Server 2008 infrastructure for new network.

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Post #: 14983
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 10:35:02 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Apparently. The Challenger 2 is the most heavily-armoured tank in the world.


Isn't the latest Leopard 2 more armoured?


Leo "Apollo11"


No. Leo 2A6 (or whatever the latest is) has no Dorchester armour and no ERA.

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Post #: 14984
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 10:35:55 AM   
Terminus


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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

You mean they would have been sleeping?


Or stunned. They stun easily, you know.

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Post #: 14985
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 10:38:09 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: goodboyladdie



To be fair the tanks in that scenario were a generation apart.


my point. When first debuted, the T-54 and T-55 were formidable tanks able to take on their immediate contemporaries. With the development of the T-64, they had one of the most advanced MBT's in the world. (compare to the M60's simple steel hull construction). The later T-80 was no slouch either. I don't relate the Soviet mass production machine to mean that they eschewed quality and training for simple mass. Mass was part of their doctrine, but not the be-all, end all. Quality was there too....which was why the 80 and 64 were kept exclusively for Soviet forces. Not even Warsaw Pact nations got those weapons. I don't see how one can judge possible Soviet performance in Europe based on what some eager Arab crews did in the desert vs. the far better trained and motivated Israel armored forces.


We're talking about the quality of the weapons and the doctrine. The Syrian Army used the same weapons and tactics that the Soviets did at the time, and it fell on its ass.

I think WWIII in Europe would have ended with the use of nuclear weapons because the Soviets would have been unable to achieve their objective without them. Up until the Brezhnev era, Soviet war plans included their use from the beginning.

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Post #: 14986
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 10:58:38 AM   
comte


Posts: 2358
Joined: 2/4/2009
From: Be'eri, Hadarom, Israel
Status: offline 		Morning Tithe

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Post #: 14987
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 11:17:16 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Apparently there are 80 cm of snow in Washington D.C. in USA...

My cousin is in Richmond Virginia (rather close by)...


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to comte)
Post #: 14988
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 2:18:07 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Good morning - Tithe. 

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"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


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Post #: 14989
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 2:19:04 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

Apparently there are 80 cm of snow in Washington D.C. in USA...

My cousin is in Richmond Virginia (rather close by)...


Leo "Apollo11"


Yes, most of my family is in Baltimore, and they are buried under 20+ inches. All just heavy rain as far south as we are in NC.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 14990
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 2:51:57 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Question for our USA thread brethren...

Recently there was media scare regarding Toyota problems with accelerator pedals that caused some fatalities in USA (and thus many models were recalled for simple modifications).

There was even one case when family called for help with stuck accelerator pedal and then they crashed (all was recorded).

I was wondering what would happen if, in such case, the driver would simply turn off the engine via car key? Is that possible in USA cars with automatic gear shift?


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 14991
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 3:08:04 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Indeed, Leo, what you ask is exactly what should be done.  Sadly, most people just panic and jam on the brakes, hoping to stop.  With automatic transmissions, just put the car in neutral and then turn off the ignition.  

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Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

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Post #: 14992
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 3:20:24 PM   
radar


Posts: 337
Joined: 11/17/2007
From: Dayton, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Indeed, Leo, what you ask is exactly what should be done.  Sadly, most people just panic and jam on the brakes, hoping to stop.  With automatic transmissions, just put the car in neutral and then turn off the ignition.  


That's what I thought I would do in such a situation, but I wasn't sure it would work, although I guess one could test the senario. With electronic linkage to the accelerator, that's something everyone should know.


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Post #: 14993
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 3:29:45 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Indeed, Leo, what you ask is exactly what should be done.  Sadly, most people just panic and jam on the brakes, hoping to stop.  With automatic transmissions, just put the car in neutral and then turn off the ignition.  


Yep... that's what I thought... thanks for info Mike (it is almost 25 years since I drove automatic)... manically pressing brakes with accelerator pedal stuck would not help at all... panic... ahh... <SIGH>


Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 14994
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 3:30:57 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Apparently there are 80 cm of snow in Washington D.C. in USA...

My cousin is in Richmond Virginia (rather close by)...


Yes, most of my family is in Baltimore, and they are buried under 20+ inches. All just heavy rain as far south as we are in NC.


It is snowing here as well (bu it is not catching)...




Leo "Apollo11"

_____________________________



Prior Preparation & Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Performance!

A & B: WitW, WitE, WbtS, GGWaW, GGWaW2-AWD, HttR, CotA, BftB, CF
P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 14995
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 3:33:48 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
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Status: offline 		Morning all

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Post #: 14996
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 3:34:31 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Good morning, Bruce.  Welcome to page 500.  

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

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Post #: 14997
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 3:36:23 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
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Status: offline 		We are long winded

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Post #: 14998
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 3:45:16 PM   
radar


Posts: 337
Joined: 11/17/2007
From: Dayton, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

We are long winded


Morning, Bruce...nice day in the Sunshine State?

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Post #: 14999
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/6/2010 3:59:51 PM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
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Status: offline 		Yes it is. The sun is shining.

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Post #: 15000
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