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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/13/2010 9:10:15 PM

sfbaytf

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I have an idea why Pelileu may be the focus of the series. 30 years ago our family was close to someone who fought there. (eventually spent 30 years in the military and retired in the 70's after a distinguished career) I don't know a lot of the details - was never really discussed much and some of what I do know was told to me by my father and what I heard from the persons wife-she definately had an opinion about the battle and wasn't shy about saying what she thought.

Basically all were discusted on so many levels about the whole affair. That's the long and short of it. Many believed then and to this day that Pelileu should have never been fought and should have just been bypassed.

I agree 100% that combat never really does leave one. The memories will always remain.

(in reply to Lifer)

Post #: 31

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/13/2010 9:18:36 PM

Kull

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

I have an idea why Pelileu may be the focus of the series. 30 years ago our family was close to someone who fought there. (eventually spent 30 years in the military and retired in the 70's after a distinguished career) I don't know a lot of the details - was never really discussed much and some of what I do know was told to me by my father and what I heard from the persons wife-she definately had an opinion about the battle and wasn't shy about saying what she thought.

I'm beginning to think you're right. If this really is the focus of the whole show, it fits right into the current Hollywood War Movie ethos. And that's a not a good thing.

(in reply to sfbaytf)

Post #: 32

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/13/2010 10:30:39 PM

Reg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Excellent news.

A�shame that it is about ground troopers again like in Band of Brother. It would have been really interesting with�pilots or sailors.�

Oh please don't encourage them.... (Sorry Elf).

There are heaps of films out there on featuring pilots and ships (Baa Baa Black sheep, Flying Leathernecks, Midway, etc, etc) though swabbies are usually strangely absent. There have been precious few films made on the ground pounders who had to sleep in the mud and could not retire back to the crew room and the bar at the end of the day. Please let them have heir moment of glory (/recognition?).

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Post #: 33

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/13/2010 10:31:05 PM

sfbaytf

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I really can't say. For the longest time Hollywood tended to glorify war and made very unrealistic movies. My fathers and others could barely stand to watch them-besides they had other things they'd rather do. I don't know what he thinks about the newer crop of movies that are far more realistic-if he's bother to even watch them. I don't ask and we'd rather talk about other things like fishing.

Most of the others in his generation who I knew including the Major have long since passed away. All I have is the memories and the medals and other stuff they were kind enough to leave me. The one thing I did take away from their war experiences was overwhelming fear and discust at the killing and destruction. Those days war movies were hardly as gritty and realistic as today so I had no idea of what it was really like, so it was good to get a counter balancing perspective.

I don't think they wanted to dwell on what they did in the war once they got back home. For the longest time my fathers attitude towards the military and war was ambivalent. He certainly was not the type of person who wanted to solve everything by fighting and he was never was very political either. He thought politics was a bunch of b.s. and politicians were idiots who couldn't make a living doing something useful.

I'm just going to watch "The Pacific" and take it for what it is.

(in reply to Kull)

Post #: 34

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/13/2010 11:36:23 PM

Kull

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

I'm just going to watch "The Pacific" and take it for what it is.

One of the many things that made Band of Brothers so interesting is how it followed a single unit of the 101st Airborne through all their battles. So it gave you a good mixture of successes and failures, and I felt it to be rather balanced on that basis. In this case we have the 1st Marine division, so one might expect to follow one of its units through the whole Pacific Campaign, which includes Guadalcanal, Peleliu, and finally Okinawa. But if the focus is only the middle battle (and at this stage we don't have anything more than a review to indicate that might be the case), than it raises the question of "why only that one"?

I guess we'll soon find out.

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Post #: 35

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/14/2010 1:12:04 AM

Reg

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

quote:

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

I'm just going to watch "The Pacific" and take it for what it is.

One of the many things that made Band of Brothers so interesting is how it followed a single unit of the 101st Airborne through all their battles. So it gave you a good mixture of successes and failures, and I felt it to be rather balanced on that basis. In this case we have the 1st Marine division, so one might expect to follow one of its units through the whole Pacific Campaign, which includes Guadalcanal, Peleliu, and finally Okinawa. But if the focus is only the middle battle (and at this stage we don't have anything more than a review to indicate that might be the case), than it raises the question of "why only that one"?

I guess we'll soon find out.

I believe from what has already been said that the producers wanted to cover a greater scope of the course of the war.

No single unit was everywhere so they made the decision to base the screenplay upon three novels that together covered most of the material they wanted to present.

