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comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 7:45:02 AM   
linger

 

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Hi,

Still debating internally with which one to buy. I held off on Armada because I knew this was coming out also. If anyone has the time to list the pros of each (or what each does better), I'd appreciate it. Don't know Matrix's policy on comparing to their own games, so apologies if not allowed. Thanks.
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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 8:03:19 AM   
Deto

 

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As far as I know, or heard for that matter, Armada is starcontrollish in size/depth (ignoring the story aspect of SC2) while Distant Worlds requires you to make pact with the devil and is larger THAN master of orion :)

edit: Larger than master of orion in positive way. You can play it in many different ways and with different macro/micro management depth to suit you :)

< Message edited by Deto -- 3/29/2010 8:04:08 AM >

(in reply to linger)
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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 8:06:40 AM   
lordxorn


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As a owner of both, I definitely recommend Distant Worlds.

Armada is just another clone of the GalCiv, Space Empires, etc. It doesn't really bring anything new, and the real time tactical combat is horrible. I got bored with it really quick. It has taken them a really long time to come out with just a couple patches that still haven't really helped in my opinion. Maybe the next version will be better?

DW on the other hand is a new take on the 4x genre, and it has alot of elements everyone loves about it. On top of that they have already released a couple patches, one fixing a very serious one like the economy fix. Armada devs took a long time to fix the corruption issues with their first patch.

Armada represents everything that is wrong with the 4x genre, like taking 80% of the standard setting MOO series, and dropping the other 20%. Just like Lost Empires, SOTS, SINS, GalCiv, Space Empires.


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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 8:09:44 AM   
Tormodino

 

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Do not buy Armada. it is simply not very good.
It is a derivate turn-based 4x game that does not excel at anything. I am sad to say that, since I bought it and had high hopes for it.

This game, on the other hand, is extremely ambitious and works very well.

DW is real-time, but paced very nicely so you never have to feel rushed. Armada is turn-based.
Other than both having space settings, they are vastly different beasts. DW is absolutely huge, with hundreds of planets, with the AI being able to do a lot of the micromanaging for the player, right down to playing the entire game for you.
Armada is a lso fairly big in scale, but it is a run-of-the-mill colonize/build improvements/build ships/kill opponent kind of game. If you've played space strategy games before, you've played a better version of Armada. There are some good things in it, with some interesting takes on victory conditions, but really it stands in the deep deep shadow of DW both when it comes to both quality of execution an content.

DW is just really really big :)
Tons of room for improvement here too, though.

(in reply to linger)
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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 8:20:36 AM   
linger

 

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hi, thanks for the info! i've been gather as much of a feel of the games as i can with being mainly a lurker on here, but thought i might be clearer if i just asked my question specifically. glad to see a pretty fast turnaround so far on DW bug fixes.

i was worried the real time part might make DW into a clickfest but that seems to not be the case with other posts on that topic so far.

it seemed problem with the tactical part of Armada was that it turned out to be an unorganized mass with the two sides sending the troops at each other and then just letting it play out. is the tactical combat in DW better?

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 8:22:10 AM   
linger

 

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I have played Galciv2. So Armada is more in the vein of that type of gameplay? I thought Galciv2 was pretty good, so if DW is more of a different experience, that would really make me lean more towards DW.

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 8:45:11 AM   
lordxorn


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You are exactly right about the tactical combat in Armada, especially when it came down to whoever had the most missile cruisers, and the horrible ai. I hated the camera controls as well, where you can tilt the camera but it would snap back.

I also hated the uninspired ships, and everyone had basically the same ones.

As far as GalCiv2 and DW being similar, I would say they are in the same genre only.

GalCiv2 is from the same mold as Armada, except it didn't have tactical combat. That has really limited GalCiv.
Just like armada your goal is to capture as many planets, and build as many starbases as possible. Then you build structures on the planets, and researched techs. It also had a cool ship designer, but that got old and tedious real fast.

DW has shaken things up with a civilian ran economy, that you have no direct control over. The civilians will go about their lives trying to improve it themselves, and the AI does a good job of this. Your job then is to protect, and expand your empire. You can also help the civilians by building bases that give some bonuses, and scouting for resources that can help with development. This leaves the fun part of running an empire up to you with things, planning war, forming fleets, designing beastly ships, and running spy missions.

