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Whats a good tip of refueling?

 
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Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 5:22:40 AM   
HsojVvad

 

Posts: 1036
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		Well I am in a predicament, and thinking of starting a new game since I am not having much fun at the moment. Maybe I have to change my strategy though.

I am in a 100 star map so the distances between stars can be huge. I have the unfortune that none of the stars close to me have any rescources in them, so I can't send my refueling ship to them and deploy at a star or planet. No gas gaints either, but one frozen planet though. The pirates are out of my range. I made a defensive base thinking I can refuel there. Nope, can't do that. So is there any bases we can make to have as gas stations, so ships can refuel there? What else can I do beside refitting all my ships with more fuel tanks? Maybe this is the only way of doing it, but I want to make shure.

Any tips and help would be appreciated. What am I missing?
Post #: 1
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 5:40:51 AM   
Wicky

 

Posts: 102
Joined: 4/1/2010
From: Linz, Austria
Status: offline 		You should restart the game. With only 1 system (I assume) and no fuel sources nearby you are going to have a very tough game.
The only thing what you can do, is to find the next nearest gas planet with casion/hydrogen and build a mining station there but you already knew that.

(in reply to HsojVvad)
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RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 5:47:08 AM   
HsojVvad

 

Posts: 1036
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		Yeah, so I am screwed eh? Well I think I will restart the game. I just love my home world. It's a moon on a gas giant. Thing is the other gas giant is right beside it, so it looks like I am circling 2 gas giants. Well I will have to consider this a chalange and figure a way around this. I guess I will have to have less armour and weaponry on my destroyers, so more fuel tanks can go inside and see how this fairs for me.

The only thing I can see is thing being a glitch. Will the AI actually build ships with more fuel tanks so they can attack my capital then if it's far out of reach then? If I can't get them, they can't get me then.

(in reply to Wicky)
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RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 6:06:41 AM   
lordxorn


Posts: 768
Joined: 12/6/2009
Status: offline 		Try this, custom design a starbase with a few energy collectors, alot of docking bays, and tons of fuel and cargo space. Here is why, even though your starbase I not mining fuel, your civilian freighters will fill up the huge fuel tank of your starbase. Now it is acting like a tender, that is pre-positioned. The USMC does this all over the world. I don't know if a chain of these bases would work.

Also your situation is not that limiting, you just have to design around it. Custom design your ships with lots of fuel storage so they have the range to expand, also make sure your explorers are equiped the same, maybe you missed some systems.

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RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 6:06:52 AM   
OrigamiZoo

 

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Status: offline 		This reminded me of a question... If you throw a gas miner on a ship (explorer for example), can/will it use it to refuel?

Well, after a quick trial... survey says: Nope.
Oh well.

< Message edited by OrigamiZoo -- 4/9/2010 6:52:08 AM >

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RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 6:08:22 AM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Are their any Gas Clouds for your resupply ships?


_____________________________

Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

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RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 6:20:44 AM   
HsojVvad

 

Posts: 1036
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Status: offline 		There is a few gas clouds. Why you ask?

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RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 10:11:26 AM   
Resan

 

Posts: 98
Joined: 4/1/2010
Status: offline 		You can build gas mining station in gas clouds.

As for refueling station. I think if you build a station with lots of cargo space it can work as a depot, but it need to be a "Space Port" type before freighters bothers to fill it up. Still you would get all kind of stuff there, not just fuel.

(in reply to HsojVvad)
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RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 1:55:31 PM   
Conflictx

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 4/8/2010
From: Belgium
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrigamiZoo

This reminded me of a question... If you throw a gas miner on a ship (explorer for example), can/will it use it to refuel?

Well, after a quick trial... survey says: Nope.
Oh well.


It does work, i put a gas miner and docking bays and another 6-8 cargo bays on a capital ship and made it mine Hydrogen, it doesnt use this automatically. But when i selected refuel at nearest station it refueled itself and, other ships can refuel there to.
I also added in a Commerce center, but no idea if it has any use on the capital ship.

< Message edited by Conflictx -- 4/9/2010 1:56:41 PM >

_____________________________

BSG Colonial - Ship and Base Set
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RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 7:41:17 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1781
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline 		If you like to build fleets, make sure you set a standard "Fuel Capacity" for all your ships. I also suggest a standard speed. In other words, all your ships hold 280 caslon or whatever you like.

The standard designs at the beginning of the game are useless IMHO. As detailed by others on the forum here, every ship needs energy collectors. Your "Energy Collection" value (in the top right of the "Edit Design" window) should exceed or equal "Static Energy Output". I also recommend adding more fuel cells than provided by the AI in the beginning.

