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Optimum CV Task Force - 7/10/2002 3:17:34 PM   
Von_Frag

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 5/7/2002
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		How do you guys make up your CV TF's? # CV's in 1 TF, 3 seperate TF's? What ships do you include to protect the CV's?
Just looking for a general consensus.

Von Frag
Post #: 1
- 7/10/2002 5:10:52 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		I'm playing Operation MO as the IJN and currently have three 1 CV TF's. They're moving together with the hope they will coordinate strikes better and optimize AA fire.

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 2
- 7/10/2002 6:23:29 PM   
thantis

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Cooksville, MD
Status: offline 		Multiple CVs in different task forces, but in the same hex can force your opponents airstrikes to split up, making it easier for your AA & CAP to handle.

As for defense, I try not to go over 10 ships to maximize the available AA without suffering the penalties of too many ships. Optimally, I try to have:

1 CV
1 BB (fast)
1 - 2 CLAA
1 - 2 CA or CL (if CLAA not available)
6 - 7 DD

Overall, this seems to do pretty well for me.

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 3
- 7/10/2002 8:19:48 PM   
11Bravo


Posts: 2082
Joined: 4/5/2001
Status: offline 		I am a clueless newbie, but I will share my thoughts for your amusement.

My generic CV TF is

CV's, whatever number needed to pull off the mission
4CA or 2CA+2CLAA
8DD

If the threat of air attack is high, more ships with good AA go in. I disregard the "10 ship rule" because each additional ship provides AA benefit and dilutes enemy attack by providing more lower value targets.

If I'm feeling lucky, I split off some escorts at the tail end of the mission. The escorts pull off a bombardment mission at the local forward enemy base, while the CV's provide LR-CAP and run for home.

_____________________________

Squatting in the bush and marking it on a map.

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Post #: 4
- 7/10/2002 8:27:15 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		Quote

"I disregard the "10 ship rule" because each additional ship provides AA benefit and dilutes enemy attack by providing more lower value targets."

I love these type of discussions. Sounds just like the Avalon Hill magazine of old - The General.

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 5
- 7/10/2002 9:03:21 PM   
Wilhammer

 

Posts: 449
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: Out in the Sticks of Rockingham County, North Caro
Status: offline 		You might want to scrap the destroyers if you need to go long, esp for the IJN.

They slow a TF down due to short durations requiring at sea replenishment from the bigger obys in the TF.

but yeah, the multiple TF thing in one hex is the way to go. It is a squadron to squadron basis that air combat decisions are made, so you get the same amount of cap in a hex regardless if the TF is a one solid group or many small ones.

Because target selection is forst done TF by TF, then ship by ship, per air unit, the result is the enemy massed force plits up before each TF, end encounters the same CAP force as each TF defends itself.

The Air Command AI is forced to split up the attack, while the defending CAP is not split up, giving the edge to the defense.

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 6
- 7/10/2002 9:30:22 PM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		I used to go with 1 CV per TF, but I've since decided that 2 CV TF's are the way to go. I also always use 8 escorts per TF, as AA is much more effective, and smaller TF's sometimes aren't even spotted.

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I give approximately two fifths of a !#$% at any given time!

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Post #: 7
- 7/10/2002 11:20:37 PM   
11Bravo


Posts: 2082
Joined: 4/5/2001
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wilhammer
[B]You might want to scrap the destroyers if you need to go long, esp for the IJN.

They slow a TF down due to short durations requiring at sea replenishment from the bigger obys in the TF.

but yeah, the multiple TF thing in one hex is the way to go. It is a squadron to squadron basis that air combat decisions are made, so you get the same amount of cap in a hex regardless if the TF is a one solid group or many small ones.

Because target selection is forst done TF by TF, then ship by ship, per air unit, the result is the enemy massed force plits up before each TF, end encounters the same CAP force as each TF defends itself.

The Air Command AI is forced to split up the attack, while the defending CAP is not split up, giving the edge to the defense. [/B][/QUOTE]

Eeeeeexceelllleeent! Smithers, release the CV's!

_____________________________

Squatting in the bush and marking it on a map.

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 8
Re: Optimum CV Task Force - 7/11/2002 2:00:04 AM   
Von_Frag

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 5/7/2002
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Von_Frag
[B]How do you guys make up your CV TF's? # CV's in 1 TF, 3 seperate TF's? What ships do you include to protect the CV's?
Just looking for a general consensus.

Von Frag [/B][/QUOTE]

I wrote this about 3 in the morning, the brain was not functioning properly, it should read 3 CV's in a task force. :rolleyes:

Now: very interesting spread of results. I tend to use the following:
1 CV
1 CA
2 CLAA
6 DD

I now have CVL's as well, and sometimes I substitute a CVL for a DD.

Von Frag

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 9
AA penality - 7/11/2002 1:11:00 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Folks just so everyone is on the same page
more then 10 ships does not subtract from AA
11 ships have more AA then 10, that 11th ship is not as effective as the other 10 but still provides an increase to the TF as a whole.
so while 15 ships are not 1.5 times the AA they are measurably more then just 10. 5 more ships at .75percent still equals 13.75 versus the un penalized 10

I make CV TF based first on speed of CV/CVL
IJN TF often are 2 CV 1 CVL 2-3CA/CL (for float plane search and AA/surface combat protection) and then 1-2 DD for each CV/CVL/CA for protection against subs (all you forget the DD people wait till your TF ends turn in a hex with 1 or more subs)
TF size not to exceed 15 (above 15 TF size effects leader and that DOES have a negative effect)

When I decide to send a CV TF out I will first have a replenishment TF move to area CV TF will pass through on way to mission site. CV TF will refuel from oilers before entering combat zone. Make a small surface combat TF (1-2 CA/CL 4 DD) have this TF follow CV then if you decide you need a bombardment/surface combat TF you have one in same hex with leader to transfer ships to (otherwise a ships Captain will command new TF) This smaller force also provides another target-support group.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 10
- 7/11/2002 1:50:17 PM   
dgaad

 

Posts: 864
Joined: 7/25/2001
From: Hockeytown
Status: offline 		Isn't most Optimum grown in Afghanistan? Or, was?