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Post #: 36

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/14/2010 2:18:38 AM

jb123

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

quote:

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

I'm just going to watch "The Pacific" and take it for what it is.

One of the many things that made Band of Brothers so interesting is how it followed a single unit of the 101st Airborne through all their battles. So it gave you a good mixture of successes and failures, and I felt it to be rather balanced on that basis. In this case we have the 1st Marine division, so one might expect to follow one of its units through the whole Pacific Campaign, which includes Guadalcanal, Peleliu, and finally Okinawa. But if the focus is only the middle battle (and at this stage we don't have anything more than a review to indicate that might be the case), than it raises the question of "why only that one"?

I guess we'll soon find out.

The series is based on two authors, loosely. In his book one of the authors, Sledge, bemoaned the fact that most Americans never heard of peleliu. We (grognards, and history enthusiasts) may find this strange. But it was and continues to be true. It was a terrible battle that got little press, probably because it was terrible.

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Post #: 37

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/14/2010 3:02:17 AM

sfbaytf

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The last Japanese soldiers holding out on Peleiu finally surrendered in 1947.�

In the 70's another die hard Japanese soldier was convinced the war was over and finally surrendered.

I can only imagine his culture shock when he returned to Japan.

< Message edited by sfbaytf -- 3/14/2010 3:08:49 AM >

(in reply to jb123)

Post #: 38

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/14/2010 4:10:56 AM

Misconduct

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

The last Japanese soldiers holding out on Peleiu finally surrendered in 1947.�

In the 70's another die hard Japanese soldier was convinced the war was over and finally surrendered.

I can only imagine his culture shock when he returned to Japan.

Yeah they are busy getting married to cushion pillows.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/playlist/view/126115/Man-weds-cushion/

/how does one go from Kamakazi to this I have no clue?

(in reply to sfbaytf)

Post #: 39

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/14/2010 10:40:39 AM

mike scholl 1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jb123
The series is based on two authors, loosely. In his book one of the authors, Sledge, bemoaned the fact that most Americans never heard of peleliu. We (grognards, and history enthusiasts) may find this strange. But it was and continues to be true. It was a terrible battle that got little press, probably because it was terrible.

And I imagine even more ignored because it turned out to be totally unnecessary. Decisions that wind up being embarrassing for the High Command tend to get swept under the rug. The only worthwhile thing captured during this campaign turned out to be the undefended Ulithi Atoll...

(in reply to jb123)

Post #: 40

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/14/2010 1:17:13 PM

Joe D.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lifer

My screen name comes from the saying, "I'm no lifer, I'm going to do my four years and get the @#$% out." Being called a lifer was an insult my first enlistment. Retired in 2003 so the term became sort of a joke among those who were in for a career. My son and daughter (both grown btw) still have the postcards I sent written on the cardboard sleeves from the covers of MRE food from Iraq ...

Is the postage still free?

During Desert Storm, I sent several rolls of undeveloped film to one of our forward units from in-country, but it ended-up going to Saudi via stateside!

Well, at least the round-trip delivery didn't cost me anything.

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Post #: 41

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/14/2010 5:52:29 PM

sfbaytf

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I've been to Japan once and that was only briefly. I would like to take a longer vists sometime. I hear from others who've lived there that you see things and behaivors that are considered bizzare in the West.

Also in some of the "fashion districts" you'll see some very bizzare dress styles.

I guess the stress of a workaholic lifestyle and crowded conditions leads to all this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Misconduct

quote:

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

The last Japanese soldiers holding out on Peleiu finally surrendered in 1947.�

In the 70's another die hard Japanese soldier was convinced the war was over and finally surrendered.

I can only imagine his culture shock when he returned to Japan.

Yeah they are busy getting married to cushion pillows.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/playlist/view/126115/Man-weds-cushion/

/how does one go from Kamakazi to this I have no clue?

(in reply to Misconduct)

Post #: 42

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/14/2010 9:47:41 PM

mike scholl 1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

I've been to Japan once and that was only briefly. I would like to take a longer vists sometime. I hear from others who've lived there that you see things and behaivors that are considered bizzare in the West.

Also in some of the "fashion districts" you'll see some very bizzare dress styles.

I guess the stress of a workaholic lifestyle and crowded conditions leads to all this.

Have you taken a good look at some of the bizarre looking garbage and styles that come out of American or European "fashion districts"? I'd guess it has more to do with people who finally have "disposable income" finding stupid ways to spend it...

