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RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 8:29:59 PM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
No there isn't. It's just your democratized perspective. I suppose our early elections were not elections because only the landed had sufferage?

Bah. Elections are simply a group choosing a leader from amongst them. Nothing more.




In a very idealized sense you are completely right, but are we talking de facto or du jure?

Hmmm. Makes me hungry for soup. Followed by ice cream a la mode.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 16921
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 8:34:27 PM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
No there isn't. It's just your democratized perspective. I suppose our early elections were not elections because only the landed had sufferage?

Bah. Elections are simply a group choosing a leader from amongst them. Nothing more.




In a very idealized sense you are completely right, but are we talking de facto or du jure?


I hear you both. Practice of 'elections' in modern times is vastly different from election in say, ancient Rome, the closest model to our own government that we know of.

But de facto and de jure BOTH exist at all times, and does us no good to superimpose our de facto on their de facto.

_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 16922
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 8:41:32 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Actually king's in some instances were elected: by the nobility.



+1.
The idea (or false knowledge ) that most people have about Kings come from 17th century.
But in the first years, in Ancient Greece, in Holy Roman Empire, in middle age France, Britain, or else, Kings were elected...in fact, co-elected in their peers of the nobility.
Sometimes, the argument for electoral campaign was just to show a sword...it could convince...

Careful. None of the exemplar societies you name spoke modern English, and we are writing in modern English here (or in Mynok's case, making a vain attempt to do so).

The simple idea I was expressing by example is to preserve subtle distinctions in language so as to help people form rational thoughts. You engage in the silly sophistry you accuse others of pursuing by calling those processes "electoral campaigns." Let's be clear when being serious.

And, let's not be insulting. There was no need to throw in that "false knowledge" slam.


We do tend to give the term "electoral campaign" entirely too much credit. At the heart of it, its the process of fooling an un or under educated electorate using skewed information or omission thereof. Whereas selection assumes a much more clearly defined knowledge of a subject's capabilities for a clear goal.

On the other hand, I wonder how Sharon would have reacted if you suddenly beaned her with a phrase like "silly sophistry".

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 16923
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 8:42:50 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
No there isn't. It's just your democratized perspective. I suppose our early elections were not elections because only the landed had sufferage?

Bah. Elections are simply a group choosing a leader from amongst them. Nothing more.




In a very idealized sense you are completely right, but are we talking de facto or du jure?

Hmmm. Makes me hungry for soup. Followed by ice cream a la mode.


That 2 new pages for you. Aintcha proud?

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 16924
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 8:43:56 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
And they weren't suffering. They exercised suffrage.


Theres a difference?

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 16925
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 8:44:39 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


What does language, time period, or culture have to do with it? That's right. NOTHING.

"Elections" are not limited to some 20th century American concept.



Disagree. Concept is very dependent of definition.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 16926
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 8:45:41 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Sufferage is a noun. My sentence used it as the direct object of a verb. Perfectly correct grammar and semantics.



When has a simple thing like that stopped anyone from busting your chops?

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 16927
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 9:04:01 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Sufferage is a noun. My sentence used it as the direct object of a verb. Perfectly correct grammar and semantics.



When has a simple thing like that stopped anyone from busting your chops?


Around here, anyway.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 16928
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 9:28:23 PM   
gladiatt


Posts: 2576
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski


quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Actually king's in some instances were elected: by the nobility.



+1.
The idea (or false knowledge ) that most people have about Kings come from 17th century.
But in the first years, in Ancient Greece, in Holy Roman Empire, in middle age France, Britain, or else, Kings were elected...in fact, co-elected in their peers of the nobility.
Sometimes, the argument for electoral campaign was just to show a sword...it could convince...

Careful. None of the exemplar societies you name spoke modern English, and we are writing in modern English here (or in Mynok's case, making a vain attempt to do so).

The simple idea I was expressing by example is to preserve subtle distinctions in language so as to help people form rational thoughts. You engage in the silly sophistry you accuse others of pursuing by calling those processes "electoral campaigns." Let's be clear when being serious.

And, let's not be insulting. There was no need to throw in that "false knowledge" slam.


(sorry for delay on answer, i was elsewhere for a moment).