_____________________________

Last time I checked, the forums were messed up. ;)

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Post #: 11
astonished - 7/11/2002 2:49:24 PM   
Chiteng

 

Posts: 7666
Joined: 2/20/2001
From: Raleigh,nc,usa
Status: offline 		I am amazed,

Oh well I guess I am just lazy:

I put 4 CV per task force with 25 ships per task force.

Guess I am just foolish eh =)

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 12
Re: astonished - 7/11/2002 5:00:14 PM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chiteng
[B]I am amazed,

Oh well I guess I am just lazy:

I put 4 CV per task force with 25 ships per task force.

Guess I am just foolish eh =) [/B][/QUOTE]

Not at all. That can actually be a valid tactic. If you have a 2 or 3:1 advantage in CV's, placing them all in one TF can better help coordinate your strikes.

_____________________________

I give approximately two fifths of a !#$% at any given time!

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 13
send them alone - 7/12/2002 2:28:56 AM   
brisd


Posts: 614
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline 		I recommend you place your ships into single ship TF's as CAP and flak are ineffective against heavy bombers. With so many targets, some are sure to survive a few days against their numerous attacks.

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 14
- 7/12/2002 3:47:42 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		What I found effective in one particular PBEM (as USN) was to turn my CVs upside down, exposing the rounded bottoms of their hulls. This gave an "angled armor" effect, and made the bombs simply glance off, and torpedoes to "ski-jump" over them...

The only trouble is that this tactic only works once... :(

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 15
- 7/12/2002 3:49:37 AM   
dgaad

 

Posts: 864
Joined: 7/25/2001
From: Hockeytown
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Admiral DadMan
[B]What I found effective in one particular PBEM (as USN) was to turn my CVs upside down, exposing the rounded bottoms of their hulls. This gave an "angled armor" effect, and made the bombs simply glance off, and torpedoes to "ski-jump" over them...

The only trouble is that this tactic only works once... :( [/B][/QUOTE]

Another advantage to this tactic is that an enemy will report a spot of subs, rather than CVs. They don't become subs till a few days later, and even then they are only subs for a few hours before becoming a reef, or an anomalous marine terrain feature.

_____________________________

Last time I checked, the forums were messed up. ;)

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Post #: 16
- 7/12/2002 3:55:21 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		Yes, and I believe the tactic is called "turning turtle". It is preceded by lots of smoke for camouflage, and fire for cooking marshmallows...

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 17
- 7/12/2002 3:57:06 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		Wait, I believe it's TOASTing marshmallows. One cooks hot dogs on such a fire...

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 18
I See....... - 7/12/2002 10:41:44 AM   
Von_Frag

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 5/7/2002
From: Dallas, Texas
Status: offline 		........this thread has started its downhill slide with Dgaads optimum remark ( Delta has taken over that venture to pay for it's training and weapons ) and decidedly hit rock bottom with marshmellows and hot dogs. :D

I like it,

Von Frag

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 19
- 7/12/2002 10:49:29 AM   
dgaad

 

Posts: 864
Joined: 7/25/2001
From: Hockeytown
Status: offline 		I'm always happy to contribute to the decay of reason.

_____________________________

Last time I checked, the forums were messed up. ;)

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 20
decay of reason - 7/12/2002 11:00:39 AM   
Bosun


Posts: 136
Joined: 4/22/2002
From: High Mountains
Status: offline 		Entropy fails to rule only if we strive to impose our will on the God given universe. Personally I like hamburgers and smores.

_____________________________

A WILLING FOE AND SEA ROOM...

ANONYMOUS

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 21
Re: decay of reason - 7/12/2002 11:09:02 AM   
dgaad

 

Posts: 864
Joined: 7/25/2001
From: Hockeytown
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bosun
[B]Entropy fails to rule only if we strive to impose our will on the God given universe. Personally I like hamburgers and smores. [/B][/QUOTE]

Hamburgers and smores give me inertia.

_____________________________

Last time I checked, the forums were messed up. ;)

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Post #: 22
- 7/12/2002 7:21:29 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by thantis
[B]Multiple CVs in different task forces, but in the same hex can force your opponents airstrikes to split up, making it easier for your AA & CAP to handle.

As for defense, I try not to go over 10 ships to maximize the available AA without suffering the penalties of too many ships. Optimally, I try to have:

1 CV
1 BB (fast)
1 - 2 CLAA
1 - 2 CA or CL (if CLAA not available)
6 - 7 DD

Overall, this seems to do pretty well for me. [/B][/QUOTE]

Not enough BB's and CLAA's to go around for all the CV's. 10 ships is ideal, the AA factor of the BB (fast) and the CLAA is very close. So I use
1- CV
1- BB (fast) or 1-CLAA
2- CA's (pick late models they have more AA)
6- DD's (pick late models they have more AA, with high duration)

(in reply to Von_Frag)
Post #: 23
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