Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

PT boats? What good are they?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> PT boats? What good are they? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
PT boats? What good are they? - 3/17/2010 5:25:10 PM   
spartanwarrior

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline 		OK, i have tons of PT boats and every time i send them out to intercept japanese ships they avoid conflict? Are they any use and can someone tell me how best to use them? Ive tried day operations, night ops, setting them to human and computer controll and ive even had them intercept a CVl task force at night and both TF ran away from each other??
Post #: 1
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/17/2010 5:37:17 PM   
undercovergeek

 

Posts: 1526
Joined: 11/21/2006
From: UK
Status: offline 		point them at an unloading IJN TF - messy

(in reply to spartanwarrior)
Post #: 2
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/17/2010 6:25:25 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		The perfect annoyances for anyone who wants to run Fast Transport TF´s to supply a base near enemy air/sea superiority. Nice to isolate the base or use as cheap defense in forward areas
as my honoured opponent Rob Brennan demonstrates so skillfully.

And as I read in some AAR you can scare the s*** out of CV TF commanders...



_____________________________


(in reply to undercovergeek)
Post #: 3
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/17/2010 6:31:56 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		In separate PBEM games, both Q-Ball and I have been fortunate to have PT TFs really mess with Japanese carrier TFs in the confined waters of the DEI.  I also had PT TFs torpedo one or two BBs at Paramushiro Jima, damaging the TF badly enough that ultimately four BBs underwent attack and were destroyed. 

I've had many, many instances in which PT boats did nothing and were easily pushed aside or destroyed, but every now and then they can really deliver a punch to the Japanese.

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 4
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/17/2010 7:56:22 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline 		I am having trouble creating them at forward bases. I can produce all I want at PH...Any tricks? the manual says simple create a transport TF at a friendly port, load it with supplies, and press activate PTs. It does not appear to work at many of the SOPAC bases.

In some ways I like the WITP system where I had to ship them (as supplies) to a forward base on a transport TF created at a main port.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 5
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/17/2010 8:03:38 PM   
spartanwarrior

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline 		OK, i got it that PT boats can do some surprise damage. I had a situation where the jap CVL TF was in the DEI and I ran out like 8PT boats against them. they did nothing. They encountered the TF but both TF disengaged? Do I need to put the boats on a particular setting? I mean they should be suicidal given that they are cheap expenditures compared to a CV right? Even in real life a PT boat captian would most certain charge a carrier if they had the opportunity even knowing they would be destroyed in the process.

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 6
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/17/2010 8:40:57 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

I am having trouble creating them at forward bases. I can produce all I want at PH...Any tricks? the manual says simple create a transport TF at a friendly port, load it with supplies, and press activate PTs. It does not appear to work at many of the SOPAC bases.

In some ways I like the WITP system where I had to ship them (as supplies) to a forward base on a transport TF created at a main port.



you still can as long as you have some in the PT Pools , or as i do just for flavour and non magic PT appearances. Create the PT's in a closeish but major port then attach as many DD's as needed (for speed/fuel) and send them to the new base. Refuel the DD's and return.

Used short range and in coastal waters they can be quite useful and very hard for japan to get rid of them with LBA too.

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 7
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/17/2010 8:57:41 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

I am having trouble creating them at forward bases. I can produce all I want at PH...Any tricks? the manual says simple create a transport TF at a friendly port, load it with supplies, and press activate PTs. It does not appear to work at many of the SOPAC bases.


Sometimes your stockpile of PT boats will run low when you've created as many as you're eligible for. Then you have to wait until more are in your stockpile. You'll also need a decent amount of supplies at a base to order PT boats. I don't know the exact amount, but I'm pretty sure that 20k is a good benchmark. It may be less than that, but I have no problems when bases have that much supply.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 3/17/2010 8:59:25 PM >

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 8
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/17/2010 9:55:40 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

I am having trouble creating them at forward bases. I can produce all I want at PH...Any tricks? the manual says simple create a transport TF at a friendly port, load it with supplies, and press activate PTs. It does not appear to work at many of the SOPAC bases.


