(German) Pilot replacements

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(German) Pilot replacements - 4/4/2010 12:31:03 AM

Derfel

Posts: 85
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Aalborg, Denmark
Status: offline

As I see it working now:
The GGEDtBtR program will assign pilots to units starting with the first in the database and working its way to the end of the database, until it has no more replacement pilots to assign. The program do not check if an unit is deployed or will be deployed later on.

This leads to units, that will be deployed a year or more from now, to receive (more) replacement pilots, than a unit that has already been deployed, as the deployed unit is located at the end of the database and the unit that will become available later might be located at the start of the database.

Is this a faulty observation or is it spot on?

If it is spot on, then can we implement a fix for it in the next patch?
If it is a faulty observation, then could there be done something to clarify or elaborate how replacements get into a unit.

Post #: 1

RE: (German) Pilot replacements - 4/5/2010 1:56:19 PM

Hard Sarge

Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline

sorry for the delay, I was hopeing Harley would handle this one

as I can't give you a good answer

I am not sure, one thing you may be seeing, is my pilots, there are units that I add pilots to, based on the turn (so, a unit that is not in action and losing pilots, may suddenly look like it is getting a lot of extra pilots)

so lets see

1 Stab/JG 1 Fw 190A-6 508 Luftflotte Reich 0
2 I./JG 1 Fw 190A-5 503 Luftflotte 3 0
3 II./JG 1 Fw 190A-6 508 Luftflotte Reich 0
4 III./JG 1 Bf 109G-6 503 Luftflotte 3 0
5 Stab/JG 2 Fw 190A-6 508 Luftflotte Reich 0
6 I./JG 2 Fw 190A-5 503 Luftflotte 3 0
7 II./JG 2 Bf 109G-6 503 Luftflotte 3 0
8 III./JG 2 Fw 190A-5 503 Luftflotte 3 0
9 Stab/JG 3 Bf 109G-6 508 Luftflotte Reich 0
10 I./JG 3 Bf 109G-6 508 Luftflotte Reich 0
11 II./JG 3 Bf 109G-6/R6 508 Luftflotte Reich 0
12 III./JG 3 Bf 109G-6/R6 508 Luftflotte Reich 0
13 IV./JG 3 Bf 109G-6 502 Luftflotte 2 0
14 I./JG 4 Bf 109G-6 507 Luft. Sud Ost 0
15 Stab/JG 4 Fw 190A-8 508 Luftflotte Reich 320
16 I./JG 5 Bf 109G-6 508 Luftflotte Reich 0
17 II./JG 5 Bf 109G-6 508 Luftflotte Reich 254
18 JGr. 200 Bf 109G-6 503 Luftflotte 3 289
19 Stab/EJG 2 Me 262A 508 Luftflotte Reich 437
20 III./JG 400 Me 163B 508 Luftflotte Reich 489
23 Epr Kdo Hohen Bf 109H-2 508 Luftflotte Reich 300
24 Stab/JG 7 Me 262A 508 Luftflotte Reich 489
25 I./JG 7 Me 262A 508 Luftflotte Reich 489
26 II./JG 7 Me 262A 508 Luftflotte Reich 999
27 Kommando Nowotny Me 262A 508 Luftflotte Reich 430
28 II./JG 10 Fw 190A-8 508 Luftflotte Reich 314

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Post #: 2

RE: (German) Pilot replacements - 4/5/2010 2:13:34 PM

Hard Sarge

Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
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I don't think so

now my test wasn't too swift, but...

ran 10 turns with no combat

at start

Stab JG1=6
I/JG1=44
II/JG1=43
III/JG1=44
Stab JG2=7
I/JG2=38
II/JG2=50
III/JG2=35

after 10 turns the numbers were

6
44
43
44

7
38
50
36

all but the last unit was overstrength and only the one that wasn't picked up a AI pilot

so, it is not overloading the early data base units

I will have to go back in and look at the units on delay (wasn't thinking about those)

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RE: (German) Pilot replacements - 4/5/2010 2:31:38 PM

Hard Sarge

Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline

okay, I see the issue now

I can fix that in the data (from what I see)

in a nut shell, I gave units on delay planes, if the unit don't have enough pilots to match the planes, the game is trying to give them enough pilots to match the planes

I am not sure if the "fix" is a good thing or a bad thing

IE, the unit is ready to come in, it won't have any planes, if there are not enough in stock to supply them, and the unit with out planes, will also be simi short of pilots, unless there is a stockpile of them waiting

kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don't !