(in reply to sfbaytf)

Post #: 43

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 4:55:35 AM

Kull

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Listening to Roosevelt there at the beginning, I wondered for a second if AE was playing on the big screen.

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Post #: 44

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 4:58:11 AM

Brady

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Anyone catch the errors in the opening sceans?

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Obi-wan Kenobi said it best: A lot of the reality we perceive depend on our point of view

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Post #: 45

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 7:26:13 AM

zzodr

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So how was it? Here is Aus we have to wait till April to see it.. even though most of it was filmed here... lame.

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Post #: 46

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 8:56:18 AM

Brady

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Lots of eye candie, the atention to detail was impresive (springfields) ext..., The action well done, the acting fine, and I cant wait for next week....

NetFlix has ruined me, I love binging on a new (to me) series, having to wait a week is a killer

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Post #: 47

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 9:21:21 AM

jeffs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sfbaytf

I've been to Japan once and that was only briefly. I would like to take a longer vists sometime. I hear from others who've lived there that you see things and behaivors that are considered bizzare in the West.

Also in some of the "fashion districts" you'll see some very bizzare dress styles.

I guess the stress of a workaholic lifestyle and crowded conditions leads to all this.

Several points... I have lived in Japan the last 20 years.....
The fashion is interesting. But I think Japanese women put themselves together fashion wise (on average) much better than women in other
Asian countries and probably better than the US. Yes, there are some rather strange fashions here...But as was pointed out, there is weird stuff in US/Europe.

If you do come to Japan, it well worth the effort to go to Yasukuni Shrine and the museum there (not that one needs to believe their take on the war). It is where the souls of those who fought for Japan are interred (hey, everybody is allowed strangeness in religious thought).

Yes, some behaviours are rather different....Some even bizarre..Like I can do a bike ride at the park near my house at 11 PM and not worry about being mugged or shot...Shocking.

Seriously (though not getting shot at it is a serious enough) it is rather different from the US (and I am assuming Europe, but I do not wish to comment on what I do not know) but not all the differences are bad. And young Japanese are around the least nationalistic people I have ever met (I see Koreans and Chinese as much more nationalistic in general).

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political and strategic mistakes live forever". The authors were refering to Japan but the same could be said of the US misadventure in Iraq

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Post #: 48

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 9:51:55 AM

John Lansford

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I watched the show last night; the first episode, of course, involves how the men ended up together for at least part of the hour. They didn't dwell on it for very long though, and cut right to the Marines landing on Guadalcanal.

The only part I had a problem with was the use of the landing craft; even my wife noticed that. The fight at the Alligator River was well done (noticed the single strand of barbed wire being strung across the sand bar), but the introspection afterwards looked kind of Hollywood-ish.

When did the 7th Marines land on Guadalcanal?

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 12:32:58 PM

spence

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The 7th Marines landed at the end of September I think. The time frame for the show has been accelerated a bit. It was almost 2 weeks after the landing that the Ichiki Detachment landed, attacked and got wiped out.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 12:33:31 PM

jeffs

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According to Frank`s Guadalcanal, page 251, the 7th Marines landed on SEP 18...On the way there the USN lost the Wasp

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 12:37:20 PM

jeffs

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Ichiki gets wasted at the Tenaru on Aug 21 and Edson`s Ridge Sep 12-13

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Post #: 52

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 12:41:56 PM

John Lansford

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They did show the Marines on a patrol, and found the remains of an earlier patrol that the Japanese had tortured and killed. IIRC until the Ichiki attack the Marines didn't do much more than patrol and establish a perimeter; the more serious assaults took place in October and November.

There was a scene where the men woke up to see Japanese ships (DD's?) offshore. I'm not so sure that ever happened but was probably necessary to show that they were truly alone on that island.

I did like the first episode; the 'impenetrable jungle', the climate, the boredom and gradual wearing down of the men even without combat were all shown. Every scene provided something important to the viewer.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 1:08:09 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I watched the show last night; the first episode, of course, involves how the men ended up together for at least part of the hour.� They didn't dwell on it for very long though, and cut right to the Marines landing on Guadalcanal.

The only part I had a problem with was the use of the landing craft; even my wife noticed that.� The fight at the Alligator River was well done (noticed the single strand of barbed wire being strung across the sand bar), but the introspection afterwards looked kind of Hollywood-ish.