Sometimes your stockpile of PT boats will run low when you've created as many as you're eligible for. Then you have to wait until more are in your stockpile. You'll also need a decent amount of supplies at a base to order PT boats. I don't know the exact amount, but I'm pretty sure that 20k is a good benchmark. It may be less than that, but I have no problems when bases have that much supply.



Thanks for the tips guys! Yes my pools were low (though I don't recall creating more than 12 boats since the Day of Infamy), but I think the issue was the base HQ. When I paid the PPs to change to SWPAC, I had no problems. Apparantly there are not many Aussie, NZ or Free French MTBs in the Pacific in April of 42...maybe not a real surprise in retrospect...

One of the patches must have changed the process from the manual's description though. Now it is simply on the base screen.


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 9
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/17/2010 9:59:17 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

I am having trouble creating them at forward bases. I can produce all I want at PH...Any tricks? the manual says simple create a transport TF at a friendly port, load it with supplies, and press activate PTs. It does not appear to work at many of the SOPAC bases.

In some ways I like the WITP system where I had to ship them (as supplies) to a forward base on a transport TF created at a main port.



you still can as long as you have some in the PT Pools , or as i do just for flavour and non magic PT appearances. Create the PT's in a closeish but major port then attach as many DD's as needed (for speed/fuel) and send them to the new base. Refuel the DD's and return.

Used short range and in coastal waters they can be quite useful and very hard for japan to get rid of them with LBA too.

Thanks Rob.
I had not thought of using DDs as the milk cows. What cruise speed are you getting (in hexes) during transit? Any historical examples to support this method of transport (i.e. were they ever loaded on DDs to be moved forward that you are aware of)?

(in reply to Rob Brennan UK)
Post #: 10
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/17/2010 10:06:48 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		When in 1942 do they start to show up in numbers?

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 11
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/17/2010 10:29:21 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		I like to use them as poor man's barge escorts, subs tend to NOT surface and attack even PT boats.. otherwise they may surface and shot up the place. I also always station pt on new beacheads/bases, helps slow down the enemy raiders, even if all they do is engage and get shot up these are disposable assets as oposed to your high value transports, especially those with troops, and ocasionally you will even hit something...
usingthem to raid enemy fleets is tough due to their short legs.. possible but harder.. so, they are essentially free.. cost little, are slightly anoying in therelimitations but trust me, your oponent HATES them as they have the potential to threaten even the most stout Jap BB or CV!
Goodluck

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 12
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/18/2010 12:52:47 AM   
USS Henrico

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 8/2/2009
From: Charlottesville, VA
Status: offline 		Sometimes the PTs get lucky when they engage and fire at 2000 yards, sometimes they get surprised and blown away from 15k yards. There seems to be a good bit of randomness involved. But they are quite useful for annoying your opponent.

In my PBEM game, I recently had a courageous PT boat hit a Japanese BB with a torpedo off Java. As usual, the torpedo failed to explode...

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 13
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/18/2010 2:19:39 AM   
derhexer


Posts: 251
Joined: 9/19/2007
Status: offline 		As the Allied commander on a campaign game I've sent my PTs in Manila north to refuel at Lingayen, then attack the Japanese landing at Vigan. Got a couple of transports that way.

As the Japanese commander on a campaign game I've sometimes kept the KB from retiring after Pearl Harbor for a second day of airstrikes, and sent the Hiei and Kirishima in to shell PH. Sometime the PT boats come out and once the little buggers sank the Kirishimas

(in reply to USS Henrico)
Post #: 14
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/18/2010 2:59:50 AM   
Misconduct


Posts: 1864
Joined: 2/18/2009
From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
Status: offline 		PT boats are used tactically for close quarters combat against ships, For example I built up Port Moresby and put 2 task forces of 6 PT boats each since my warships went down to Sydney to get upgraded, sure enough the AI decides to send the Battleship Ise and a destroyer escort to rough up the place, 4 torpedoes up its butt later, I failed to see the Ise, probably sunk. I did manage to lose 4 PT boats, but at the cost of a battleship? no contest.

