RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J)

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 2/26/2010 7:56:33 PM

seille

Posts: 2134
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Mike,

Tony or tojo? What is your take?

Upps, maybe i was too focussed on the Frank. Think i should build some Tojos as well until the Frank is available.
No Tony for me. The only point i like here is the armor.
I prefer the service rating and the range of the Tojo.

Thanks for pointing me on this problem, crsutton.

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 481

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 2/27/2010 1:48:32 AM

Mike Solli

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28 Jan 42

High hopes this turn but pretty much a lackluster day.

Things started well when the I-174 caught an unescorted xAKL east of Noumea and sank her with gunfire. Wow, big deal. That was the highlight of the day.

I attacked with 3 SNLFs at Ambon getting 2:1 odds, but a fort eliminated my chances of taking the place. I did kill 458 for 42 losses and I did eliminate the fort. Tomorrow, a shock attack should take the place. I have the 21 Air Flotilla HQ along with some AA a marking time a couple hexes out. I'll land them as soon as I drive the Dutch out, and kill that darned CD unit there that is beating up the merchant ships offloading supplies. I lost an xAKL and 2 xAKs today from cumulative CD fire over the last few days.

Here's the OOB for the Java invasion:

16 Army HQ

38 Infantry Division
4 Infantry Division
21 Independent Mixed Brigade

2 Tank Regiment (rebuilt after losing half it's strength when an xAK went down early in the war)
8 Tank Regiment

1 Heavy Artillery Regiment
2 Independent Heavy Artillery Battalion
3 Independent Heavy Artillery Battalion
10 Independent Mountain Gun Regiment
2 Mortar Battalion

16 AA Regiment

1 Independent Engineer Regiment
19 Independent Engineer Regiment
20 Independent Engineer Regiment

33 Road Construction Company
34 Road Construction Company

23 JAAF AF Battalion
24 JAAF AF Battalion

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Post #: 482

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 2/27/2010 1:57:28 AM

CapAndGown

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You are not bringing enough to the party at Java. 2 and 1/2 divisions is not going to defeat his stacks.

What about Timor? You are in the neighborhood. I would grab Koepang and Kendari quick.

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Post #: 483

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 2/27/2010 2:08:10 AM

Mike Solli

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The Java invasion is not intended to take the island. I just want a foothold to keep his attention. I won't take Java until Singapore or Bataan falls.

The goal is to land at Kalidjati (level 4 airfield) and dump 18 Zeros and 30 Oscars there to attrit his air power. If I move hex to the SW to Bandoeng, I can cut the northern third of Java (including Batavia) from the rest. I'll expect Ted to move north. Then the force from either Singapore or Bataan will hit Java in the south.

I'm buying the 20 Division out of Korea to take Tarakan, Balikpapan and then Timor. That division will be headed out of Korea very soon on fast xAPs.

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Post #: 484

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 2/27/2010 4:13:36 AM

Mike Solli

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29 Jan 42

I took Ambon today in a shock attack that caused all 3 Dutch units to surrender. I'll pull 2 of the 3 SNLFs out for future invasions. The support troops will begin to land tomorrow.

I had spotted an Allied TF hanging out at Sorong and sent a surface force of 3 CA, 1 CL and 7 DD to investigate. They obliterated a small PC. Some TF.

Ted is beginning to stick subs in my ports and I've seen the first one off the coast of Japan too. I try to prosecute them but Japanese ASW just plain sucks. I get what I think is the occasional hit, but I don't think I've sunk a single sub yet. I'm also putting small minefields (150 mines) where he likes to send the subs. Maybe I'll get lucky.

The Java invasion force has left Cam Ranh Bay bound for Singkawang, where it will pick up some surface TFs and minesweepers for it's journey to Java. I suspect it'll arrive in about a week.

Ted and I have been talking about FOW and ship losses. He firmly believes the Ryujo went down. She'll be fully repaired in about 19 days.

Then I'll team her up with the Zuiho, Shoho and Hosho for a nice little strike force of 74 Zeros and 53 Kates.

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Post #: 485

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 2/28/2010 1:27:42 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

.... I try to prosecute them but Japanese ASW just plain sucks. I get what I think is the occasional hit, but I don't think I've sunk a single sub yet. ...

Looking forward to seeing how/what you do about this. I think this "just plain sucks" is a pretty fair assessment of the situation.