Damn Pas, i didn't thought your reaction could get so tough...
First of all: an election as nothing to do with democracy: as Mynok said, a bunch of people elect a leader: think of Athenian in age of Pericles. Not all the peoples living in the city had the right to vote. And this kind of election did last in history for century.
Second; shall we really think that nothing should be granted consideration if existing before modern english ? It seem to me that human society exist since far older than this language.
Third: i didn't mean to insult anyone; just sharing a knowledge that i have, in order to "clean" assertions that seem to me false. I never said something like i was superior, like you are inferior, or such things like that.
Now, if you can't stand what i said, it seems it exist a green button somewhere that you could use.
I 'd like to add

_____________________________


(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 16929
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 9:42:30 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt
I 'd like to add


I think what Eric's trying to say is that his butt hurts.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to gladiatt)
Post #: 16930
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 10:04:23 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America


quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Actually king's in some instances were elected: by the nobility.


Only on your worthless rockpile of a planet, maybe - here on the Big Blue Marble, those were "selections," not "elections." When you "elect," you choose a representative from among peers. When you "select," you appoint one who becomes a superior, not a representative.

But, of course, I await your argument en riposte with bait on my breath ... hope they're not biting.

And do I have to explain to you that apostrophes are not used to form plurals, Mr. Grammarteer?


Oooh, a grammar slap!

Eats shoots and leaves!

_____________________________


(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 16931
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 10:05:52 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Actually king's in some instances were elected: by the nobility.



+1.
The idea (or false knowledge ) that most people have about Kings come from 17th century.
But in the first years, in Ancient Greece, in Holy Roman Empire, in middle age France, Britain, or else, Kings were elected...in fact, co-elected in their peers of the nobility.
Sometimes, the argument for electoral campaign was just to show a sword...it could convince...


I'm with Pas on this one. Theres a great big line between an election and the choice of a figurehead.



No there isn't.

Yes there is.

_____________________________


(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 16932
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 10:23:29 PM   
radar


Posts: 337
Joined: 11/17/2007
From: Dayton, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub


quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Somehow reminds me of the first girl I ever saw nekkid back in junior high school...

She was slime covered???

Not yet. Let's just say that ole Barb wasn't much of a looker.

Seems to me where I grew up there was a certain association with girls' names. "Barb" was always homely, a little heavy, usually wore glasses, and got good - but not excellent - grades. "Maureen" was always big and very big on kissing. "Jackie" was the svelte, blonde, homecoming/prom queen type who made all the other girls dream in secret of vitriol throwing. "Sharon" was the cheerleader voted "most likely to give the starting backfield a good time in the back seat of the football away game bus." "Sueann" was the local punch, but all the guys wanted to get next to her anyway, just to see what it was all about. "Donna" was the sluttily good-looking chick who was intimidating and often making it with a married man. "Nancy" was frequently homely and wound up getting pregnant.

Ah, the good old days and the good old girls. Back when "safe sex" meant making sure the car doors were locked.


I associate girls with a femine form of a boy's name as being the most interesting--Andi, Charlie, Stevie--part tom girl; intensely alluring; and always a sexual volcano.

_____________________________

USS Terry (DD-513) — Battle of the Atlantic, Solomon and Marianas Islands campaigns and the Battle of Iwo Jima

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 16933
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 10:27:37 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
Yes there is.


So what are you saying?

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 16934
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 10:28:46 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: radar
I associate girls with a femine form of a boy's name as being the most interesting--Andi, Charlie, Stevie--part tom girl; intensely alluring; and always a sexual volcano.


Ooooh....more war stories.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to radar)
Post #: 16935
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 10:54:34 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: radar
I associate girls with a femine form of a boy's name as being the most interesting--Andi, Charlie, Stevie--part tom girl; intensely alluring; and always a sexual volcano.


Ooooh....more war stories.

You forgot Leigh and Sandy. Ah, memories...

_____________________________


(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 16936
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 11:05:09 PM   
ChickenOfTheSea


Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		Well, since I grew up in Nebraska in the 50's and 60's where the choice was girls or sheep, it really didn't matter what their names were.

_____________________________

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. - Manfred Eigen

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 16937
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 11:08:53 PM   
ChickenOfTheSea


Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		Well, i need to head home and I'm too tired to fix dinner. Anyone have any ideas where I might find a chicken in a can in Richmond, VA.?

_____________________________

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. - Manfred Eigen

(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)
Post #: 16938
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 11:43:38 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea

Well, since I grew up in Nebraska in the 50's and 60's where the choice was girls or sheep, it really didn't matter what their names were.


What aprt of Nebraska CoS? It looks like that will be me my furture home for the next 2 years.

_____________________________


(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)
Post #: 16939
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 11:46:18 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
Get your mind out of the gutter.

And move it down into the sewer with yours? You're the guy who's getting all worked up from fantasizing about my sex life, ya know (I'd call it a "love life," but, as sister Tina sang it, "What's love got to do with it?").