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 10:36:38 AM   
Gertjan

 

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I dont like to have to detailed ship combat and design. So that's why I didnt like Armada so much and Galciv2 much better. DW is great as the AI comes up with sensible ship designs, although they should focus a bit more on armor and range weapons. In addition, ship combat is not really micromanageable. You can do it but I dont think I could do a better job than the AI. Give it a try!

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 12:36:57 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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It's a bit funny to call Armada "derivative" when it's actually a sequel to the original Armada 2525 which came _before_ all the games that Armada 2526 is supposedly derivative of. It's a fine game but definitely different from Distant Worlds. I think a typical 4x gamer would enjoy both.

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 12:56:46 PM   
HsojVvad

 

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Armada 2525 came out before MOO? The reason I am asking, is I was looking for 4X games after Moo came out and never herd of Armada 2525. Even when I typed in 4X space games about 10 years ago.

Anyway, to the OP from me doing my research, I believe DW is the better way to go.

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 2:00:29 PM   
Quitch


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Armada 2526 is very much your typical 4X, a mix of the strategic layer of Galactic Civilisations 2 and the tactical combat of Sword of the Stars (except not as good). It feels like a lite 4X which makes for faster games than either of those two.

I haven't got around to playing Distant Worlds, but I don't think there's a comparable 4X from what I've read. Perhaps a mix of Sins of a Solar Empire (real-time), Space Empires (everything can be automatated) with new ideas mixed in and dialed to 11.

NOTE: I am not saying Sins is a 4X :)

< Message edited by Quitch -- 3/29/2010 2:01:30 PM >

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 2:08:38 PM   
JohnM

 

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Armada 2525 was released in 1991 and MoO in 1993.

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 2:27:14 PM   
HsojVvad

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnM

Armada 2525 was released in 1991 and MoO in 1993.

Thank you. I didn't know this. And here I thought Moo was one the first 4X space game. Guess there is alot of games that are out there that I don't know of.

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 2:33:05 PM   
Joram

 

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Armada 2526 is a good game.  DW is also a good game.  To recommend one over the other is hard in my opinion though I guess I too would lean towards DW though there are definitely aspects of it that I don't care for as well.

Armada obviously turn-based compared to DW's real-time.  Though DW is easily pausible and you can slow it down to a crawl as well if you won't want to pause completely. 

Armada gives you more control over research.  In DW, you essentially direct research by building bases that give you research points in one of four areas.  But the specific technologies can't be controlled other than the crash research option which puts all other technologies on hold.  It's very hands-off.  In Armada, you start with with general research buildings but can then specialize them if you wish.  I particularly like the skunkworks option in Armada.  At this point, I don't think I particularly care for the DW approach but it's not a deal-breaker for me.  I am giving myself more time to get used to it.

Lordxorn is correct though on the ships in Armada.  Everyone essentially researches the same tech and gets the same ships.  This is about the only thing in Armada I actually don't care for but it's a biggie for me.  I don't think it's fair to say though it's simply a matter of who has the most missile ships.  I don't personally find that at all but each to their own.  And Armada has carriers for those that care.  In DW, while you can design your own ship, I have two issues with it.  First, you apparently can only design one of each kind of ship.  One escort, one destroyer, one defensive starbase, so on and so forth.  I would prefer to be able to do multiple types.  Second, if you don't automate ship design, then I think you are forced to design small freighters, medium freighters, large freighters, small passengers ships, medium passenger ships, etc... all these other civ ships that you probably don't really care about.  I am unsure of the overall implications though of never upgrading them.  If it actually puts your empire at a disadvantage, then I can see this part getting a bit tedious.

Armada's races truely play differently than the ones in DW in my admittedly limited experience here (who has had time to play them all?!  Not me!).   In Armada races have different strengths and weaknesses just like they do in DW however in Armada, how they collect victory points is very race specific.  This makes the different races truely play differently in order to win.  I'm not sure if everyone really appreciates this fact.  I'm not finding this true yet in DW.  There's three ways to win of course but it all seems to be based on forced expansion.  How much you have to expand may depend on your race such that natural merchants may not need to expand as much to get the GDP goal but all races would need to own the same number of planets to own x% of the galaxy.  Some races just are better at it.  But in the hands of a human, not sure how much differentiation here there really is.