And allied players tend to be even MORE aggressive with thier subs than historically so I've reallly had problems with them (even with faulty torps .. shoot enough of them one has to hit).

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Post #: 486

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 2/28/2010 11:21:41 PM

Cribtop

Posts: 3890
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Mike,

Finally caught up on this great thread. I've probably learned more from this AAR than from any other. Especially handy as I am putting together turn 1 for my first ever AE PBEM as Japan. No doubt some lucky AFB will get the joy of smashing my virtual Kaigun.

A few thoughts:

1) I'm not qualified to comment on the economy much, but I will defend your "round number" repair of the 150th point in Miri. Tell me it doesn't pay off all you want, but seeing those round numbers is soothing.

2) I like your use of Babeldaob. I think it's an underrated and underused base for Japan. Have you had any problems keeping KB supplied with torps from bases like Babel or Truk?

3) Ted's single ship ambush plans seemed like a good idea, but haven't worked well in practice.

4) Given that Repulse was with the SCTF at PM but not PoW, I bet you really did hit her hard enough that she's still in the yard. Who knows, maybe you actually sank her, but I doubt it. Then again, maybe Ted didn't include her in that TF because she is a modern BB and not as expendable as an old BC and Dutch CLs.

5) Great job saving the mine subs. There's a thread on the uses of the various tenders that is very eye opening.

6) Any chance we could get a screenshot of the Burma front? Some interesting things going on there. Surely Ted will evac the 24k troops rather than lose them but between the Netties and the tanks the noose is tightening.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 2/28/2010 11:23:27 PM >

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Post #: 487

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 12:59:28 AM

Mike Solli

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30 Jan 42

Another quiet day with lots of preparations for future missions.

Reinforcements: Kure 3 SNLF and 12 Naval Construction Battalion, both for the SE Fleet. They're heading to Truk.

Between the Philippines, Malaya, Palembang and Billiton, I destroyed a Vildebeast, a Catalina and 6 139WH-3s for the cost of 2 Sallys.

I attacked Bataan taking 4239 casualties while causing 1822 casualties and reducing the fort level from 4 to 3. I'll bombard for a few days while my disrupted troops recover.

I landed two Naval Guard units at Terapo (3 hexes up the coast from Pt. Moresby). Thanks Q-Ball for the suggestion. I'll attack tomorrow, isolating the former PM garrison in the jungle so they can rot.

A base force landed at PM today allowing me to move planes there. I stationed a chutai of Zeros there for now.

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Post #: 488

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 1:00:46 AM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

.... I try to prosecute them but Japanese ASW just plain sucks. I get what I think is the occasional hit, but I don't think I've sunk a single sub yet. ...

Looking forward to seeing how/what you do about this. I think this "just plain sucks" is a pretty fair assessment of the situation. And allied players tend to be even MORE aggressive with thier subs than historically so I've reallly had problems with them (even with faulty torps .. shoot enough of them one has to hit).

I'll just keep attempting to hit the subs. Even though it's mainly ineffective, their experience levels will slowly increase so eventually they'll begin to cause damage.

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Post #: 489

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 1:06:32 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Mike,

Finally caught up on this great thread. I've probably learned more from this AAR than from any other. Especially handy as I am putting together turn 1 for my first ever AE PBEM as Japan. No doubt some lucky AFB will get the joy of smashing my virtual Kaigun.

A few thoughts:

1) I'm not qualified to comment on the economy much, but I will defend your "round number" repair of the 150th point in Miri. Tell me it doesn't pay off all you want, but seeing those round numbers is soothing.

2) I like your use of Babeldaob. I think it's an underrated and underused base for Japan. Have you had any problems keeping KB supplied with torps from bases like Babel or Truk?

3) Ted's single ship ambush plans seemed like a good idea, but haven't worked well in practice.

4) Given that Repulse was with the SCTF at PM but not PoW, I bet you really did hit her hard enough that she's still in the yard. Who knows, maybe you actually sank her, but I doubt it. Then again, maybe Ted didn't include her in that TF because she is a modern BB and not as expendable as an old BC and Dutch CLs.

5) Great job saving the mine subs. There's a thread on the uses of the various tenders that is very eye opening.

6) Any chance we could get a screenshot of the Burma front? Some interesting things going on there. Surely Ted will evac the 24k troops rather than lose them but between the Netties and the tanks the noose is tightening.

