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RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/12/2010 4:44:07 PM   
JonathanStrange


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I like allowing merchant ships to have limited defensive weapons without incurring negative reputation hits. 'Cause who's kidding who?

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Post #: 31
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/12/2010 5:51:04 PM   
ASHBERY76


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I am happy the bloated economy is going to be balanced as it is making the game choices seem pointless.I am also hoping the fleets stop refueling at other empires bases is also included.

Auto-Refueling is win.

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RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/12/2010 5:54:38 PM   
Drone_Fragger

 

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Any chance that a "Patrol system" order can be added for fleets? Where the fleet will split up and evenly distribute itself around colonies and bases in the system, and then attempt to converge on any enemies that enter the system? Becuase currently all you can order a fleet to do defence wise is to patrol a single colony or base which is kinda useless since it's possible enemies will just ignore that planet/base and attack an undefended one.

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Post #: 33
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/12/2010 7:07:13 PM   
EisenHammer


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Looks like another nice update for a great game. Keep up the good work guys.

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Post #: 34
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/12/2010 7:24:19 PM   
thiosk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Drone_Fragger

Any chance that a "Patrol system" order can be added for fleets? Where the fleet will split up and evenly distribute itself around colonies and bases in the system, and then attempt to converge on any enemies that enter the system? Becuase currently all you can order a fleet to do defence wise is to patrol a single colony or base which is kinda useless since it's possible enemies will just ignore that planet/base and attack an undefended one.


This is exactly what ordering the ship to patrol the central star should do.

(in reply to Drone_Fragger)
Post #: 35
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/12/2010 9:12:43 PM   
Krelos

 

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Rebalancing the planets will be awesome. No more systems routinely having 4-8 volcanic/ice planets, 2-4 ocean planets and 1-2 continental/marsh/desert planets.

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Post #: 36
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/12/2010 9:14:33 PM   
Aloid


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Excellent support!
 
I can see eliminating colonization in someone's home system, but jockeying for position everywhere else is an exciting part of the game.  If they don't like it they can ask me to leave diplomatically (and visa versa).
 
I'd really like to see a button to publicly humiliate my leadership for running my economy into the ground.  Do I hear calls for privatizing the military?  hahahaha!

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Post #: 37
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/12/2010 10:14:08 PM   
thiosk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Krelos

Rebalancing the planets will be awesome. No more systems routinely having 4-8 volcanic/ice planets, 2-4 ocean planets and 1-2 continental/marsh/desert planets.



Agreed. WAYYYY too many ocean planets in the game, in general.

I notice so many ocean planets and almost no marsh planets.

(in reply to Krelos)
Post #: 38
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/12/2010 10:20:56 PM   
Anthropoid


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You guys are great!

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Post #: 39
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/12/2010 10:29:12 PM   
Drone_Fragger

 

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Yeah a button to stick military ships up for sale would be pretty awesome. That could also lead to more exciting colony revolts since now they are armed with your outdated ships!

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Post #: 40
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/12/2010 10:57:11 PM   
Wade1000


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Nice update. Many popular requests are being added in a very fast fasion. Thankyou.

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Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

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Post #: 41
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 12:01:17 AM   
Joram

 

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No offense but limiting ship designs seems to be a pretty lazy way of addressing the issues. If you continue down that track you're going to wind up with a lot of artificial limits and that's just going to be more confusing than addressing the root issues. But regardless, look forward to seeing the next iteration.

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Post #: 42
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 12:27:26 AM   
lancer

 

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Goodaye,

With regard to rebalancing of resources would it be possible to instead provide a game start option where the player decides on the frequency of resources in the galaxy. Eg. low - normal - abundant?

Reason I ask is that you are never going to manage to hit a sweet spot with this issue as everybody has widely different views on what constitutes 'acceptable'. Perhaps best to give them the option.

You also currently have a huge exploit where a player can park a mining ship on a single resource with multiple extraction modules onboard and that single resource is all he will ever need. It makes the frequency of resources throughout the galaxy irrevelant.

Appreciating the fast turnaround on the updates. Well done.

Cheers,
Lancer

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Post #: 43
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 12:48:36 AM   
Wade1000


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I don't like requiring a certain amount of cargo bays in a resupply ship. It's an artificial limitation like another game has. It is arbitrary and nonsensical. So, we can build some larger ship hulls as long as the designs are of the resupply ship variety and it has a certain amount of cargo bays.

What special properties might the cargo bays have that allow them to hold together larger ships?