Armada gives more flavor on planet building while in DW that is completely abstract.  I don't think either method is good or bad, just different so it's up to your personal preference.  If you don't want to have to build a luxury center on a planet to make it happy, then you may not like Armada but if you like that level of planet detail, then you may not like DW.

Combat is completely different of course.  DW plays more like your typical RTS game in this respect.  It's not immediately obvious to me the effect of things like thrusters and combat computers but probably because in the games I've played, all races have been close enough for me not to notice the differences.  In Armada, it's more of a fire and forget combat (think Legion or other Slitherine games) but you do have a bit more control if you choose to.  It's no Sword of the Stars though, that's for sure.  Both games kind of leave me a bit flat here though at this point I probably like Armada a bit better. Perhaps if I got into a longer game and really had all the bells and whistles in DW I may think different though.

Where DW really shines though and from what I gather is one of the design points of DW is to really reflect a 'living, breathing' galaxy.  No turn-based game will probably accomplish this as well as a RTS game though some can come close (GalCiv2 and the Civ games come to mind).  Armada doesn't really give you this feel in that regard while in DW it does.  In fact, it can almost be a bit overwhelming in DW but once you learn what you can and can't control, you can really appreciate the system.  While you don't control the civilian aspect of it, there are still nice little touches you can add to it by building a resort around a moon with ice-rings or a neutron star or a research center around a neutron star or black hole.  There are ruins to find and explore, space monsters to hunt or avoid (some people find it corny but I don't), pirates to deal with or destroy.  Sometimes I just like to sit back and watch where all my civilian ships are going off to to get a sense of what I need to help out with with mining or resupply points.   Armada just doesn't quite give you as much a sense of a living universe and in this respect is the only place in my mind where DW clearly is better than Armada.

Now I think it's unfair to say the DW developers are more responsive than the Armada one(s).  Armada didn't have near the issues DW has (and still has) at launch.  The whole corruption thing wasn't even an issue, it was just something people didn't get how to manage it very well.  It was never an issue for me but nevertheless, the developer listened to people's complaints and changed the system.  DW had at least two severe bugs at launch (two races not playable, economy not working correctly, not to mention crashing issues) so they HAD to fix things quickly as initial impressions can quickly sink a game.  Yes, you can and should applaud them for being very swift even especially over a weekend, but you should also applaud Armada for releasing a largely bug-free game.

< Message edited by Joram -- 3/29/2010 4:13:41 PM >

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 2:44:34 PM   
Gertjan

 

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quote:

First, you apparently can only design one of each kind of ship. One escort, one destroyer, one defensive starbase, so on and so forth. I would prefer to be able to do multiple types. Second, if you don't automate ship design, then I think you are forced to design small freighters, medium freighters, large freighters, small passengers ships, medium passenger ships, etc... all these other civ ships that you probably don't really care about. I am unsure of the overall implications though of never upgrading them.

Is this the case? It would be useful to know this.

@Joram, how important is it Armada that you control the ship combat yourself? Does the AI also do a good job of fighting?

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 3:17:03 PM   
Tormodino

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

It's a bit funny to call Armada "derivative" when it's actually a sequel to the original Armada 2525 which came _before_ all the games that Armada 2526 is supposedly derivative of. It's a fine game but definitely different from Distant Worlds. I think a typical 4x gamer would enjoy both.


I didn't know that. Thanks for info.
Still proof that old isn't always good. It can also be outdated.
I don't need innovation at any price, but sometimes there is just too little there to be able to praise a game.

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 4:38:36 PM   
EisenHammer


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IMHO, DW is way above Armada in just about everything. Also, I've been playing DW almost nonstop since I got the game. I love it... It's great!!!

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 4:50:54 PM   
malkuth74

 

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Don't buy this game.... Unless you want to spend your nights up all night playing a game that is too dam addicting. Going to bed a 4 AM when you finally realize that its too late to be playing this game..

Its too addicting, and will cause problems. :)

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 5:24:33 PM   
Sarissofoi


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Armada 2526 is crap. Simply I enjoy old Armada 2525 ten thousend times more. Old Armada was simply game but have some magic in it . The new armada is crappy game. Forget about it.
On the other hand GalCiv. It is good game but i dont like it. Space combat is crappy and ships design is too simple, aslo customisation is a waste of time. Game have some good poionts like good AI and politics but I dont like this game. For me it will be always bad copy of MoO.