Thanks Cribtop. I appreciate that. So far I've been unable to reload KB torpedoes at Babeldaob. The port is just too small. I just got 4 AKEs converted (Lima class - 4900 capacity) and am sending 2 to Babeldaob. That should allow torps to reload. I can reload torpedos at Truk. The port is still 6 (slowly working toward the magic 7) but a hefty amount of naval support does the job. The AKE I started the war with is at Rabaul. It was used to replenish the main armament of the two now damaged BBs in that area. Of the remaining 2 AKEs, one will go to Kwajalein and the other will go to Singkawang.

I think I got lucky early with the mine subs but then aggressively attempted to save them and it worked. I'll discuss them in the next installment. I'll also post some screen shots.

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Post #: 490

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 1:21:29 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
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31 Jan 42

The last day of January gave me a huge influx of reinforcements. I got a CHa class SC, which is heading to Nagoya to merry up with some others. They'll then head to the SRA for their patrol zone (wherever that may be).

I got 7 small air units. I can resize most of them and will do so over the next few days. They'll all become training units. They include 1 floatplane, 4 DB and 2 TB units.

Kwangtung Army got the 4 Air Division HQ as well as 4x JAAF AF Bns.

China got 6x Infantry Brigades, 1 each for 1 and 12 Army, 2 for 11 Army and 2 for 13 Army. Some will go to the front but some are going to release 2 Infantry Divisions from garrison duties in Shanghai and Peiping.

I took Terapo, on the New Guinea coast, isolating the former Allied PM garrison. I also am sending some transports to PM to pick up the 4 Division to go to Java.

The I-122 just left Davao harbor for it's long trek to Hong Kong, where it will complete repairs. It's badly damaged but out of danger, currently at 0-71(71)-9(9)-0. It'll be awhile. The I-123 will leave Babeldaob for Hong Kong as well tomorrow. Her damage is 0-54(54)-18(18)-0.

SE Fleet damage update:

All of the warships involved in the battles around Tulagi and Pt. Moresby (aside from Oboro, which sank at the battle) are at either Rabaul or Truk making temporary repairs. They will all survive. Here is the status of the capital ships:

Mutsu: 44-12(9)-17(1)-0
Yamashiro: 38-28(6)-20(1)-0
Kinugasa: 10-0-1(1)-0 (will repair locally)
Kako: 22-4(4)-4-0 (will repair locally)

I have 17 DDs at Kobe (my DD upgrade center) that will start upgrades tomorrow. There are another 8 scattered around the map who will eventually make their way to a port for upgrades.

My Ki-21-IIa pool is dangerously low, currently at about 7 aircraft. The factory size of 23 is just too low. I've doubled the size of the factory to eliminate that concern.

Edit: I forgot to mention an AG reinforcement. It's headed to Paramushiro Jima, where it'll disband in port to support 4x MTBs that are stationed there.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 3/1/2010 1:22:05 AM >

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Post #: 491

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 2:04:03 AM

Mike Solli

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Here's Burma. The stack just east of Prome (and headed there) is 2/3 of the 33 Division. To the east of them is about a division's worth of stuff; most of 15 Army. They're following the 33 Division. Farther north is the tank regiment that scattered some support units. Rangoon will soon be cut off.

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Post #: 492

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 2:10:27 AM

Mike Solli

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Heading south, we see Malaya. My army is moving into Singapore. They'll arrive soon. Then the siege begins. The TFs in the red box is the Java invasion force. They're heading to Singkawang where they'll refuel, if needed. There are several surface TFs at Singkawang, ranging from BBs down to DDs, as well as some minesweepers. They'll support the invasion. Stationed at Billiton is 18 Zeros, 30 Oscars, 9 Claudes (no, they can't be upgraded), 45 Nells, 27 Sallys and recon to support the invasion, suppress the airfields (Palembang and Batavia), and keep enemy fleets away. The invasion is just a few days out.

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Post #: 493

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 2:14:40 AM

Mike Solli

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Here's Ambon, showing my recon coverage. You can see KB heading toward Babeldaob to refuel. I'll leave 1 CV there to repair accumulating sys damage. The other 3 will fill out their lost planes (just a few) and probably head back into the SRA, but I'm not sure yet. Just about all of the 22 Air Flotilla (along with the HQ) is at Ambon, supported by 36 Oscars from the 5 Air Division.

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 2:18:19 AM

CapAndGown

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How do you get the game to show all those search arcs at the same time?