(in reply to derhexer)
Post #: 15
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/18/2010 11:32:12 AM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline 		They really are good for "point defense". It gives an invader one more thing to have to deal with. Before he can take the base he should have to deal with indugenous LBA , subs,PT boats, mines, CD guns, and only then can he go after LCU's. And if the base is in straits,narrows or any other kind of restricted waters , the PT's become quite an effective harrassing machine.

In real life the Japanese were very worried about PT's because of their own torpedo usage ability.

_____________________________


(in reply to Misconduct)
Post #: 16
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/18/2010 2:42:53 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: USS Henrico

Sometimes the PTs get lucky when they engage and fire at 2000 yards, sometimes they get surprised and blown away from 15k yards. There seems to be a good bit of randomness involved. But they are quite useful for annoying your opponent.

In my PBEM game, I recently had a courageous PT boat hit a Japanese BB with a torpedo off Java. As usual, the torpedo failed to explode...

I agree with my opponent. They do make the IJN (and to a lesser extent the USN / RN) keep it 'honest'. Invasion TFs in PT territory must be escorted or swept by SCTFs-preferably those heavy in DDs-prior to landing. This just makes ONE MORE thing that the invader has to keep in mind when working in areas with lots of PTs. Annoying always-occasionally more.

_____________________________


(in reply to USS Henrico)
Post #: 17
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/18/2010 4:21:59 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

I am having trouble creating them at forward bases. I can produce all I want at PH...Any tricks? the manual says simple create a transport TF at a friendly port, load it with supplies, and press activate PTs. It does not appear to work at many of the SOPAC bases.

In some ways I like the WITP system where I had to ship them (as supplies) to a forward base on a transport TF created at a main port.



you still can as long as you have some in the PT Pools , or as i do just for flavour and non magic PT appearances. Create the PT's in a closeish but major port then attach as many DD's as needed (for speed/fuel) and send them to the new base. Refuel the DD's and return.

Used short range and in coastal waters they can be quite useful and very hard for japan to get rid of them with LBA too.

Thanks Rob.
I had not thought of using DDs as the milk cows. What cruise speed are you getting (in hexes) during transit? Any historical examples to support this method of transport (i.e. were they ever loaded on DDs to be moved forward that you are aware of)?



Happy to help wirraway, No historical examples i can think of its just a game thing for me. If you want to be more 'accurate' (and i've done this before) put the Pt's in a TF with 1 or more AK's to pretend they are on board and in transit. I just add DD's for the speed issue and i leave them on mission speed so long as the distance stays in the green (top left screen bit) so the Pt's arrive faster than with AK;s.

One small caveat when using them I only ever have one TF of PT boats (I havnt worked out any maximums to this yet as the issue hasnt emerged ) , this allows a Bombardment TF to actually make it through and hit the target (if it survives) as multiple TF's of 1-2 PT boats cause multiple surface engagements making the opponent use up all thier ammo and most likely ops points resulting in them not only failing to bombard but also leaving them closer to any LBA thats around. 1-2 PT TF's is a very gamey play imo.

As for breaking a PT 'blockade' I'd try the following in a game vs the AI first to see if it works. Send in a SC TF with retire orders (and make sure its faster than the Fast Transport TF btw) to the hex to fight it out with the Pt's , then (same turn) the slower FT TF 'might' get into the hex and unload. Putting the FT one on 'ignore the enemy' (the agresive setting in the waypoints bit) (after playing this game a lot you'd think i would remember the button names better ) might also stop them from backing off one hex and hovering to await the daylight air attacks. Bear in mind this is just off the top of my head and might or might not actually work.

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 18
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/19/2010 11:13:02 AM   
DSwain


Posts: 171
Joined: 9/23/2006
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		I just got very lucky in a PBEM; sent the Hong Kong MTB squadron to Takao on Dec 8/9th, managed to catch an amphibious TF loading up for PI. Lots of transports down! Next turn though my opponent knocked the stuffing out of my USN PBs off PI, which seems much more usual!