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Post #: 4

RE: (German) Pilot replacements - 4/5/2010 4:24:07 PM

Derfel

Posts: 85
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Aalborg, Denmark
Status: offline

I think that it is a good idea to let the reinforcing units not have too many airplanes, unless the unit is an existing Gruppe, transferred in from another front.
That way the German player is forced to use more of his production to produce planes instead of pushing Wunderwaffen

into combat.

In the Perfect World(tm) it would be up to the player to raise new Gruppen when he needs them, equip them with pilots and planes. Alas this game is not the Perfect World(tm).

I see your pain in:

quote:

kind of a damned if you do and damned if you don't !

as it will open a Pandoras box of worms

in deciding when units get activated and what they do have on hand in pilots and aircraft.

For example the I/JG400:
20. staffel/JG1 in Marts 1944 transformed into 1./JG400 on 26th of April 1944. The Stab Schwarm (without planes!)and the 2./JG400 and 3./JG400 was activated in July 1944. 4./JG400 was activated in October 1944
However as a Gruppe they had operational Me 163B in June 1944 and their first operation was launched on 28th July 1944 against US Bombers.

The cadre for the Me 163 was Erprobungskommando 16 which was set up in 1943 to test the aircraft operationally, that only gave up training pilots for JG400 about August 1944, when it itself was transformed into III/JG400.

Fixing the data will eliminate the situation that units that will come online in 1945 will receive pilots with a 1943 quality. It would also be good for the Axis if they are able to keep the loss of pilots low, then the quality of their replacement pilots will be able to increase.

So instead of the better fix, of fixing the program, a good fix would be to fix the data

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Post #: 5

RE: (German) Pilot replacements - 4/5/2010 5:13:05 PM

kaybayray

Posts: 424
Joined: 6/1/2007
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Reading through this started me thinking. I have not yet played a campaign through to 45. I am wondering, is it possible that a Group (on either side) could run out of Pilots? I have only played from the Allied perspective. Can the Allies run out of Pilots? Could a side run completely out of pilots?

Just curious how the game handles this. I could see how this could be a very serious problem.

Regards,
KayBay

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Post #: 6

RE: (German) Pilot replacements - 4/5/2010 6:04:36 PM

Hard Sarge

Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
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Derfel

funny, you should mention JG400, that is the main area of my thinking, most players will kill off the 163, so the idea was to make sure they are least have something, but, I don't want the 400's pulling pilots away from the front line combat units

it will be tricky, but i think what I can do, is assign as many planes as I know I got pilots for each unit, so a middle ground thing, they won't pull replacement pilots until they should, and also will at least have some planes

KayBay

well, the Allies "could" run out of pilots, if there losses are heavy enough, but, they would have to really be heavy

remember, the Aussies have there own stock, the Zealanders, the Canadains, the Yanks, the RAF, the SA, normally, the Axis has a much better chance of running out of pilots (even more so, trained pilots)

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Post #: 7

RE: (German) Pilot replacements - 4/6/2010 3:24:57 AM

harley

Posts: 1700
Joined: 10/13/2005
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I did have a quick look at the code, and verified the order Derfel asked about, but condtional on what HS said about matching pilots to in-stock AC. Looks like I could do some tweaking. I didn't look into the on-delay issue.

Given some improvements I've already made in the tracking side, I might weight the replacements to the units with lowest %, or to the units most-in-combat, or most skilled or most successful, or a combination...

I've got huge plans, I can't get them all done quickly, though.

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RE: (German) Pilot replacements - 4/6/2010 9:37:52 AM

Derfel

Posts: 85
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Aalborg, Denmark
Status: offline

Dreaming of huge plans(tm)

I think that a good option would be to have a Refit button for a unit, idea taken from War In the East, where a unit stand down and has a first priority in getting pilots and planes. To avoid any exploit in toggling Refit on and off after a fighter sweep, one could have a unit refit for a week at a time?

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RE: (German) Pilot replacements - 4/6/2010 11:29:46 AM

harley

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damned if that's not a great idea.

I was thinking of a more simple version of that - more a "stand down" button, which would just leave the pilots billetted for a day - but a full-on refit sounds like a good solution.

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Post #: 10

RE: (German) Pilot replacements - 4/6/2010 12:16:10 PM

Hard Sarge

Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline

let me know, do you want me to do a quick and dirty change the OOB that we could then release now, or should I wait on your
plans" :)

(yea, I would like to see a button to pull the pilots from the planes, when stood down)

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Post #: 11