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Post #: 495

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 2:19:25 AM

Mike Solli

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Pt. Moresby. You can see the remnants of the Allied PM garrison just to the NW of Pt. Moresby. Ted's small garrisons just to the SW of Lae are fleeing to the SW, across the mountains. I think that's a mistake on his part. That'll kill them. Soon I get more SE Fleet ground units so I can continue to expand into the Solomons. I also want to take that island in the Torres Strait. I'll then mine the strait to keep Ted from moving through it. In addition, I have a bunch of Bettys at Rabaul. I'll move a chutai or two to PM later, when it is more secure.

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 2:19:56 AM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

How do you get the game to show all those search arcs at the same time?

Hit the "Z" key. Very useful.

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Post #: 497

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 2:20:56 AM

Mike Solli

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Stats.

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Post #: 498

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 2:22:06 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
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Ship loss breakdown:

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Post #: 499

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 2:35:25 AM

Q-Ball

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Mike;

Imperial Headquarters sez it's Feb 1, and you need to pick up the pace towards Timor. You need to grab it and clear it, and get boots on Australia ASAP before they have a chance to build up strength in Darwin.

You're not doing badly, but try to set aside your need for order to satisfy your need for SPEED. Get reckless, Samurai!

Or I could be wrong, but that's my 2 yen

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Post #: 500

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 3:03:31 AM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Mike;

Imperial Headquarters sez it's Feb 1, and you need to pick up the pace towards Timor. You need to grab it and clear it, and get boots on Australia ASAP before they have a chance to build up strength in Darwin.

You're not doing badly, but try to set aside your need for order to satisfy your need for SPEED. Get reckless, Samurai!

Or I could be wrong, but that's my 2 yen

Actually, you're right, Q-Ball. I do need to pick up the pace. I'm thinking of using 4 Div to take Timor before they move on to Java(if they go to Java). Also, 20 Div is going to be bought out of Korea to take S Borneo and then points south.

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 3:07:24 AM

Mike Solli

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Finally, here's how the economy has shaped up this last month. Supply looks good. Fuel is down, but most of my fleet is moving. Everything else looks good. The +31 in oil is repair of Miri. My pilot losses has spiked lately, due to the bombing of Singapore and Bataan. Most of the pilot losses are IJA.

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< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 3/1/2010 3:08:08 AM >

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 4:15:42 AM

CapAndGown

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Your merchant points look whacked. Why aren't you building merchant marine stuff? And your pilot reserves look very bad. How is your training program going? You should be to the point where you are adding pilots to the reserve.

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Post #: 503

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 4:37:39 AM

erstad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Your merchant points look whacked. Why aren't you building merchant marine stuff?

There's a sizable surplus of merchant yard points at the beginning of the war. But you need to stockpile them as it turns to a cumulative deficit later. The former statement assumes you don't accelerate stuff excessively, the latter statement assumes you want everything eventually.

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Post #: 504

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 1:30:51 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Your merchant points look whacked. Why aren't you building merchant marine stuff? And your pilot reserves look very bad. How is your training program going? You should be to the point where you are adding pilots to the reserve.

I'm saving merchant points for the reason erstad mentioned. I'll need them later. I am accelerating nothing in the merchant arena.

My pilot reserves "look" bad because I add them about a week before I think I'm going to need them. I added a bunch early in the game from my training air units that had good pilots and then replaced the training units with rookies. I left a few good pilots and usually the mediocre ones as well. I'd rather keep the pilots training as long as possible. They still gain experience, but slowly. In reserve, they don't gain anything.

Most of the initial reserve pilots were used to reinforce KB when I resized their air units.

I am training a lot of pilots.

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 1:30:53 PM

Mike Solli

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I have all of the air units in Manchuoko and Japan maxed with pilots as well as many in the forward HQ that aren't in combat. Most of my forward air units have some extra rookie pilots in them to train the hard way. It's actually working very well with most of them training and gaining experience most days.

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 3/1/2010 1:32:23 PM >

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 2:44:31 PM

CapAndGown

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Your merchant points look whacked. Why aren't you building merchant marine stuff? And your pilot reserves look very bad. How is your training program going? You should be to the point where you are adding pilots to the reserve.

I'm saving merchant points for the reason erstad mentioned. I'll need them later. I am accelerating nothing in the merchant arena.

My pilot reserves "look" bad because I add them about a week before I think I'm going to need them. I added a bunch early in the game from my training air units that had good pilots and then replaced the training units with rookies. I left a few good pilots and usually the mediocre ones as well. I'd rather keep the pilots training as long as possible. They still gain experience, but slowly. In reserve, they don't gain anything.

