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More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 10:35:58 AM

Obsolete

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Looks like UBI isn't the only one who wants to punish its loyal clients anymore.

Command & Con. IV

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RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 1:50:25 PM

Joram

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At this rate, Matrix is going to be about the only company I can ever buy from. These companies are killing the PC game.

(in reply to Obsolete)

Post #: 2

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 1:58:46 PM

Anguille

Posts: 637
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Hyper-cruiser "Phantom"
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It seems like i am lucky to enjoy rather unpopular games...for a long time i thought that i was the one being punished...

Long live Matrix!

(in reply to Joram)

Post #: 3

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 2:38:31 PM

Peter Fisla

Posts: 2503
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline

This type of DRM doesn't apply to all EA games, for example Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age: Awakening, only have CD checks...and they all sold a lot of copies. Impulse driven (besides matrix games) on-line store also pretty much doesn't uses any DRM either...though there are few titles that do, so I skip those. For me no $50 game is worth messing up my computer, or allowing the publisher telling me when and I how can I play the game I already paid for! If people stop buying the games with the crappy DRM, the publishers will have to change...or go out of business.

(in reply to Anguille)

Post #: 4

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 2:42:20 PM

Josh

Posts: 2576
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From: Leeuwarden, Netherlands
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I had a very very bad experience with DRM copyrighted music, it was all legal and it was all paid for... and I couldn't do anything with it...

And while it's been two years ago I'm *still* pissed off by it

And here's the weird thing... because I couldn't upload the legal files to my Mp3 player I had to download *illegal Mp3's*, and they worked without a problem...
So this puzzles me to this day... here I am a paying, law obeying citizen, who gets screwed by the companies with their DRM/Starforce programs... while the illegal copies/illegal downloads work without a hitch... Something's not right about that.
Personally I don't like illegal stuff, you want it, you pay for it, because other people worked for it. But as I don't want DRM/Starforce rubbish anymore on my pc, *or* an internet connection is a must if you want to play it, I don't buy it. Period.

(in reply to Anguille)

Post #: 5

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 2:54:42 PM

Knavery

Posts: 286
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I heard that C&C4 sucks anyway. Let them use it and I'll keep my hard-earned dollars.

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Post #: 6

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 3:37:46 PM

GoodGuy

Posts: 1506
Joined: 5/17/2006
From: Cologne, Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

This type of DRM doesn't apply to all EA games, for example Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age: Awakening, only have CD checks...and they all sold a lot of copies.

I preordered the DD version of Mass Effect 2, so I could unlock some unique ingame items/features that aren't available in the stock version (some armor, additional weapon, etc.). Although it looked like Cerberus Network access (which is used to download free DLC) was reserved to preorders and special editions at first, it seems like all ME2 versions received a Cerberus Network card/code, now.
The DD version of ME2 requires you to go online at least ONCE in order to activate it. The DD versions also "use the retailer's protection system", according to Jack Lamden's (BioWare) statement from January, direct2drive's protection in my case, I guess.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jack Lamden, QA - BioWare

"The Copy protection is different now.
The physical copies of the game use a disk check, there's no online checks and no activation limits.
The Steam version uses the Steam copy protection, and that's it.

The rest of the Digital Distribution builds use a non-securom copy protection method which does an online check, but I don't belive there is an activation limit."

So, I'd say the technology or base for more restrictive DRM is already in the game, at least in the DD versions (ie. online activation and Cerberus Network feature), but just not being used for other purposes than to perform an online activation and to notify about new DLC, yet, so I'm glad that BioWare seems to have a say there, currently at least.

< Message edited by GoodGuy -- 3/19/2010 3:46:10 PM >

_____________________________

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December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne
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(in reply to Peter Fisla)

Post #: 7

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 4:18:05 PM

Peter Fisla

Posts: 2503
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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

This type of DRM doesn't apply to all EA games, for example Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age: Awakening, only have CD checks...and they all sold a lot of copies.