_____________________________


(in reply to Rob Brennan UK)
Post #: 19
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 3/20/2010 3:38:29 PM   
topeverest


Posts: 3376
Joined: 10/17/2007
From: Houston, TX - USA
Status: offline 		Always, always, always!!!! put your very best and most aggressive naval commander on those puppies, and keep at least a dozen in reserve ready to be built on a moments notive anywhere on the map.

In coastal waters, PT's are in their element and will get more than their share of enemy ships. They are a real pain in the behind for the Japs if deployed appropriately.

_____________________________

Andy M

(in reply to DSwain)
Post #: 20
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 1/16/2011 5:59:01 PM   
nashvillen


Posts: 3836
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline 		Next JFB question on this subject: What is the best way to kill these "pests" (PT Boats)?

(in reply to topeverest)
Post #: 21
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 1/16/2011 6:35:42 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

Next JFB question on this subject: What is the best way to kill these "pests" (PT Boats)?


I guess it's surface combat TF and only destroyers. Fast E(scorts) might work as well?

I've been trying to use low flying fighters to kill PT-boats, but not any luck so far. Zeros will strafe them, but the 20 mm gun won't penetrate PT-boat "armor"...

(in reply to nashvillen)
Post #: 22
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 1/16/2011 6:58:55 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Sigh... Yes it will...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Puhis)
Post #: 23
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 1/16/2011 7:36:51 PM   
nashvillen


Posts: 3836
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline 		By "strafe" them with Zeros, are you putting them on Naval Attack or Sweep at 100 feet?

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 24
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 1/16/2011 7:44:08 PM   
Puhis


Posts: 1737
Joined: 11/30/2008
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Naval attack, 100 ft (or maybe 1000 ft, can't remember anymore).

(in reply to nashvillen)
Post #: 25
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 1/16/2011 8:16:15 PM   
paulkenny

 

Posts: 178
Joined: 5/7/2003
Status: offline 		In my two ongoing PBEmail games (both in mid January 42-me as Japan), I have seen around 20 PT attacks, one was successful, sinking an AP and an AKL IIRC. seems about right, have sunk around 10 PTs, seems about right.

They are expendible attack items and would HOPE that they werent more successful.

I have seen around 6 to 10 reports in the OP reports that a PT was hit (figure any hit is a sink), got to figure a few more PTs have gone down.

Pain in the butt but can be dealt with as the Japanese player. My biggest fear is when they are based at a location with minefields, running in a DD SCTF to deal with the PTs and run into a minefield, yech.

Always remember to put your TF on highest threat tolerance and give them an agressive commander.

(in reply to spartanwarrior)
Post #: 26
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 1/17/2011 1:33:44 AM   
nashvillen


Posts: 3836
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline 		OK, just had a turn in my current PBEM game. The combination of SCTFs with just DDs in them and Zeros set on Naval attack at an elevation of 100 worked. The DD SCTFs had four plus DDs in them and worked better than the Zeros, but I had two SCTFs of DDs and only one unit of Zeros allocated to this methodology.

(in reply to paulkenny)
Post #: 27
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 1/17/2011 9:58:12 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		They are very effective vs barges. Historically correct.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to nashvillen)
Post #: 28
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 1/18/2011 12:24:23 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

When in 1942 do they start to show up in numbers?



I'm in mid April and have 2 boats in the pool. The boats you start with can be returned to the pool to boost your count and make them available for use other than their starting locations.

I have seen Dutch PTs sink a CVL in the DEI. As some one pointed out best use is against unloading amphibious TFs. You can literally wreak havoc in the Phillipines with the American, Phillipine and Brit boats out of Hong Kong. Just be sure to check the stats of the TF commander and change to the most aggressive ones available. Persistence also counts. I have had the Phillipine boats run from 6 straight encounters only to hit paydirt on the 7th try.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 29
RE: PT boats? What good are they? - 1/18/2011 4:46:51 PM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 614
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Status: offline 		The american ones start showing up in the pool in August.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> PT boats? What good are they? Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.703