Most of the initial reserve pilots were used to reinforce KB when I resized their air units.

I am training a lot of pilots.

I don't think this is the best way to look at your reserve. For the IJN you have ~1500 replacement pilots. For the IJA you have ~2000 replacements. (Are you playing SCN 1?) These guys have exp of ~35 and no skills to speak of. What you need to do, IMO, is pull as many of these replacement pilots out of the pool as possible and get their skill levels up. Also their EXP. If you can get their EXP into the 50s and their skills (however many different skills you want for the various types, such as cross training in NavB and NavS or ASW) into the 60s, you should dump them in the reserve and start pulling more pilots out of the replacement pool. Basically, you have no reserves to speak of should you have a sustained heavy draw on pilots. All you have is what is in your training squadrons.

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RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 2:49:57 PM

USSAmerica

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Good stuff, Mike. I subscribed when you first started the AAR, but then got way to busy for reading. I read almost the entire AAR over the weekend and finished up this morning. You're doing very well in my book. Taking PM early and killing some quality Allied ships there was very well done.

Good luck and good hunting!

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Post #: 508

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/1/2010 2:58:17 PM

USSAmerica

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

Your merchant points look whacked. Why aren't you building merchant marine stuff? And your pilot reserves look very bad. How is your training program going? You should be to the point where you are adding pilots to the reserve.

I'm saving merchant points for the reason erstad mentioned. I'll need them later. I am accelerating nothing in the merchant arena.

My pilot reserves "look" bad because I add them about a week before I think I'm going to need them. I added a bunch early in the game from my training air units that had good pilots and then replaced the training units with rookies. I left a few good pilots and usually the mediocre ones as well. I'd rather keep the pilots training as long as possible. They still gain experience, but slowly. In reserve, they don't gain anything.

Most of the initial reserve pilots were used to reinforce KB when I resized their air units.

I am training a lot of pilots.

I don't think this is the best way to look at your reserve. For the IJN you have ~1500 replacement pilots. For the IJA you have ~2000 replacements. (Are you playing SCN 1?) These guys have exp of ~35 and no skills to speak of. What you need to do, IMO, is pull as many of these replacement pilots out of the pool as possible and get their skill levels up. Also their EXP. If you can get their EXP into the 50s and their skills (however many different skills you want for the various types, such as cross training in NavB and NavS or ASW) into the 60s, you should dump them in the reserve and start pulling more pilots out of the replacement pool. Basically, you have no reserves to speak of should you have a sustained heavy draw on pilots. All you have is what is in your training squadrons.

Hmmm.... the war is only about 8 weeks old. How many "untrained" pilots can reasonable be trained on map up to around 50+ experience in 8 weeks? I like the idea of pulling as many raw recruit pilots as possible onto the map to train and then stashing the resulting "average" pilots in the reserve. I just think it will take more time to get this moving along.

Mike, how are your raw recruit pilots progressing on map?

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Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

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(in reply to CapAndGown)

Post #: 509

RE: Here we go again! tc464 (A) vs. Mike (J) - No tc464 - 3/3/2010 5:08:13 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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Mike, you're right about the pilot training. I scan the training air units every couple of days and cull off those that are good enough for my front line. I look at the skill and not the overall experience level. For the IJN, >70 is the minimum. It's usually lower for the IJA, but not much. Every training group has one very experienced pilot as well as a high quality commander. That seems to help out a lot.

The way I look at replacement pilots, there are two schools of thought.

First: You can train the pilots up to ~70 or so experience. They will be better trained but you'll have fewer of them available as replacements.

Second: You can train them up to ~50 or so experience then through them into the general reserve. You'll most likely have a much larger general reserve but the quality will suffer.

I'm taking a risk using option 1 but am going to hedge my bets somewhat. I am going to identify some of my training units to train up to ~60 (maybe 6 or 8 units tops). This will be my reserve when I take some large losses, which is inevitable.

My frontline units are primarily high quality pilots. They continue to gain experience and suffer few losses. What I have begun to do is to add rookies to some of them in excess of the maximum size of the units. I increase the training of the unit to 10-20% and those rookies rise pretty fast. I'm not sure if it's the best thing to do, but it seems to work well. We'll see what happens when my expansion stops and Ted's airforce comes into play.

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(in reply to USSAmerica)

Post #: 510

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