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Massive upgrading, can it really be done?

 
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Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/2/2010 5:51:03 PM   
HsojVvad

 

Posts: 1036
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		I was reading in the wish thread, and lots of people are asking for a button to massive upgrade or upgrade all ships. Is this really wise? I don't think it should be implimented. I tried to make 10 destroyers to combat pirates and at 94% all 10 stalled due to lack of resources.

So if we say we have 100 ships and have them all upgrade at the same time, I see these problems occuring. 1st all, we will be running out of resources and then upgrading will be stalled. 2nd, you will have 100 ships orbiting a star base waiting to be upgraded. Also these ships can run out of fuel while waiting for them to be upgraded.

I can see this, if CF inputs an all upgrade button, people will be complaining that their 100 fleet ships are not being upgraded. If this option happens we will have to be leary of that we don't have 100 docking bays. Also not having enough resources will slow or stall the upgrading process as well.

So be carefull for what you wish for. You might just regret it.
Post #: 1
RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/2/2010 6:03:00 PM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Maybe it could allow the player to choose the number of and which ships to mass upgrade in a particular group, fleet, class, sector, system, etcetera.

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Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

(in reply to HsojVvad)
Post #: 2
RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/2/2010 6:11:07 PM   
BigWolfChris


Posts: 634
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline 		I believe some form of mass retrofitting is needed... but not a "retrofit all" only button, we need abit more control than that
IMO, if you were to select multiple ships, you can still right click -> retrofit -> select upgrade
The game would hand out the orders only to selected ships that can accept that upgrade
Any other ship, doesn't get handed nothing


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RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/2/2010 6:11:28 PM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline 		I would like to see the AI do some upgrading or scuttling/building new of really old ship designs. (actually, ignore age... look at tech).
If a ship is 2 or 3 generations behind on some tech it should be upgraded by the AI or retired and a new one built...

I like playing epicly large games so I have everything but diplomacy on full out and I DO manually control some ships while letting my "generals" (the AI) control the rest of my forces...

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RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/2/2010 6:15:19 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I don't necessarily want to upgrade every ship of a class at the same time...but having to hunt down each ship individually on the main screen is a serious pain in the butt. This is by far the thing I want to see changed the most. In larger games it becomes incredibly tedious to keep up your tech.




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Post #: 5
RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/2/2010 6:18:31 PM   
taltamir

 

Posts: 1290
Joined: 4/2/2010
Status: offline 		how about an "upgrade protocol"... you mark a ship DESIGN for upgrading into another design...
20% of those ships are sent to upgrade. Each time a ship of said design finishes upgrading another one is sent to upgrade.

so if you had 10 of the original ship 2 are sent to upgrade... when those finished 2 more are sent, then 2 more, then 2 more, then the last 2. (unless some die in the interim)... Let players set which percentage should be upgrading at once and whether to round up or round down.

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Post #: 6
RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/2/2010 8:44:35 PM   
RonLugge


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Status: offline 		That sounds good, and is about what I'd expect.

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RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/2/2010 8:56:04 PM   
HsojVvad

 

Posts: 1036
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		These are all great comments guys. Now you see why, I don't think it's easy to impliment.

(in reply to RonLugge)
Post #: 8
RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/2/2010 9:06:39 PM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: taltamir

how about an "upgrade protocol"... you mark a ship DESIGN for upgrading into another design...
20% of those ships are sent to upgrade. Each time a ship of said design finishes upgrading another one is sent to upgrade.

so if you had 10 of the original ship 2 are sent to upgrade... when those finished 2 more are sent, then 2 more, then 2 more, then the last 2. (unless some die in the interim)... Let players set which percentage should be upgrading at once and whether to round up or round down.

Agreed. An empire leader should not have to direct individual ships in turns to go some place and upgrade.

_____________________________

Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

(in reply to taltamir)
Post #: 9
RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/2/2010 11:01:10 PM   
JonathanStrange


Posts: 114
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Maybe it could allow the player to choose the number of and which ships to mass upgrade in a particular group, fleet, class, sector, system, etcetera.


Easier upgrading - even in the form of ignoring some of the game's rules regard resource availability or whatever system constraint there is slowing the upgrade  (like having to send the ship back for refitting or if sent back for an upgrade having to wait in queue) - should be considered. 'Cause again a galactic empire should just give the order and not check to see if Captain Dunsel's ship is stuck waiting for spare parts and the Repair Crew's busy with merchant ships already. Some abstraction here might work.