I preordered the DD version of Mass Effect 2, so I could unlock some unique ingame items/features that aren't available in the stock version (some armor, additional weapon, etc.). Although it looked like Cerberus Network access (which is used to download free DLC) was reserved to preorders and special editions at first, it seems like all ME2 versions received a Cerberus Network card/code, now.
The DD version of ME2 requires you to go online at least ONCE in order to activate it. The DD versions also "use the retailer's protection system", according to Jack Lamden's (BioWare) statement from January, direct2drive's protection in my case, I guess.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jack Lamden, QA - BioWare

"The Copy protection is different now.
The physical copies of the game use a disk check, there's no online checks and no activation limits.
The Steam version uses the Steam copy protection, and that's it.

The rest of the Digital Distribution builds use a non-securom copy protection method which does an online check, but I don't belive there is an activation limit."

So, I'd say the technology or base for more restrictive DRM is already in the game, at least in the DD versions (ie. online activation and Cerberus Network feature), but just not being used for other purposes than to perform an online activation and to notify about new DLC, yet, so I'm glad that BioWare seems to have a say there, currently at least.

I guess I should have said that I bought the DVD version which is different from digital download versions, once you login and register your DVD serial you don't have to login to your bioware account and don't need internet connection again to play.

(in reply to GoodGuy)

Post #: 8

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 4:54:58 PM

GoodGuy

Posts: 1506
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From: Cologne, Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

I guess I should have said that I bought the DVD version which is different from digital download versions, once you login and register your DVD serial you don't have to login to your bioware account and don't need internet connection again to play.

Did you activate the Cerberus Network and did you install some DLC? I'm curious.
Because once you've activated Cerberus and once you've installed say the Zaeed mission pack, it requires you to login with your bioware account and auth on their server before you can access the game. Once you're in the game, you can just go offline. It does not require you to stay online to play the game.
But once you exit the game/current mission and go back to the main menu, you may need to go online again, I guess.

That's still way less restrictive and more viable for people with unstable Wi-fi connections or laptops. I think the Cerb Network thing is acceptable and also a good idea regarding the need for authentification for free download content or future additional paid content, as pirates will only be able to play the stock version.

I enjoyed both ME1 and ME2, but I'll pass in case ME3 will contain a more restrictive DRM.

_____________________________

"Aw Nuts"
General Anthony McAuliffe
December 22nd, 1944
Bastogne
---
"I've always felt that the AA (Alied Assault engine) had the potential to be [....] big."
Tim Stone
8th of August, 2006

(in reply to Peter Fisla)

Post #: 9

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 6:36:48 PM

SuluSea

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anguille

It seems like i am lucky to enjoy rather unpopular games...for a long time i thought that i was the one being punished...

Long live Matrix!

Here, Here!!!!!

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Post #: 10

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 7:07:20 PM

mbar

Posts: 492
Joined: 3/17/2010
Status: offline

I'm with you on the DRM thing. I like being able to "just play the game." I even find CD checks annoying. I tend to gravitate to "unpopular" games and companies too. Fortunately most of them either don't have DRM right out of the box or patch it out after the game has been successful for a year.

That said, it ticks me off to see torrent sites with WitP:AE for download. I just want to google information about the game and instead I find lots of torrents and warez downloads.

Don't do that to Matrix! I don't want them going down the DRM route.

(in reply to SuluSea)

Post #: 11

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 7:35:02 PM

Peter Fisla

Posts: 2503
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoodGuy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

I guess I should have said that I bought the DVD version which is different from digital download versions, once you login and register your DVD serial you don't have to login to your bioware account and don't need internet connection again to play.

Did you activate the Cerberus Network and did you install some DLC? I'm curious.
Because once you've activated Cerberus and once you've installed say the Zaeed mission pack, it requires you to login with your bioware account and auth on their server before you can access the game. Once you're in the game, you can just go offline. It does not require you to stay online to play the game.
But once you exit the game/current mission and go back to the main menu, you may need to go online again, I guess.

That's still way less restrictive and more viable for people with unstable Wi-fi connections or laptops. I think the Cerb Network thing is acceptable and also a good idea regarding the need for authentification for free download content or future additional paid content, as pirates will only be able to play the stock version.

