Is this Intended???

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Is this Intended??? - 2/15/2010 5:04:58 PM

Przemcio231

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From: Warsaw,Poland,EU:)
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Ok im playing 2 games now one as Japan other as Allies... In both games every time a transport or amphib TF is intecepted no matter how many escorts i set into the TF and how many i Surface TF's i have on the hex my transports got shoot up...

Case 1 me as (Allies)
My surface TF avoided 2 enemy surface TF's and massacred a large amphib force unloading at Singkawang.

Case 2 me as (Japan)
I landed on Java and had 2 Surface TF's one with CA's other with 2 Kongo Class + CA's covering my amphib force... enemy ships went in got my convoy and blasted it to bits

Case 3 me as (Japan)
Due to above i used CA's in Amphib TF as additional escorts (3x CA + number of DD's) enemy CL and 2xDD avoided my surface ships and hit the amphib TF shooting up escorts despite my in TF escorts....

As for my games it happend 100% of times when an amphib TF was attacked!!!!!

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Post #: 1

RE: Is this Intended??? - 2/15/2010 5:19:42 PM

Mike Dixon

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From: Newcastle upon Tyne, England
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I was responsible for case 2 and 3....

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Post #: 2

RE: Is this Intended??? - 2/15/2010 5:22:35 PM

Don Bowen

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There are just too many variables to give a specific answer. And I don't quite understand what you mean in #3 "shooting up escorts despite my in TF escorts".

When a surface combat TF enters a hex containing multiple enemy TFs it will fight one of them. Which one depends on the type and strength of the enemy TFs and lots of luck. The chances are greater that a covering TF will be engaged but not absolute.

If your covering TFs are in a different hex, there is a much greater chance that the enemy can slip by and get to the transports. This is especially true if the covering TFs do not have reaction set OR if the enemy TF is undetected. An undetected enemy has a much better chance of getting past the escorts.

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Post #: 3

RE: Is this Intended??? - 2/15/2010 5:23:26 PM

CapAndGown

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May just be a case of bad luck. I am convinced, however, that having a SCTF follow an invasion force is a bad idea. I now have the SCTF head directly to the invasion site when the invasion is one day away. I don't know if this will work, but it should put the SCTF in the hex before the amphib force arrives so it can deal separately with any enemy surface ships.

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Post #: 4

RE: Is this Intended??? - 2/15/2010 5:23:43 PM

Przemcio231

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From: Warsaw,Poland,EU:)
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I ment that Convoy ships got shoot up despite close in escorts...

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Post #: 5

RE: Is this Intended??? - 2/15/2010 5:26:12 PM

Cribtop

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I think in case 3 the OP was saying he actually included 3 CA plus DDs as members of the Amphib TF, which is what I would have suggested given cases 1 and 2. Apparently, it still didn't work (ie the transports were shot up despite the presence of surface assets included in the Amphib TF).

Is this what you meant in case 3, Przemcio?

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Post #: 6

RE: Is this Intended??? - 2/15/2010 6:04:39 PM

treespider

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From: Edgewater, MD
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I was the victim of Case #1 --- and it wasn't exactly as described...although the first impression was as such.

I had a BB TF arriving at Singkawang the same turn as a separate CA TF which was following an Amphib TF.

My first "problem" was the BB TF arrived too late in the turn, far after the Amphib TF arrived, as well as the enemy TF...

My second "problem" - I had ordered the Amphib TF to merge with a second Amphib TF also enroute to Singkawang...as a result the "escorting" CA TF had no one follow (because the original Amphib TF no longer existed) so the CA TF headed back towards its home port.

As I said at the beginning the initial impression I had was the game was borked, but after examining the various parts of the equation it ended up being user error...

For a historical example one needs merely to look up the battle of Balikpapan wherein the escorting Japanese Surface TF left the area searching for the reported Aliied TF...while the Allied TF shot up the Japanese Transport TF.

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Post #: 7

RE: Is this Intended??? - 2/15/2010 7:02:22 PM

AcePylut

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IIRC the way to do it is have the Amphib TF follow the SCTF. The follow command keeps the SCTF going slow enough to stay "with" the Amphib.

Then, the SCTF is the first tf "in" the hex, and will deal with mines and other stuff.

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Post #: 8

RE: Is this Intended??? - 2/15/2010 7:03:20 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

May just be a case of bad luck. I am convinced, however, that having a SCTF follow an invasion force is a bad idea. I now have the SCTF head directly to the invasion site when the invasion is one day away. I don't know if this will work, but it should put the SCTF in the hex before the amphib force arrives so it can deal separately with any enemy surface ships.

Including PT boats!

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 9

RE: Is this Intended??? - 2/15/2010 8:08:49 PM

CapAndGown

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

May just be a case of bad luck. I am convinced, however, that having a SCTF follow an invasion force is a bad idea. I now have the SCTF head directly to the invasion site when the invasion is one day away. I don't know if this will work, but it should put the SCTF in the hex before the amphib force arrives so it can deal separately with any enemy surface ships.

Including PT boats!

Only thing was, that was not a case of the follow command. The BBs arrived late because they were much further away and arrived during the day while the amphib force you shot up arrived during the night. I screwed up, in other words.