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Wish list:population centers beyond planetary(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture):Ships,Ring Orbitals,Sphere Orbitals,Ringworlds,Sphereworlds;ability to create & destroy planets,population centers,stars;AI competently using all advances & features.

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Post #: 44
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 2:58:57 AM   
FerretStyle

 

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quote:


Auto-Refueling is win.


+1

I wonder has the mining station detachment bug been addressed? Maybe in 1.03 and I overlooked it? That's a game killer for me, tbh.

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Post #: 45
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 5:41:08 AM   
Kushan04


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Thanks for the update Erik.

I'm still getting a few "out of memory" errors, any chance this issue will finally go away?

Kushan


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Post #: 46
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 8:09:09 AM   
Engerya

 

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i want the private economy of my empire to demade luxery goods more it seems like they are not traded as they should be, we need more demand for luxery goods as an empire grows don't know how it works now but needs to be reworked.

also i think we need an option to disable the game editor at the start of a game i just can't resist using it when i need a few more ships or want to make my Capital planet uber good.

we need more political events just ramdom stuff that effects things like trade, empire relationships, the economy a whole host of other things.

i also encounted a bug where you can't edit the size of stars any more an dif you manage to do so or create a new one the game screen goes away and turns into a giant red X this started happening in 1.02 and got worst with 1.03.

also i understand that their are some moons that are colonisable but it seems like 80% of each game your empire will consist of mostly moons this isnt a bug but its annoying. i wish that you guys give us the tools to edit how each system should be generated.

i hope you update includes a way to make the game run more efficiently on a dual or single core system, i can play a 1400 star game till i get arounf 200 econo ships then it starts acting weird, zoom bugs ships get jittery, i also don't understand why that happends but it seems that instead of better managing the ships it have the ai makes more freighters as the player expands its empires planet list which is silly i dont need 4000 economy ships when they are only space port camping. we need a way to limit how many private ships are built.

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Post #: 47
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 1:40:02 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
As it currently stands I get very strange results with multiple named designs of the same role. The name sometimes suddenly changes (particularly if I have chosen my own name) instead of increasing the roman numeral. Bases suddenly go from being "Weapons Research" to "Star Base" and then I have three or four "Star Base" designs with nothing to distinguish them except the costs and size.


Yes, we know about this one, there are a few areas where the AI is still unintentionally stepping on the human player a bit. We will get to the ship design naming issues as soon as we can.

The AI should be using the latest non-obsolete design when it build ships automatically, whether Ship Design is automatic or under manual control.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 48
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 1:41:43 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gertjan
Please dont do this, instead please reduce the relationship penalty you get from colonisation in each other's systems (in particular if they have friendly relations/treaties). I find it nice that there is his current relationships in which empires can share a star system.


We're approaching these balance issues from a few different angles. After looking through a lot of save files, we think that making colonization in the same systems less likely is also a necessary thing. It will still happen, but the situations where it happens will be a bit more realistic.


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Post #: 49
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 1:51:47 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman
The problem with this approach is that cargo space doesn't need to be very high on ANY kind of ship before the amount of cargo space available becomes Ridiculously Huge. This was an issue in Space Empires as well: The requirements of sticking a large percentage of cargo space on a ship resulted in even small transports developing Ridiculously Huge cargo capacity far in excess of anything that anyone would sanely NEED, simply because it was required to be there. If anything, there shouldn't be any explicit limit, resupply ships should simply be limited to the size of a deep-space base instead of treated as a planetary base, or the limit should be in absolute cargo space rather than percentage, especially since the game already seems to treat resupply ships as a "giant mothership". If you consider an 800-point resupply ship with a 25% cargo space requirement, the resupply ship will have 200 points of cargo bays, or 25 cargo bays, for a capacity of 25000. This is a RIDICULOUSLY HUGE amount of cargo space that exceeds that of mining bases.


This is a first step simply because Resupply ships were intended to be more like another variant of construction ships than "world ships". I think this will help. For those concerned that we're taking away the ability to build world ships, keep in mind that as your size limits go on up you can still build some really huge ships and also remember that we will be adding and expanding to the game in the future.

quote:

Does this fix the annoyance where ships ordered to do something like load troops, retrofit, or move will decide to drop their orders in favor of doing something idiotic, like chasing a frigate, instead of doing what they're told to do?


I believe that's fixed, from what I've seen. Once 1.0.4 goes beta, if you see anything that looks like an issue feel free to upload a save for us and we'll investigate. This also addresses the issue where fleets on manual control could lose their orders when a "suggestion" came through from the AI for them to do something else and the player rejected it.

quote:

This is very vague. Does this mean more colonizable planets and more resources, or less?