DW is good game. But Difrent. Some very annoying bugs was fixed and I can really anyoy this game. This isnt that good like MoO I but if they polish it more and add some more things that this game can be equal to Master of Orion II. I hope for improvemnts.
BTW DW is quite surprise. I dont expect this game and I enjoy it.

Actually from new space strategy I can only see Distant Worlds and Sword of the Stars as good games.


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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 5:35:35 PM   
Sarissofoi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gertjan

quote:

First, you apparently can only design one of each kind of ship. One escort, one destroyer, one defensive starbase, so on and so forth. I would prefer to be able to do multiple types. Second, if you don't automate ship design, then I think you are forced to design small freighters, medium freighters, large freighters, small passengers ships, medium passenger ships, etc... all these other civ ships that you probably don't really care about. I am unsure of the overall implications though of never upgrading them.

Is this the case? It would be useful to know this.

@Joram, how important is it Armada that you control the ship combat yourself? Does the AI also do a good job of fighting?


Nah you can design more ships one type. Unfortuantly sorting isnt very good now and you can see only lates designs or all designs. There is need for something like 'see all not obsolete designs'.
Game have some minor bugs but this will be fixed soon(i hope).

I add screenshot. As you can see I can builit more than one design from one class.


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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 5:44:12 PM   
ASHBERY76


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Armada is a solid 4X game that adds little innovation,but I still think it is much better than GC2.

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 5:46:37 PM   
Joram

 

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Sarrisofoi, that's a good tip though can you see that as well in the ship designer?  If no one else answers, I'll check tonight if I can to see how to expose the other designs.  By default it just replaces the last design with the newest but I suppose by keeping 'obsolete' designs, you can get multiple ones.  A workaround but it's something I guess.

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 6:01:41 PM   
Krafty

 

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Stars! is the first space 4x game? Back in the early 80s iirc?





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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 6:03:22 PM   
ASHBERY76


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

Stars! is the first space 4x game? Back in the early 80s iirc?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reach_for_the_Stars_(computer_game)

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 6:28:09 PM   
Sarissofoi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joram

Sarrisofoi, that's a good tip though can you see that as well in the ship designer?  If no one else answers, I'll check tonight if I can to see how to expose the other designs.  By default it just replaces the last design with the newest but I suppose by keeping 'obsolete' designs, you can get multiple ones.  A workaround but it's something I guess.


No problem.
See this is your standard design panel with 'Only latest ships'

As you see only one frigate.

Then you uncheck this white quadrat on top and viola! You can see all your designs.

My old obsolete 'Obronca' and one of pirate ship design. I deleted my basic design ships.

This is non obsolete ship. You can produce it.


And this ship you can not produce beoze it is obsolete.


Only things is that you can only refit to latest ship design. Which is kinda bad.

< Message edited by Sarissofoi -- 3/29/2010 6:29:29 PM >


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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 7:13:02 PM   
micheljq


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tormodino

DW is just really really big :)
Tons of room for improvement here too, though.



Like multiplayer and PBEM for playing with my friends just like in the good old days of Stars! In a distant future expansion or version 2 perhaps? We can dream.

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 7:15:25 PM   
ASHBERY76


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quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tormodino

DW is just really really big :)
Tons of room for improvement here too, though.



Like multiplayer and PBEM for playing with my friends just like in the good old days of Stars! In a distant future expansion or version 2 perhaps? We can dream.


Good luck with that.The game is real time so how the hell are you going to play by email,heh.

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 7:15:46 PM   
micheljq


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DELETED

< Message edited by micheljq -- 3/29/2010 7:17:29 PM >


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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 7:43:14 PM   
uncc


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kraftwerk

Stars! is the first space 4x game? Back in the early 80s iirc?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reach_for_the_Stars_(computer_game)


...I was gonna say Spaceward Ho!, but then I would've been wrong...

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RE: comparison with Armada - 3/29/2010 8:16:20 PM   
Flaviusx


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I see myself playing this game months from now. Same cannot be said for Armada.


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