Last tip, for fleets and ships you control -- conserve energy. Do not have them patrol, etc. Make them sit, ready and fueled up for when you need them. I create very small, cheap monitoring stations (star bases) in deep space all around my empire and near enemy holdings.  They basically exist to hold a Long Range Scanner (which is a large component when placed on a ship). Don't put them in a system. They attract attention in systems. When I see enemy fleets moving somewhere, I then put my fueled, quick reaction forces into action. Otherwise they sit in a system using their energy collectors instead of fuel.

There are some more details, but you get the idea.

p.s. as soon as combat in concluded, your fleet needs to go and fuel up (and repair) as the next immediate step... then back to sitting still. Make sure your guys are fueled and ready at a moments notice.

p.p.s. check the cargo hold of your resupply ship--is there plenty of fuel in there? Remember, your resupply ship does NOT/NOT need to be deployed at a Gas Giant to act as a fuel base. It can be placed anywhere. You only need the Gas Giant and deployment to fill up the cargo hold with fuel.


 


< Message edited by Malevolence -- 4/9/2010 7:50:47 PM >

(in reply to Conflictx)
Post #: 10
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 7:43:22 PM   
murteas

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 3/31/2010
Status: offline 		Don't the sensor bases need fuel/energy? If so, how do they get it if they are not in a system?

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RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 7:52:01 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1781
Joined: 4/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: murteas

Don't the sensor bases need fuel/energy? If so, how do they get it if they are not in a system?


Not a bit for the sensor to work.

(in reply to murteas)
Post #: 12
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 8:12:58 PM   
HsojVvad

 

Posts: 1036
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		Yes all my military ships have solar panels on them and never move. First thing I do is order the stop order for them. I didn't know about supply ships not being needed to be deployed in order to refuel other ships. Are you saying that once the supply ship is made, I tell it to go to a gas giant or star in my system and deploy, it will fill up with gas, then I can order the supply ship to go with my fleet and then when the fleet needs to refuel, it will go the supply ship with them, even if it's not deployed? This sounds good.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 13
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 8:44:54 PM   
thiosk


Posts: 150
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		New game priority 1: Deploy gas mining stations at a caslon/hydrogen containing world. Stars are far away, and ya need gas to get there.

Priorities 2 and 3 are COLONIES and LUXURIES, respectively.

< Message edited by thiosk -- 4/9/2010 8:45:08 PM >

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RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 8:51:27 PM   
HsojVvad

 

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Joined: 3/24/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thiosk

New game priority 1: Deploy gas mining stations at a caslon/hydrogen containing world. Stars are far away, and ya need gas to get there.

Priorities 2 and 3 are COLONIES and LUXURIES, respectively.

Can a resuply ship deploy even if a gas mining station is already there?

(in reply to thiosk)
Post #: 15
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 9:23:12 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1781
Joined: 4/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Davor

Yes all my military ships have solar panels on them and never move. First thing I do is order the stop order for them. I didn't know about supply ships not being needed to be deployed in order to refuel other ships. Are you saying that once the supply ship is made, I tell it to go to a gas giant or star in my system and deploy, it will fill up with gas, then I can order the supply ship to go with my fleet and then when the fleet needs to refuel, it will go the supply ship with them, even if it's not deployed? This sounds good.


Yes, like many things in DW, discovered quite by accident. I note this is based on tests after 1.0.3 patch.

Also keep in mind the cargo will run out, so make sure to fill it back up. I use three with expeditionary fleets and rotate them into the theater.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 4/9/2010 9:26:06 PM >

(in reply to HsojVvad)
Post #: 16
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 9:23:24 PM   
Malevolence


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Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Davor


quote:

ORIGINAL: thiosk

New game priority 1: Deploy gas mining stations at a caslon/hydrogen containing world. Stars are far away, and ya need gas to get there.

Priorities 2 and 3 are COLONIES and LUXURIES, respectively.

Can a resuply ship deploy even if a gas mining station is already there?


Yes.

(in reply to HsojVvad)
Post #: 17
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 9:38:05 PM   
Gertjan

 

Posts: 698
Joined: 12/9/2009
Status: offline 		Cool, thanks (again)!

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 18
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 10:03:54 PM   
HsojVvad

 

Posts: 1036
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		Thank you Malevolence.

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Post #: 19
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 10:51:40 PM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Wow! Thanks, Conflictx and Malevolence.
So, apparently you can have 'resupply ships' and 'resupply fitted capital ships' act as in/at fleet 'resupply tanker/tender ships'.
Can such ships be automated to go refill fuel and return to refuel the fleet?

I have such ships in my wishlist:
quote:

13.
-A very large fuel tanker/tender ship that has certain components allowing it to fuel/repair far deployed ships would be good. It could act like a freighter by carrying fuel from based resupply ships and bases to far deployed ships and repair them via components such as those in resupply ships and construction ships.

update: Apparently you can have 'resupply ships' and 'resupply fitted capital ships' act as in/at fleet 'resupply tanker/tender ships'. Can such ships be automated to go refill fuel and return to refuel the fleet?
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2432568 (Whats a good tip of refueling?)