Somewhat less of both, as part of both rebalancing the economy and improving performance and memory usage, as we found that once the economy was working perfectly the game started to exceed our expectations in terms of how much "stuff" was being created. The base cost of resources will also be increased a bit, there are number of other methods we're using to make sure that new games in 1.0.4 are better balanced in terms of economy and performance. This will not help older saves, but should make new games quite a bit better.

quote:

What is "reasonable" and "defensive weapons"?


Basically, one defensive weapon per civilian ship is considered "ok" by the AI. Beyond that, they will consider it less of a civilian ship and more of a privateer of some kind. I hear you on the rest. Over time as we make further improvements to diplomacy, I think the limits here may become more flexible again. For now, we wanted to allow players to give civilian ships a limited defense without bothering the AI.

quote:

Does this mean that they will disregard orders and run off and chase enemies, or merely that they will fire upon any targets of opportunity if not given a specific target and merely told to move? Will they cease firing when their fuel starts to run low so they have enough to leave the fight and make it back to base?


We hope the latter, but this is not yet completed for testing. We're testing the economy right now.


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RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 1:52:40 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Resan
"Rebalance number of colonizable planets and abundance of resources" - This is to slow the economy down a bit?
and this "Trade valuations for colonies, bases and tech rebalanced" will make the AI less likely to sell it's colonies?


Correct, that's basically the idea.


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Post #: 51
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 1:55:44 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sbach2o
It should fix the problem that a fleet of yours that is under complete manual control may suddenly become idle. I've think I've seen this often, but I couldn't really nail it, was never entirely sure I hadn't done something stupid. It may happen when a fleet is scattered, part of it doing combat while the rest is on move or refuel order. Suddenly when combat has ended for part of a fleet (or so I think without having any way to back this hypothesis up), every ship stands idle. Which is bad, bad, bad when you wanted to collect all those ships somewhere or have those low on fuel remedy the situation. Has been a major headache for me.


Yes, it should address that. Note that you can also help this now by selecting your fleet and hitting "a" to automate it. It's only when on fully manual control that they were not reacting at all unless ordered to do so.

quote:

Good point. For me, either it's useless or too much. I found the current situation preferable and would have liked it, if the ship designer forbade putting arms on civilians or warned clearly about it. But you cannot please everyone.


I think adding a warning is a good idea as well.

quote:

Disregarding of manual orders already happens - around bases as far as I have seen. Recent event: A smaller fleet of mine was engaging an enemy base while being intercepted by enemy fleet. The fleet was the bigger threat to me, so I manually ordered my ships to engange and gang up on enemy ships. After a short while, most or all of my fleet snapped back to engage the base. Me fuming!


Was the base firing at you?

quote:

What Eric probably means, and is another 'me fuming' inducing occurence, is when the current target of a group of ships is destroyed, this group of ships goes idle for a (more or less long) time while combat is raging all around, often within weapons range. This is just so awful. And it doesn't seem to hit the AI empire's fleets as much or at all.


Yes, that's the main focus of that improvement. The AI keeps its fleets automated, which is why you don't see it happening with them. If you use "a" to automate the ships in your fleet at the end of a manually targeted combat this will also work for you until we finish this update.


< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 4/13/2010 1:56:30 PM >


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Post #: 52
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 1:58:22 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard
On the topic of empires colonizing inside one of your systems, couldn't there be some kind of alert if an alien colony ship arrives. Then a diplomatic warning could be issued to the offending empire? They could choose to back off, just like if it were a military ship.


We plan to handle this more through diplomacy and warnings in the future as well, but a rebalancing of when an AI empire would really want to create an "incident" by colonizing in your system was in order.

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Post #: 53
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 2:00:52 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RViener
Erik, I think expanding the diplomatic options so one empire can request permission to colonize a planet already colonized and in another's Sphere of Influence should be apart of this tweak. I believe that the "sphere of influence" should be part of the equation.


Expanding diplomacy significantly is not going to be something we can do quickly. I agree that there are some great things we can do long term to improve diplomatic options, but right now I think rebalancing the default behavior for each AI race/government combo is the best way to go.


