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Transports retire before troops are unloaded

 
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Transports retire before troops are unloaded - 7/15/2002 5:11:40 AM   
Kingfish

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 6/17/2002
Status: offline 		I'm landing the 1st Marines at Lunga and Tulagi. The TF assigned to Tulagi is unloading without a problem, but the one assigned to Lunga stopped about 2/3 of the way thru then retired.

I get a message just before they raise anchor stating the TF can only unload at either a friendly base, or a DH. I check the TF's screen and I see it's DH has changed from Lunga to Lungaville on it's own. By the time I could change the order the TF had cleared San Cristobal, and I now have to turn them around and spend another 1-2 days within range of Rabaul just to accomplish something that should have been done already.

There was no indication of IJN CVs in the area, both transport TFs had Cap from Saratoga and Enterprise, and like I said earlier the unloading was well underway for both objectives. One thing I did recieve was damage to Astoria and Chicago from Bettys, but I promptly detached them and sent them back to Lungaville.

Any reason why this happened?
Post #: 1
- 7/15/2002 9:53:40 AM   
eMonticello


Posts: 525
Joined: 3/15/2002
Status: offline 		You probably have it set with an option to retire. Same thing happened to me at Gili Gili when I was trying to unload the 2nd Div... After a minor series of air attacks by LBA from Oz and PM, the transport task force up anchored and left. The 5,000 troops were stranded on the beach and were subsequently wiped out by the Aussies the next day (no supplies were landed).

You want to set the option "patrol/no retirement" when landing troops/supplies in Indian country.

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(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 2
- 7/15/2002 9:50:24 PM   
Gabby

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 4/26/2002
Status: offline 		I got the Must unload at frendly base or DH message last night.

I was trying to unload reinforcemts at Lunga while the Japs controlled the base. I sent the TF in twice with the same message. I noticed that one of the ships was badly damaged, so I split it off and sent it to Irau.

After I split off the badly damaged ship, the rest of the TF unloaded fine.

My thought is that badly damaged ships can only unload at frendly bases / ports.

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 3
- 7/15/2002 11:43:02 PM   
Wilhammer

 

Posts: 449
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: Out in the Sticks of Rockingham County, North Caro
Status: offline 		....and the game should have a routine to segregate those ships into their own TF, just like it does when comparing speed ratings to form new TFs of damged ships to not hinder the progress of the ones still up to speed.

I solve this by splitting them up manually, as you did, and to always give my Transport TFs Do Not Retire orders.

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 4
queror - 7/15/2002 11:46:49 PM   
zed

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 5/20/2002
Status: offline 		Is it now true that no matter what the setting is, whether retire or patrol/no retire. transport TFs will always flee enemy carriers?

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Post #: 5
Re: queror - 7/15/2002 11:53:25 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by zed
[B]Is it now true that no matter what the setting is, whether retire or patrol/no retire. TFs will always flee enemy carriers? [/B][/QUOTE]

Not from my experience. Just had a TF unloading within range of spotted enemy CV's and they're still unloading after the CV's retired.

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 6
- 7/16/2002 12:17:39 AM   
Wilhammer

 

Posts: 449
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: Out in the Sticks of Rockingham County, North Caro
Status: offline 		zed.

It is my experience that they will NOT leave a current unloading operation, i.e., if a transport TF is already at its destination, it will not react from it.

However, this same force, with a Do Not retire order, will react to enemy in the case of the CV34 rule, resulting it it not reaching the destination until the threat goes away.

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 7
- 7/16/2002 2:53:21 AM   
Kingfish

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 6/17/2002
Status: offline 		In my case there were no enemy CVs anywhere near the transports. In fact, they didn't show up until the transports had finally finished loading, and were well on the way back to Lungaville.

Also, contrary to what I said in my original post, the landing operations at Tulagi did not go according to plan. On a hunch I checked the TF as it was leaving, and found about 750 points worth of supplies still on board. Again, no enemy interference apart from weak, unescorted air raids.

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 8
- 7/16/2002 3:13:11 AM   
Mark W Carver

 

Posts: 83
Joined: 4/26/2002
From: South-central PA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kingfish
In my case there were no enemy CVs anywhere near the transports. In fact, they didn't show up until the transports had finally finished loading, and were well on the way back to Lungaville.

Also, contrary to what I said in my original post, the landing operations at Tulagi did not go according to plan. On a hunch I checked the TF as it was leaving, and found about 750 points worth of supplies still on board. Again, no enemy interference apart from weak, unescorted air raids. [/QUOTE]

If your Transport TF was set to 'Retirement Allowed', they WILL abort loading and unloading...

(1) if Attacked
(2) Avoid Enemy Carriers
(3) Avoid [B]Potential[/B] Surface Combat

An enemy Surface Combat TF within striking distance of your Tranport TF will abort the TF.

To make sure your Transport TF will load or unlaod, set it to 'Patrol/Do Not Retire'. In doing so, they will load or unload there cargo even if attacked.

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 9
- 7/16/2002 3:22:11 AM   
Wilhammer

 

Posts: 449
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: Out in the Sticks of Rockingham County, North Caro
Status: offline 		You know, does this "react to thingy" consider both unspotted and spotted enemy TFs?

It would be a bit strange to react to an unspotted force.

It is my understanding spotting is irrelevant in this case.

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 10
- 7/16/2002 3:53:44 AM   
Kingfish

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 6/17/2002
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]If your Transport TF was set to 'Retirement Allowed', they WILL abort loading and unloading...

(1) if Attacked
(2) Avoid Enemy Carriers
(3) Avoid Potential Surface Combat

[/QUOTE]

I understand, and agree totally that they should, but...

1) Only air raids
2 & 3) None were detected during the entire unloading process

[QUOTE]To make sure your Transport TF will load or unlaod, set it to 'Patrol/Do Not Retire'. In doing so, they will load or unload there cargo even if attacked.[/QUOTE]

Sure I can do that, but I'd rather have the retire function work as intended. I want them to unload (unless #2 & 3 come into play), then retire the moment their cargo is completely unloaded. I don't want them waiting around for me to give them orders to retire (and possibly lose a few ships because of that delay).

Air raids on ships unloading at Lunga and Tulagi were a common occurance during the Guadacanal campaign, but after a few hours of disruption the TFs would resume unloading. Why not here?

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 11
Response... - 7/16/2002 4:37:38 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Kingfish,

Not sure why this happened to you, although others have posted reasonable possibilities. However, I think this is a very rare combination of circumstances that doesn't relate to the normal rules. I've seen it once myself a long time ago during testing (that strange cannot unload message) but have been unable to repeat it. If anyone can get a repeatable save, we'll look into seeing what the explanation is. It could be that the message is simply not informative.

Regards,

- Erik

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(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 12
- 7/16/2002 6:32:07 AM   
Kingfish

 

Posts: 38
Joined: 6/17/2002
Status: offline 		Erik,

Something tells me the problem lies with heavily damaged ships within the TF. According to rule # 9.21 of the manual, once a TF starts to unload, no ships will be split off due to damage until the TF has completed unloading all it's cargo. But what happens when a ship is so heavily damaged that the auto retire function kicks in? Because the AI wants to keep the TF together would the auto retire function transfer to the other ships as well, even if you were to split the damaged ship from the TF in the next orders phase?

(in reply to Kingfish)
Post #: 13
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