RE: Understanding the Economic Model

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RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/1/2010 3:57:27 PM

boogaboo

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline

Sloops - I find it odd that bases were the issue.
Theya re listed as part of teh fleet/base maintenance which is in turn part of the annual report.
I had positive cash flow, yet negative cash balance and going more negative until I experimented wit tax rates and agreements etc (See post above)

I may try to delete my bases one at a time to see the impact.

A much better report of the economy drivers and impacts is needed considering how much is relying on it.

(in reply to Athalian)

Post #: 31

RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/1/2010 4:41:14 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ductape
how much do agents cost to upkeep?I cant seem to find this anywhere.

You can see your agent upkeep in your empire summary.

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(in reply to ductape)

Post #: 32

RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/1/2010 4:45:05 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Boogaboo and Autarkis,

Was this with 1.0.2 for both of you?

The cash flow figure you see in the top right is an annual estimate, whereas as some have noted the pirate alliances are a monthly fee that is not currently listed in the Empire Summary (we plan to add that). There are also unpredictable cost and revenue sources, but Free Trade and such is actually shown in the Empire Summary as well and reflected in your Private Sector's revenues too. For Free Trade in the diplomacy screen you can also see the amount and percentage (which should rise over time if you maintain the agreement)

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 33

RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/1/2010 5:12:13 PM

boogaboo

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline

Hi Erik,

Yep 1.02 for me.
I did not see Free Trade in the summary. I will reload that save and look again.
I am still finding the behaviour odd though.

There is no real reason I should have neg. cash with a positive annual cash flow if I have no pirate agreements?

Kevin

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 34

RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/1/2010 5:20:25 PM

boogaboo

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline

Hi Erik,

Ok I reloaded my game from the point when I started the discussion:

Here is my summary income statement

Cash -38k

Income
Tax 68k
Foeign Trade 1k (free trade?)
Tribute 0k
Port Income 3k
Resort Income 15k

Expenses
Ships/bases 47k
Fuel 0
Troops 13k
Agents 1k
Subjegation 0k

Net: +25k

Why would I see cash continue to slide negative with this set-up?

Kevin

(in reply to autarkis1967)

Post #: 35

RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/1/2010 6:05:27 PM

forsaken1111

Posts: 281
Joined: 3/30/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: boogaboo

Hi Erik,

Ok I reloaded my game from the point when I started the discussion:

Here is my summary income statement

Cash -38k

Income
Tax 68k
Foeign Trade 1k (free trade?)
Tribute 0k
Port Income 3k
Resort Income 15k

Expenses
Ships/bases 47k
Fuel 0
Troops 13k
Agents 1k
Subjegation 0k

Net: +25k

Why would I see cash continue to slide negative with this set-up?

Kevin

Well are you building anything? It says you are making 25k a year but if you build 50k worth of ships and bases that will put you negative.

(in reply to boogaboo)

Post #: 36

RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/1/2010 6:17:27 PM

Resan

Posts: 98
Joined: 4/1/2010
Status: offline

I've also been having some economy problems. After looking at the numbers it turned out I had like 100k in upkeep, and any new mining station I could build would add another 6 - 10k.

Restarted a game and rechecked the upkeep figures. Now upkeep is only about 1k pr mining station... so a resource prize problem right?

What resources do I need to mine more of to lower that prize?

< Message edited by Resan -- 4/1/2010 9:35:59 PM >

(in reply to forsaken1111)

Post #: 37

RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/1/2010 6:28:27 PM

Jim D Burns

Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Okim
I`ve noticed that too. While my colonies were not taxed at all my homeworld was assigned a tax of 50%! I wonder why my people did not rebel against such tax!

Unfortunately 50% tax isn�t an uncommon occurrence in the real world, so why should it be in a game. Here in the US we pay about 30% federal tax, 10% state tax and then another 5%-7% sales tax, so that�s almost 50% right there.

But then when you add in all the little goodies congress and states have added to special items like fuel, energy, booze, cigarettes, licensing fees for vehicles, etc. etc. etc., we all pay well over half our incomes to the government. And the current government here is going to crank it up even more here real soon to pay for their orgy of recent spending.