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Post #: 54
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 2:02:03 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Julyan
1. Like folk above said the renaming of ships when you upgrade them is annoying. If this happens because a design of particular name already exists then a lesson from SotS school of ship naming might be in order: there if you tried to name a ship into one that already exists, the game automatically puts Mk2 at the end (or Mk3, Mk4 etc). This allows you to have several designs of same class but they retain their own names and the Mk-marking makes it easy to recognize which generation the ship is.
2. Make retrofitting a part of the automatic AI so when I make a new escort of frigate design the ships under AI control automatically go have their refit at some point for example when they return for refueling.


I generally agree with these points.

I'd like to request that everyone with a request please make sure to put it in the master wish list as well. That's the only thread where I can guarantee we will consider every request.


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Post #: 55
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 2:04:03 PM   
RViener

 

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Erik, How about adding more depth to the diplomacy options for negotiations between empires?
Bob Viener

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Post #: 56
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 2:04:18 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Impact1986
how about adding more different shipclasses? like a really big ship called worldship, with unlimited size, but depending on the planet its built on.
and more weapon classes, instead of having bombs and torpedoes in one class, make an own class for bombs against planets (also with different warheads, nuclear, chemical, biological... etc) and then put torpedoes in their own class. that way ships which get upgraded wont automaticly have bombs instead of torpedoes. it would also be good if you could have massdrivers...


You're into expansion territory.

quote:

now that i think of. how about custom massdrivers? the only thing you improve is the miniaturization, so at the beginning with low tech, you will have massdrivers like todays cannons and firearms, with a chemical propellant. those weapons have larger range or are more damaging, depending on factors like size of the mass they accelerate. you can build one giant cannon on a frigate, up to the maximum size limit of the current shipyards, but will be less accurate and cost large amount of resources. the ships also have to carry the ammunition, so the will be of limited use.


Yes, you really are into expansion territory...

These are things that go a bit beyond modding as well, but we are planning to make the game more moddable. As I said above, please also put your suggestions in the master wish list to make sure we have them for reference when we're done with bug squashing and balance tweaks.

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Post #: 57
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 2:05:15 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Drone_Fragger
Any chance that a "Patrol system" order can be added for fleets? Where the fleet will split up and evenly distribute itself around colonies and bases in the system, and then attempt to converge on any enemies that enter the system? Becuase currently all you can order a fleet to do defence wise is to patrol a single colony or base which is kinda useless since it's possible enemies will just ignore that planet/base and attack an undefended one.


Yes, I'd like to see this too. Won't be in this update though.

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(in reply to Drone_Fragger)
Post #: 58
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 2:06:56 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lancer
With regard to rebalancing of resources would it be possible to instead provide a game start option where the player decides on the frequency of resources in the galaxy. Eg. low - normal - abundant?


Yes, one of the longer term plans is to allow the player to choose planet and resource density to a degree.

Regards,

- Erik

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Post #: 59
RE: Latest Update Plans - 4/13/2010 2:35:26 PM   
sbach2o

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
quote:

Disregarding of manual orders already happens - around bases as far as I have seen. Recent event: A smaller fleet of mine was engaging an enemy base while being intercepted by enemy fleet. The fleet was the bigger threat to me, so I manually ordered my ships to engange and gang up on enemy ships. After a short while, most or all of my fleet snapped back to engage the base. Me fuming!


Was the base firing at you?


(Al)Most certainly. It may be that not all of the affected ships were in actual range of the base, but I wouldn't swear an oath on this. I guess ships targeted by an enemy prioritize this enemy above the ordered target?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
quote:

What Eric probably means, and is another 'me fuming' inducing occurence, is when the current target of a group of ships is destroyed, this group of ships goes idle for a (more or less long) time while combat is raging all around, often within weapons range. This is just so awful. And it doesn't seem to hit the AI empire's fleets as much or at all.


Yes, that's the main focus of that improvement. The AI keeps its fleets automated, which is why you don't see it happening with them. If you use "a" to automate the ships in your fleet at the end of a manually targeted combat this will also work for you until we finish this update.



I had already picked this tip up, although it turns out to be a bit finicky. It is still the preferable way, if you decide to leave a battle alone for a while or just let it run its course without more intervention, I guess. Yet, I manage to forget it most of the time.

Another thing that I was picking up late was that
(a) you can group-select ships by dragging a selection rectangle over them
(b) you can actually issue order to such a group.

Here the interface is a bit non-intuitive, because there is no default-command indicated when hovering the mouse over potential targets. It took me very long to realize that there is a right-click menu at all for warships. There is some way to override the default command to get at the right-click menu, was it keeping the shift-key pressed while hovering the mouse?

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 60
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