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The opinions expressed by JonathanStrange are solely those of JonathanStrange and do not reflect the opinions of Matrix Games, the forum members of Matrix Games, the forum moderators, or JonathanStrange.

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Post #: 10
RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/2/2010 11:08:08 PM   
HsojVvad

 

Posts: 1036
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		One thing to forget, since lots of people like to have real life in the game, not all ships in the US force or UK, or even Russia, are all state of the art. There are alot of ships that are out of date but still being used. Then again I am from Canada and all our stuff is over 20 years old.

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Post #: 11
RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/2/2010 11:37:04 PM   
Siljanus

 

Posts: 35
Joined: 1/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigWolf

I believe some form of mass retrofitting is needed... but not a "retrofit all" only button, we need abit more control than that
IMO, if you were to select multiple ships, you can still right click -> retrofit -> select upgrade
The game would hand out the orders only to selected ships that can accept that upgrade
Any other ship, doesn't get handed nothing



The ship screen is the perfect place for focused retrofitting. Highlight the ships you wish to retrofit and off you go. You can already screen the list by type of ship to make it easier. Since you also have to take into account available resources, perhaps a popup showing how many of resource X is needed along with the availability of resource X could be implimented?

(in reply to BigWolfChris)
Post #: 12
RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/3/2010 12:46:41 AM   
RavenX


Posts: 58
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline 		Upgrading all of one "Type" at a time would seem to be the way to go. That or select a group of ships en mass that need to be upgraded and then upgrade them.

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Post #: 13
RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/3/2010 1:47:01 AM   
HsojVvad

 

Posts: 1036
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		The thing is RavenX, if you have 100 destroyers, do you really want them all upgraded at the same time? Do you have that many docking bays? Do you have any ships in being built? If they are then they will have to wait. Also if you have ships in the que waiting to be built, what gets built first? The ships in que or the ships being upgraded? See it's not so easy. So now the game developers will have to figure a way to do this. I think there will be no easy answer since someone will complain about it, not matter what CF does.

Unless they have some great idea, I think this is one they will have to leave alone. Too many variables that will happen if all of them get done at once.

That would be like GM or Toyota trying to fix every single car that was recalled. It can't be done all at once, and it will cost massive money to do.

(in reply to RavenX)
Post #: 14
RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/3/2010 3:03:16 AM   
JonathanStrange


Posts: 114
Joined: 3/13/2010
Status: offline 		Which is exactly why I suggested in this case, for playability, something like RavenX's suggestion and just ignore all the micro-details about docking bays, ship queues, resources, etc. and having the player simply choose a certain number of ships and pay for the upgrade which happens then and there. 

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The opinions expressed by JonathanStrange are solely those of JonathanStrange and do not reflect the opinions of Matrix Games, the forum members of Matrix Games, the forum moderators, or JonathanStrange.

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Post #: 15
RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/3/2010 3:27:11 AM   
frugaldude

 

Posts: 85
Joined: 3/22/2010
Status: offline 		I would prefer the AI to upgrade all ships under AI control automatically by ships age.  Once a ship has 10 years of service (or whatever term Matrix deems appropriate) it is time for retrofit.  Just like a scheduled dry-dock or an overhaul.

This function should be overridden by a 'state of war' of course.  Mid-battle retrofits might prove to be inconvenient
.
As long as a ship's AI is turned off it would not be recalled for a retrofit.  This would allow you the control your personal fleets actions (Attacking pirates, posturing for surprise attacks, etc.) without ships defecting for retrofits.  As soon as the ship returns to AI control it would be liable to the overhaul schedule.

I would prefer this method as the computer opponent AIs' could get some of the same benefits.  Also as sovereign it would be beneath my dignity to concern myself with such mundane matters.

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Post #: 16
RE: Massive upgrading, can it really be done? - 4/3/2010 3:58:40 AM   
RavenX


Posts: 58
Joined: 11/24/2009
Status: offline 		Perhaps to refine it only upgrade certain designs. You may have 100 destroyers, but only 10 of your favorite design of destroyers. When you upgrade, you upgrade only the ones of that design instead of all destroyers.

_____________________________

What do I see? I see time as it affects all things. Human flesh whithers and dies before my eyes. Flowers bloom, only to fade. Trees drop green leaves, never to regain them. In my sight, it is always winter, always night. ~ Raistlin Majere

(in reply to frugaldude)
Post #: 17
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