When did the 7th Marines land on Guadalcanal?

I liked the episode and was watching for some aspects of realism. I'm not sure what you mean by the landing craft being used. Here's my take on the problem with the landing craft: I believe that there were too many LCVPs used and too few LCAs (although I saw at least one LCA in the scene).

The episode covered many weeks on Guadalcanal-note the reference to the boil that had been festering for one week, the battle at Alligator creek / mislabeled Tenaru, relief and reinforcement, passage of a birthday by a number of weeks, etc.

Did anybody see the 37mm AT gun that was instrumental in stemming the IJA tide at Tenaru / Alligator creek? I didn't see that shown anywhere. IIRC, it was firing canister shot into waves if IJA infantry crossing the sandbar.

Anyways, good start.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 1:11:53 PM

USSAmerica

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Sounds like an overall well done production, at least for the first episode. No HBO here, so it will be DVD for me one day.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 4:07:14 PM

jb123

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can't say I liked it fellows. I was a bit disappointed. Too many cliches. The characters were not built up. The night combat scene looked canned from the get-go. I spent 2004 in Fallujah as a Marine and even with all sorts of high-speed night time equipment, a night fight is a truly terrifying and absolutely confusing situation. I did not feel the moviemakers captured this at all. I am unsure how a movie could capture a night fight, but I know that some movies, band of brothers and saving private ryan, captured a few moments that really hit you in the gut. In particular, the rush into Foy (rushing into an occupied village across open ground, jesus, that's terrifying), and the terror of being on the receiving end of a bombardment. Having a run in with some Iraqi armor in 2003 as an infantryman with no real antitank assets, the scene in SPR (or the earlier Stalingrad) where the airborne guys go up against a tank hit me as very scary. Whether technically realistic or not (I never rushed a tank with a satchel charge, thank god, so I don't know how accurate the scene was), it captured a fatalistic mood which I could relate to.

I never felt this way with the Pacific. It looked like a CGI shootfest, and I didn't care one way or the other about the Marines or Japanese soldiers.

I wouldn't blame hollywood for the more "tender" moments. Leckie and Sledge were quite outspoken about the inhumanity of the situation. Again, the movie will probably have to fall back on some tired hollywood cliches to portray their thoughts, but they are the veterans' thoughts.

I did like the Marine banter (your sister!). We still talk the same way, I'd like to see more of this, as hollywood should be capable of capturing at least that aspect of war.

I was looking for the 37mm gun the whole time, didn't see it.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 6:38:56 PM

Stele

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I thought the episode was done well, but it felt so rushed! We're given the first 15-20 minutes to know the characters, but even then it really wasn't enough time like Band of Brothers. I guess I really shouldn't compare it to BoB since this approach may be entirely different, and I really haven't seen the rest of the series.

The fight on Guadalcanal seems a bit rushed too. There was a lot of stuff going on prior to Tenaru. Would have been interesting to see the initial attempted bombings of the landings.

The Tenaru battle was intense, and even more so with the singled out Japanese soldier. The morning scene of the aftermath had a big impact on the fight. We've all seen the actual pictures, but it was still an amazing shot. I was watching it with a group and someone actually started tearing up.

Visuals were great, and I'm sure a lot they made a lot of attention to detail. Should be interesting to watch the rest of the series.

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Post #: 57

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 6:45:01 PM

John Lansford

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From all accounts I've read of the Tenaru/Alligator River fight, last night's portrayal of it was fairly accurate. The Japanese appeared on the opposite bank, tried to cross the water itself, and were mowed down. Then they tried to cross the sand bar, hit the (one) strand of barbed wire, and were shot down by the MG and 37mm gun placed there. IIRC a few Japanese did get across further upstream and caused some confusion, but once Ichiki was killed the rest milled around until morning, when Marine tanks and a flanking maneuver crushed them completely. It was about as complete a victory as you could get, and taught the Marines that the Japanese weren't supermen, and that their tactics worked as expected.

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Post #: 58

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 6:47:00 PM

tocaff

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No HBO for me here in Brazil so I'll have to await the DVD release in the future.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 3/15/2010 6:58:29 PM

Roko

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"The Japanese have attacked Pearl Harbour, Hawaii
by air"
and we can see G3M Nell, and few seconds after Ki-30 Ann

There is a short glimpse of 37mm gun ( at 43:37 ) but only as decoration :)

< Message edited by Roko -- 3/15/2010 6:59:34 PM >

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