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2418281&mpage=1&key=? (Master Wishlist Thread)

< Message edited by Wade1000 -- 4/10/2010 12:06:27 AM >

_____________________________

Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

(in reply to HsojVvad)
Post #: 20
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/9/2010 11:53:21 PM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1781
Joined: 4/3/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

Can such ships be automated to go refill fuel and return to refuel the fleet?



Frankly, I don't know what it does on automation. I don't give my slaves much authority in my empire.

Test it?

I know it will sit in space and when I select the entire fleet I can right-click on the resupply ship and everyone goes and refuels there. The name of the ship pop's up along with the other options (at nearest refueling point, and at your nearest space port). When the ship runs close to empty on fuel in the CARGO, I tell it to go fill up at the nearest gas giant. When it's filled, I order it back to some safespot near the combat fleet.

If the AI is written using a goal driven agent behavior it should and queue/stack the actions.

A note on safety, based on my play the AI seems to concentrate on activities inside systems. Things you do in deep space go largely unnoticed. I have yet to have one my strike forces sitting just a few seconds outside a target system preemptively attacked. Same goes for my logistics slaves.

p.s. yes, I do add construction modules to my re-supply ships.


< Message edited by Malevolence -- 4/10/2010 12:00:15 AM >

(in reply to Wade1000)
Post #: 21
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/10/2010 12:10:12 AM   
HsojVvad

 

Posts: 1036
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		I don't get it. Why would you put construction modules on re-supply ships?

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Post #: 22
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/10/2010 12:11:57 AM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1781
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline 		Repair damaged ships far from home... and build deep-space monitoring stations, etc.

Think of them as tenders.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 4/10/2010 12:12:09 AM >

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Post #: 23
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/10/2010 12:14:31 AM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Yep, TENDERS! Huge resupply and repair ships. Cool, thanks.

_____________________________

Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 24
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/10/2010 12:14:47 AM   
HsojVvad

 

Posts: 1036
Joined: 3/24/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks again Mlevolence. I never thought of that. I hope I remember to do this, when I start playing DW again. How would I order a ship to repair at the tender?

< Message edited by Davor -- 4/10/2010 12:15:26 AM >

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 25
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/10/2010 12:17:54 AM   
Wade1000


Posts: 771
Joined: 10/27/2009
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		-Now if a new design was added called "tender" then maybe once automated it could leave to refill it's fuel tanks then return to the location of the wherever the fleet it was servicing was at or has moved onward to.
Or, can this be made to be done already with the resupply ship design?

< Message edited by Wade1000 -- 4/10/2010 12:18:19 AM >

_____________________________

Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

(in reply to HsojVvad)
Post #: 26
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/10/2010 12:19:21 AM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1781
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline 		I'm sure you realize that resupply ships are created at colonies. Until someone decides to nerf them, they are not constrained in size by your construction tech level. If you have the cash, they are the true death stars, motherships, supercarriers, dreadnaughts, whatever you want to call them.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 4/10/2010 12:21:36 AM >

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Post #: 27
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/10/2010 12:29:46 AM   
OrigamiZoo

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 4/9/2010
Status: offline 		I guess I should have been more specific with my test results.
I could order my ship to mine, and it would... But it had no effect when my ship was given the refuel command.
I was using an explorer ship with 1 extractor and 1 cargo, otherwise default config.
I'll test what happens if I add a docking bay, since that might change how it acts.

(in reply to Malevolence)
Post #: 28
RE: Whats a good tip of refueling? - 4/10/2010 12:42:13 AM   
Malevolence


Posts: 1781
Joined: 4/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrigamiZoo

I guess I should have been more specific with my test results.
I could order my ship to mine, and it would... But it had no effect when my ship was given the refuel command.
I was using an explorer ship with 1 extractor and 1 cargo, otherwise default config.
I'll test what happens if I add a docking bay, since that might change how it acts.



I'm also note sure what part the "role" category plays on the command menu. I am, however, totally sure that ships and bases/ports cannot exchange things/repair other ships without docking bays. The docking bays determine how many ships your ship/base can support at a time. If you only have one docking bay on your resupply ship, each ship in the fleet will go one at a time.

On the "Edit Design" screen, look at the box in the middle right side titled "Industry". At the bottom of that list, "Docking Bays", tells you how many ships your design can service at a time.

--EDIT: Let me clarify about repairs: I'm not sure if the damaged ship uses the docking bay or the ship yard slot or both. All my ship yards have docking bays. Someone can test if they like.

< Message edited by Malevolence -- 4/10/2010 12:47:34 AM >

(in reply to OrigamiZoo)
Post #: 29
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