So 50% in game should make your people mad, but I don�t think it should necessarily cause rebellions unless there are a lot of other mitigating circumstances.

Jim

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(in reply to Okim)

Post #: 38

RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/1/2010 7:26:11 PM

jnpoint

Posts: 549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: Holstebro, Denmark
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: boogaboo

Solution:
Way more detailed MONTHLY financial report page.

Kevin

I had the same problems, now they are solved, but I'm not sure how I managed it - so I like your idea.

(in reply to boogaboo)

Post #: 39

RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/2/2010 12:44:12 AM

autarkis1967

Posts: 45
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline

Erik if you look at my second post I am at 1.02 as well.

(in reply to jnpoint)

Post #: 40

RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/2/2010 1:52:07 AM

Sarissofoi

Posts: 329
Joined: 2/1/2010
Status: offline

In Poland we have total tax about 70-80%. Yeah this sucks. A lot. No wonder that many educated peoples go to London to make any dirty job they get.
But real world asaide.

Something like that happen to me too. I have cash flow at +25k or something. And get red numbers. Remember that you pay for any your production on start. You cant buy ships when you dont have money.
I suspect deal with pirates. I pay one pirate faction for alliance(something about 2-3K for month) . I suspeced some bug here. Wheen I broke deal my finances get to normal almost instant.

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(in reply to autarkis1967)

Post #: 41

RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/2/2010 1:57:02 AM

boogaboo

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline

Hi Erik,

I spent a lot of today playing with the economy to gain an uderstanding of the issues (if any).
I managed to get my econ booming again by elimination of alliance w/ pirates (Very exepnsive and not caluclated in the annual budget report).
I also stopped some queued builds and this seems to help for some reason.

All in all I have a suggestion for the resolution of the econ issue.

It is a matter of a lack of transparencu around what contribues to and from the econ model.
A couple ideas that will help that should be pretty easy are as follows:

- Make a report that is inclusive of all of the cash flow activities on as close to real time basic as you can (I.e. ship builds and so on). Maybe tie this in with a nice resouce requirement/cost info (think others wanted that).

- Add the pirate costs and any other costs that are "hidden" to the reports

- Pick a report standard (I.e. Annual or monthly) not both.

Once people see a Cash Flow (different from a annual budget) report they will see what is affecting thier empire right now.

Just suggestions.
If I get more info I will let you know.

Kevin
PS- Anyone else comment on my ideas??

(in reply to autarkis1967)

Post #: 42

RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/2/2010 10:19:47 AM

Gertjan

Posts: 698
Joined: 12/9/2009
Status: offline

@Saris, so Poland is going back to communism?

(in reply to boogaboo)

Post #: 43

RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/2/2010 4:51:22 PM

Jim D Burns

Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarissofoi

In Poland we have total tax about 70-80%. Yeah this sucks. A lot. No wonder that many educated peoples go to London to make any dirty job they get.
But real world asaide.

Something like that happen to me too. I have cash flow at +25k or something. And get red numbers. Remember that you pay for any your production on start. You cant buy ships when you dont have money.
I suspect deal with pirates. I pay one pirate faction for alliance(something about 2-3K for month) . I suspeced some bug here. Wheen I broke deal my finances get to normal almost instant.

I think the numbers displayed on the top right are annual (yearly) numbers, so a 25K+ income is just over 2k a month. So a 2k-3k deal with the pirates is eating up all your income and probably sending you into the red.

Erik mentioned somewhere that pirate deals will be included in the economic reports in a future patch, so the displayed incomes will hopefully then match realities in game after that.

Jim

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 4/2/2010 4:52:29 PM >

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(in reply to Sarissofoi)

Post #: 44

RE: Understanding the Economic Model - 4/2/2010 5:20:26 PM

licker

Posts: 46
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline

Is there a place to see the developmental level of your colonies?

(in reply to Jim D Burns)

Post #: 45