Again with the two of you? Not that there's anything wrong with that!


Wait till Steve shows up....


......and keeps on going......

_____________________________


(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 16940
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 11:47:32 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gladiatt


quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Don't believe the French.









_____________________________


(in reply to gladiatt)
Post #: 16941
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 11:49:36 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: radar


quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grollub


quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Somehow reminds me of the first girl I ever saw nekkid back in junior high school...

She was slime covered???

Not yet. Let's just say that ole Barb wasn't much of a looker.

Seems to me where I grew up there was a certain association with girls' names. "Barb" was always homely, a little heavy, usually wore glasses, and got good - but not excellent - grades. "Maureen" was always big and very big on kissing. "Jackie" was the svelte, blonde, homecoming/prom queen type who made all the other girls dream in secret of vitriol throwing. "Sharon" was the cheerleader voted "most likely to give the starting backfield a good time in the back seat of the football away game bus." "Sueann" was the local punch, but all the guys wanted to get next to her anyway, just to see what it was all about. "Donna" was the sluttily good-looking chick who was intimidating and often making it with a married man. "Nancy" was frequently homely and wound up getting pregnant.

Ah, the good old days and the good old girls. Back when "safe sex" meant making sure the car doors were locked.


I associate girls with a femine form of a boy's name as being the most interesting--Andi, Charlie, Stevie--part tom girl; intensely alluring; and always a sexual volcano.



And my favorite.....Lou!

_____________________________


(in reply to radar)
Post #: 16942
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/19/2010 11:51:01 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea

Well, i need to head home and I'm too tired to fix dinner. Anyone have any ideas where I might find a chicken in a can in Richmond, VA.?


We need to get together for a drink, it's only a 45 minute between us.

_____________________________


(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)
Post #: 16943
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/20/2010 12:05:29 AM   
ChickenOfTheSea


Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea

Well, i need to head home and I'm too tired to fix dinner. Anyone have any ideas where I might find a chicken in a can in Richmond, VA.?


We need to get together for a drink, it's only a 45 minute between us.


I was supposed to be up there last weekend, but chickened out due to the weather.

_____________________________

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. - Manfred Eigen

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 16944
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/20/2010 12:07:49 AM   
ChickenOfTheSea


Posts: 579
Joined: 6/7/2008
From: Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea

Well, since I grew up in Nebraska in the 50's and 60's where the choice was girls or sheep, it really didn't matter what their names were.


What aprt of Nebraska CoS? It looks like that will be me my furture home for the next 2 years.


I grew up in Lincoln so I'm really a city boy by Nebraska standards. Almost all of my family still live there and I try to get back when I can. I try to get in a football game each fall if possible.


_____________________________

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice, there is. - Manfred Eigen

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 16945
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/20/2010 12:10:12 AM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea

Well, i need to head home and I'm too tired to fix dinner. Anyone have any ideas where I might find a chicken in a can in Richmond, VA.?


We need to get together for a drink, it's only a 45 minute between us.


I was supposed to be up there last weekend, but chickened out due to the weather.


I'll be around for a couple of months, we'll try to work it out.

_____________________________


(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)
Post #: 16946
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/20/2010 12:11:18 AM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChickenOfTheSea

Well, since I grew up in Nebraska in the 50's and 60's where the choice was girls or sheep, it really didn't matter what their names were.


What aprt of Nebraska CoS? It looks like that will be me my furture home for the next 2 years.


I grew up in Lincoln so I'm really a city boy by Nebraska standards. Almost all of my family still live there and I try to get back when I can. I try to get in a football game each fall if possible.



I don't think that's all that far from Omaha is it? That's where I'll be.

_____________________________


(in reply to ChickenOfTheSea)
Post #: 16947
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/20/2010 1:51:17 AM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		Evening tithe and my head is stopped up again

(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 16948
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/20/2010 1:52:07 AM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		I have never been to Nebraska. Don't have much reason to go there either.

(in reply to BrucePowers)
Post #: 16949
RE: THE THREAD!!! - 2/20/2010 1:53:42 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok
Sufferage is a noun. My sentence used it as the direct object of a verb. Perfectly correct grammar and semantics.


Listen, you alien critter, I had no intention of sticking a steel probe into your sensitive language use nerve root. Forget it, I was trying to be facetious - and, obviously, without success.

I wouldn't offend you, cause I LOVE YOU, [[fill in correct genus and species identification or MAN, as applicable]].

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Mynok)
Post #: 16950
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