I enjoyed both ME1 and ME2, but I'll pass in case ME3 will contain a more restrictive DRM.

I did create Cerberus Network account and got their DLC but play ME2 without the need being connected at all. I only have registered the game, and got all the DLC and always play off-line just fine... I think this is the difference between DVD and DD version of the games. This was one of the reasons why I went with DVD version, the other is...well...I still need to back up the DD files...so I might as well use their DVD disk instead of doing myself on my DVD disk.

(in reply to GoodGuy)

Post #: 12

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 10:10:59 PM

Arctic Blast

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

Looks like UBI isn't the only one who wants to punish its loyal clients anymore.

Command & Con. IV

It would be more obnoxious if they were taking the whole catalog down that road, but Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age have pretty light protection, and Battlefield Bad Company 2's DRM is actually pretty decent as well.

It sounds like they went half way towards building C&C 4 in to a persistent campaign universe. Frankly, if they're going to require a constant connection, they should have gone all the way with it. Make a persistent campaign map that's affected by every scenario outcome, where players can jump in to any open slot they want to. Sort of an MMORTS.

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RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 10:20:25 PM

sullafelix

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I'm a bit confused. I do realize that many of these companies are not US ones but didn't the supreme court just rule that there is no such thing as " renting" software? I was under the impression that the ruling had to do with different DRMs and that they came down on the side that you actually own the siftware that you buy, so a company can't make you jump through hoops to play " your" game?

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Post #: 14

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 10:26:28 PM

DampSquib

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Joined: 3/8/2010
From: UK
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Yep,your spot on about ME2 & Dragon Age..didn't know about Battlefield BC2.
I thought i would buy Arma2 instead..I held of buying that,but after a trip to RYG & a
Good lurk i found out it's patched out.Maybe they will patch this out if sales drop.....
or a long wait until it's on GOG.

You are THE ARCTIC BLAST from RYG...

< Message edited by DampSquib -- 3/21/2010 4:10:02 AM >

(in reply to Arctic Blast)

Post #: 15

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 10:30:53 PM

Arctic Blast

Posts: 1168
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DampSquib

Yep,your spot on about ME2 & Dragon Age..didn't know about Battlefield BC2.
I thought i would buy Arma2 instead..I held of buying that,but after a trip to RYG & a
Good lurk i found out it's patched out.Maybe they will patch this out if sales drop.....
or a long wait until it's on GOG.

You are THE ARTIC BLAST from RYG...

Indeed I am.

Apparently I'm Internet famous? Woohoo!

Just for clarity's sake, the BC2 DRM works like this :

-If you have a physical copy, you choose whether it works as a SecuROM disc check or online activation.
-If you pick the online option (or buy it digitally) it activates, then doesn't do anything online for the next 20 years (seriously).
-You can have 10 active installs at once (11 if you set a system to use a disc check, really) and when you uninstall the game, it automatically does all of that activation revocation stuff without you having to use another tool to cover that.
-Like with previous Battlefield games, playing MP requires signing in to BF Online.

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Post #: 16

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/19/2010 10:51:52 PM

DampSquib

Posts: 425
Joined: 3/8/2010
From: UK
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Apparently I'm Internet famous? Woohoo! Yep...

It's just a great site for info be it DRM...or tech bits.
Got rid of SuckRom

with the tool from there then like a tit reinstalled it with a completely different game..so now i am UNCLEAN again..oh well.

http://reclaimyourgame.com/

< Message edited by DampSquib -- 3/19/2010 11:12:11 PM >

(in reply to Arctic Blast)

Post #: 17

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/20/2010 12:12:09 AM

freeboy

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

yep, have to a gree, I have 16 gigs on my apple iphone, muy stuff, locked there cause it did not get bough tfrom apple, I must hack my phone, in the next month as I go to sprint..
I was supe rpissed at apple for months, frustratingto be a "good guy" and get caught in a net that does not catch the theives!

