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The finnish front- just an idea. Though its too late.

 
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The finnish front- just an idea. Though its too late. - 3/6/2010 3:30:15 AM   
Muzrub


Posts: 1780
Joined: 2/23/2001
From: Australia, Queensland, Gold coast
Status: offline 		I know it is probably to late (actually I'm sure).
But I'm just throwing this out there!

With the issues that surround the Finnish front- I think most of us are aware of those- should the Finnish front be computer controlled- AI?

Also with it being an AI front it could work under the same rules of the Western front in WIR- if the Soviets do not defend it with the correct amount of troops, the front falls and the Finns could invade from the North providing certain requirements are met, they could maybe even revert to player control in such a case.

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RE: The finnish front- just an idea. Though its too late. - 3/6/2010 11:29:58 AM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		The need for the Soviets to properly defend the line has been discussed.  Don't know if there has been a final decision on how to do that yet.  Our focus is on other parts of the game right now.

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(in reply to Muzrub)
Post #: 2
RE: The finnish front- just an idea. Though its too late. - 3/7/2010 9:17:23 AM   
Muzrub


Posts: 1780
Joined: 2/23/2001
From: Australia, Queensland, Gold coast
Status: offline 		Cheers for the reply.

I think the idea would clear up a few issues.
+ In WIR the Finnish forces were very strong- I imagine their rather strong in this new re-imagining of the Eastern front.

It just seems to me, that the German player could abuse the Finnish success against the Soviets and disregard the Political issues that surrounded the use of Finnish forces during 41-45 (seeing as Hitler, or the German high command had very little control -if any- in real life).

< Message edited by Muzrub -- 3/7/2010 9:19:20 AM >

_____________________________

Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Iraq, and i have seen
Things are not what they seem.


Matrix Axis of Evil

(in reply to elmo3)
Post #: 3
RE: The finnish front- just an idea. Though its too late. - 3/7/2010 11:02:49 AM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		We kicked this around so much. Yes it has its flaws, but for play balance it came at this...I expolited the game early with the Finns, we changed it, and mabe if they had done that, the war may have changed... We did the changes and were living with it. I think for the better...

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Post #: 4
RE: The finnish front- just an idea. Though its too late. - 3/11/2010 3:47:05 PM   
JJKettunen


Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Muzrub
It just seems to me, that the German player could abuse the Finnish success against the Soviets and disregard the Political issues that surrounded the use of Finnish forces during 41-45 (seeing as Hitler, or the German high command had very little control -if any- in real life).


It is not just the political issues. Between autumn 1941 and winter 1942 the Finnish Army demobilised over 30 battalions of (mainly) infantry according to earlier plans. After that the divisions had only two regiments and one battalion of infantry left, compared to three regiments and one battalion earlier. Combine this with serious supply issues (FE a food crisis in the winter of 1941-42), and you can see that the Finnish forces lacked punch.

I'd be in favour of disregarding the No Attack Line (or whatever it's called), and making it harder to advance with the Finnish forces due to their organisational changes and supply situation.

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RE: The finnish front- just an idea. Though its too late. - 3/11/2010 3:55:23 PM   
JJKettunen


Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Also, because of the precarious supply situation, the offensive, in the area the game covers, had been made in two phases: first on July 1941 NE of Ladoga and then the Karelian Isthmus on August (roughly speaking). So it was not a simultaneous blitz on a wide front, which the game seems to allow, and which makes exploiting the success easier.

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Jyri Kettunen

The eternal privilege of those who never act themselves: to interrogate, be dissatisfied, find fault.

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Post #: 6
RE: The finnish front- just an idea. Though its too late. - 3/11/2010 7:43:04 PM   
B455

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:


I'd be in favour of disregarding the No Attack Line (or whatever it's called), and making it harder to advance with the Finnish forces due to their organisational changes and supply situation.


Yes, something along those lines... in real life there was no "no attack line" drawn on Soviet planning maps, it's all hindsight here. The Red Army had to fight and so they did. I think Finnish units should not be too strong and also supply/manpower issues forced the Finnish Army to attack somewhat cautiously - maybe the historical separate assault north of Ladoga first and on Karelian Isthmus secondly was not a mandatory decision, or maybe it was, it has not been studied thoroughly as far as I recall. And I agree that Finnish force should become "diminished" by 1942.

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Post #: 7
RE: The finnish front- just an idea. Though its too late. - 3/12/2010 9:37:23 AM   
Sentinel Six

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 9/3/2009
Status: offline 		Rather than a Finnish no attack line implement limited resources (supply, replacements etc) for the Finns, that way the player would face the same restrictions as in real life and would have to think carefully about how he used his limited forces, ie if there is a coherent Soviet line in front of his positions then it wouldn't be worth the Finns effort to attack, where as if there is a single Soviet inf. btn. in a section of the front line opposed by a Finnish inf. div. the Finns could attack with minimal losses and gain ground. 

This would mean the Soviets would need suitable forces in the front line or risk being pushed back and the Finns would have to think very carefully about how to use their limited forces to best effect. This would be far more realistic than what is being implemented at the moment.


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Post #: 8
RE: The finnish front- just an idea. Though its too late. - 3/13/2010 6:50:51 AM   
Captain B


Posts: 386
Joined: 8/30/2009
From: Knoxville, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Along those same lines...A TOE change to a smaller division by mandatory withdraw of the starting divisions (like what happens to certain forces that go to the western front) on a set schedule and they can be replaced by smaller divisions with different TOEs as reinforcements? I think something can be done here to keep the Fins in the war....but not too much in the war.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke


quote:

ORIGINAL: Muzrub
It just seems to me, that the German player could abuse the Finnish success against the Soviets and disregard the Political issues that surrounded the use of Finnish forces during 41-45 (seeing as Hitler, or the German high command had very little control -if any- in real life).


It is not just the political issues. Between autumn 1941 and winter 1942 the Finnish Army demobilised over 30 battalions of (mainly) infantry according to earlier plans. After that the divisions had only two regiments and one battalion of infantry left, compared to three regiments and one battalion earlier. Combine this with serious supply issues (FE a food crisis in the winter of 1941-42), and you can see that the Finnish forces lacked punch.

I'd be in favour of disregarding the No Attack Line (or whatever it's called), and making it harder to advance with the Finnish forces due to their organisational changes and supply situation.



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(in reply to JJKettunen)
Post #: 9
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