(in reply to DampSquib)

Post #: 18

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/20/2010 10:42:48 AM

DampSquib

Posts: 425
Joined: 3/8/2010
From: UK
Status: offline

Deleted.

< Message edited by DampSquib -- 3/22/2010 2:35:25 AM >

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Post #: 19

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/20/2010 2:44:30 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
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From: Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joram

At this rate, Matrix is going to be about the only company I can ever buy from. These companies are killing the PC game.

You people have been whining about this for years, and it hasn't happened yet. Grow up and get over yourselves.

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RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/20/2010 2:47:09 PM

Titanwarrior89

Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline

Whine all you want guys....... Whine more..... I agree with you all. DRM's Suck!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joram

At this rate, Matrix is going to be about the only company I can ever buy from. These companies are killing the PC game.

You people have been whining about this for years, and it hasn't happened yet. Grow up and get over yourselves.

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RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/20/2010 8:04:14 PM

Arctic Blast

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Considering PC gaming revenues are up, I'd say I agree with at least the point of Terminus' last comment. The whole 'the sky is falling, this will doom the hobby!' sometimes brought out by the anti-DRM side of things simply isn't true.

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Post #: 22

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/21/2010 12:49:20 AM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8573
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From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joram

At this rate, Matrix is going to be about the only company I can ever buy from. These companies are killing the PC game.

You people have been whining about this for years, and it hasn't happened yet. Grow up and get over yourselves.

That added a great deal to this conversation, Terminus. Not unlike this one...my own pointless post.

But whilst I'm here...what exactly does "grow up and get over yourselves" actually mean? "Bend over and take another one for the team"? If it weren't for people speaking out, you most definitely wouldn't be enjoying the freedom and ethics you enjoy now......

I don't know where you hang out mostly, I truly don't. You have 30+K posts and I rarely see any of them...and that's because you rarely post in the General Discussion forum...but I do know this...the times I've seen you post in the General Discussion forum you're posts have either been pretty inflamatory or incorrectly accusing some innocent poster (lurker or new poster) of being a spambot. Might I be so bold as to suggest you change your posting habits.

Joram is right...to an extent. Whilst it might not be the only thing killing PC gaming, it is certainly a factor...a BIG factor. DRM is counter productive in terms of selling games to PC users.

In the words of an infamous poster - "I think you need to get over yourself"

I forgot to add...in case killroyishere or diablo1 is lurking around...yes - I fully agree that in this instance I have trolled this thread. My post, much like Terminus' post has very little to do with the topic...though at the very least I do address the topic!

< Message edited by JudgeDredd -- 3/21/2010 12:53:28 AM >

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Post #: 23

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/21/2010 10:19:05 AM

Greybriar

Posts: 1148
Joined: 2/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sulla05

I'm a bit confused. I do realize that many of these companies are not US ones but didn't the supreme court just rule that there is no such thing as " renting" software? I was under the impression that the ruling had to do with different DRMs and that they came down on the side that you actually own the siftware that you buy, so a company can't make you jump through hoops to play " your" game?

According to this article, it was the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Washington that ruled "software is owned, not licensed" in the United States, if that's what you were referring to. If anyone has information about a Supreme Court ruling on the subject, I would appreciate knowing about it.

As for the topic of this thread, I purchased fewer PC games in 2009 than in any year previous due to the DRM methods implemented by many PC game publishers.

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Post #: 24

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/21/2010 11:44:19 AM

killroyishere

Posts: 639
Joined: 4/23/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joram

At this rate, Matrix is going to be about the only company I can ever buy from. These companies are killing the PC game.

You people have been whining about this for years, and it hasn't happened yet. Grow up and get over yourselves.

That added a great deal to this conversation, Terminus. Not unlike this one...my own pointless post.

But whilst I'm here...what exactly does "grow up and get over yourselves" actually mean? "Bend over and take another one for the team"? If it weren't for people speaking out, you most definitely wouldn't be enjoying the freedom and ethics you enjoy now......

I don't know where you hang out mostly, I truly don't. You have 30+K posts and I rarely see any of them...and that's because you rarely post in the General Discussion forum...but I do know this...the times I've seen you post in the General Discussion forum you're posts have either been pretty inflamatory or incorrectly accusing some innocent poster (lurker or new poster) of being a spambot. Might I be so bold as to suggest you change your posting habits.

Joram is right...to an extent. Whilst it might not be the only thing killing PC gaming, it is certainly a factor...a BIG factor. DRM is counter productive in terms of selling games to PC users.

In the words of an infamous poster - "I think you need to get over yourself"

I forgot to add...in case killroyishere or diablo1 is lurking around...yes - I fully agree that in this instance I have trolled this thread. My post, much like Terminus' post has very little to do with the topic...though at the very least I do address the topic!

Ahhh the troller even admits it. Thank you JD I'd been waiting for an avenue to return. Notice my new sig?

Now as far as DRM the only way we can combat it is to boycott it. Just don't buy those games with major intrusive DRM schemes. Ask yourself if you really have to have that game, is it really worth it? Don't you already have one like it already in your pile of games you buy and hardly ever play or finish? I haven't bought anything from EA in a decade anyway so it really doesn't matter in their case. Long live Freedom! If you forgot what it is go watch Braveheart.

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Post #: 25

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/21/2010 3:12:08 PM

sullafelix

Posts: 1520
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Sorry I was told by word of mouth it was the Supreme court.

But still that is two courts who have upheld that you own software and not just rent it.

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Post #: 26

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/21/2010 3:17:57 PM

JudgeDredd

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From: Scotland
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lol - I love how you have stayed away from these forums because you didn't want to change your sig. You haven't posted a single thing since Erik told you to change your sig. I knew if I gave you a window, you'd be too ****ing stupid not to take the bait.

Thanks for proving me right...you are truly a collosal arsehole

I might (if I can be bothered) ask Erik to check some IPs. I'm sure that might prove interesting.

You are clearly either a child or the same bitter old man we know from before. Either way you took the bait and I congratulate you on not trying to hide your twisted, sad little mind.

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Post #: 27

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/21/2010 4:36:09 PM

Knavery

Posts: 286
Joined: 3/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

lol - I love how you have stayed away from these forums because you didn't want to change your sig. You haven't posted a single thing since Erik told you to change your sig. I knew if I gave you a window, you'd be too ****ing stupid not to take the bait.

Thanks for proving me right...you are truly a collosal arsehole

I might (if I can be bothered) ask Erik to check some IPs. I'm sure that might prove interesting.

You are clearly either a child or the same bitter old man we know from before. Either way you took the bait and I congratulate you on not trying to hide your twisted, sad little mind.

Killroyishere is a jerk. Just ignore him until he gets banned. We all know you're not a troll JudgeDredd. You provide a great deal more to this community than posts. I know this to be true.

As for DRM... I guess when all is said and done, I'm more concerned about losing a game than anything else. I'm fine with certain checks, and am even willing to say that a conneciton requirement doesn't bother me that much. But what would bother me is a limited number of installs. At least with a physical copy, you can prove you've purchased the game. With download only games through places like GG, there is the possibility of losing them or the site just going completely under. What then? Unless you have physical copies burned to disc, you're SOL.

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Post #: 28

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/21/2010 6:04:22 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8573
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From: Scotland
Status: offline

Thx for that wee vote of support Knavery.

He's been green buttoned. He never had anything useful or interesting to say anyway.

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Post #: 29

RE: More bad news for future players (DRM & EA) - 3/21/2010 7:24:06 PM

NefariousKoel

Posts: 2930
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From: Murderous Missouri Scum
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I'm rabidly anti- intrusive/restrictive DRM.

I've definitely boycotted software I would've otherwise bought. This includes Steam. Yes, it's DRM no matter how much you try to sugar-coat it. And this nonsense has only become worse the first few months of this year.

There's only one way to make them stop and that is to not give these turds your business. I hope they all tank and the companies go tits up so some smaller, customer friendly, ones can pick up the business instead.

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Post #: 30