Interesting
Posts: 120
Joined: 4/4/2010
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Ok. Erik, Eliot, whoever read. Ive put some time and effort into trying to explain what the economy problem is, where it lies and what we could do to fix it. I know you guys already got the message before and are already planning on fixing all this issues. This post might add to it.
Ive said in other topics, the main revenue generation for players is colonies.
Colony type, size, development level and population.
The revenue formula, based on population (limited by type of colony and size) times development level (plus any ruins or government/racial bonus), fractioned taxes and corruption is what ends up in the players pocket
The current problem is: the players started getting a lot of money from that too fast.
I dont see a problem with the formula itself.
The problem I see is that:
Population grows too fast. (wich is the main factor of the revenue, rather than development level)
Development level multiplies the revenue from lets say 1 to 199 (Ive seen it once), but then population multiplies it from 1 to over 30000M. See? The population weight on the formula is what drives the revenue up.
Its not so much of a problem to get 10 sources of luxuries nearby and the freighters AI in their safe routes.
Even if the AI sucks at doing the job of keeping all colonies fed up with 10 luxuries at all times non stop, rather than just trying to divide all strategic resources you have just for the sake of doing it, even when those resources are not needed. But, since we have no say over what the private freighters do and how they do it and whatever way we design it ends up being wasted by the AI behavior, its ok. It doesnt affect the economy nearly as much as:
Population development. This is where the money is at. If players do everything at their aim to just focus on increasing the population as fast as possible, GDP revenue wich is heavily tied to it, will grow exponentially.
For example, having a good reputation, building specifically designed small spaceports just to get the recreation and medical bonuses (the most simple ones increase reputation by 14 and doesnt cost much maintenance to maintain).
The way I see it, maintenance of everything scales differently from population/development.
Development increases slow, and depends on player built mines on luxury resources and freighters, and it has a cap, reachable very fast. I never analised how fast it took to get development level to 100, but as I said, its not as important as population.
Both multiply each other, its just that one outweight the other by over a hundred times.
And back to population.
What I noticed is that having low taxes, add huge bonuses to population growth.
To the point where as soon as I colonize a planet, I can get away with the following strategy: survive with the taxes gathered from only one colony, while all the other colonies have 0 taxes, just working on multiplying its population. After those colonies reach a X ammount of population, I build a smallport there, because its the point where the maintenance cost of tjat small starport is lower than the benefit of having the reputation bonuses (Wich will directly affect population growth, making it grow faster for that maintenance cost)
If there isnt any war going on during this time, wich even on the "Chaotic" it wont, because every AI will still be growing, or maybe the player didnt even found that AI yet. And even if the player did found that AI, he can manage that period long enough untill his colonies have enough population and development for him to build military ships for that.
In other games, players can be rushed, or players have to make a choice regarding attacking early or focusing on economy. In Distant Worlds such choice is rigged. Its foolish not to focus on getting more population and development for his colonies, and of course, more colonies itself, the very core of the revenue.
Paying pirates 5K for the location of a Colony? Cheap, best investment ever.
Making explorers and sending them manually all around to find colonizable planets.
The thing is that increasing development level is too easy and happens too fast.
But increasing population is an even worse unbalance, because population growth affects revenue more and it grows too fast.
A colony with 10M, can get up to a hundred times that, very fast. Multiply its revenue by a hundred times, think about that.
Its not the ammount of colonizable planets/moons in the galaxy. Even if you cut it to 1/3, its not the ammount of colonies that make the difference. Players just need need two or three colonies with max population and high development to get more money than they will ever need. Like 333K GDP each one of his three colonies.
Also, at a certain time, players are able to tax colonies more and more.
I have colonies being taxed at over 40%, some at 50% and they still have over 16 reputation (the yellow smile face). This is where the problem lies.
Colonies population, development grow too fast. They accept being taxed by too much.
How I would fix it?
Reduce the positive bonuses for 0 tax. Give almost none bonus for 0 tax. Make it so the decision of "taxing it for the colonie revenue versus not taxing for faster growth" is actually a balanced one. Right now its a no brainer.
Make it so at 0 taxes people get just 5 plus reputation, instead of 50-70. While taxing it for 10% will not give or take any reputation, this way, people have something to gain from 10%, even if its just 10% out of xxM population with 50 development.
Also, even if the player choose not to tax its colonies and have good reputation from killing pirates (wich is almost negligible, and temporary) or good reputation from starport bonuses, populations shouldNT grow by leaps and bounds.
You see, populations increasing over than 100% by every tick. With all the positive bonuses, populations shouldNT grow more than 25% or so. You might think that % is too low, but dont forget its a chain effect, every tick is 25% over 125%, and the next time, its 156,25, then 25% of that is 195,31 and so on. Even at 25% it will grow very fast. But the idea is that it doesnt grow 25% each time, but less than that, because people will actually tax their colonies to gain little revenue, rather than not tax them to gain huge boost population growth (wich will be balanced).
Another thing that could be balanced, is the maximum manageable tax % one could get from high end colonies with max population and max development.
If we keep the current numbers: like 30000M population times 100 development = revenue times % of taxes less % of corruption, then we need to lower the taxes.
Right now, taxing colonies for 50%, out of their fat 300-400K GDP, breaks the game. Because players can afford everything if each colony gives them that money. In all my games I never needed spent more than 100k in Maintenance myself, and thats for all everything I have and just ONE colony can pay for everything. Now think that I have many colonies generating similar revenues. Beyond broken.
But, if at 15% taxes population started complaining a lot, instead of 45%... then instead of having one good colony to pay for everything players would need 3. Off course players would be able to increase taxes to 40%, but then it would mean certain break out, instead of perfectly manageable +16 reputation like it is now.
If we lower how fast population grows, how fast development grows and how much players can tax those colonies, we can get to a point where it would take a long time for the player to reach "max population in a colony", playing many years with tightly counted budget. But eventually, they still would reach the point where 10 Colonies would be overboard and break the game, as 2-3 colonies break the game now.
So another proposition, would be to halve the maximum population. Instead of a 30K size Colonial planet holding 30000M population, make it hold just 10000 at maximum. This is also another way of fixing the problem.
Then, instead of needing 10 colonies, players would need 30 colonies to get to that point where money is not an issue.
Fixing economy, is a matter of "slowing its growth" (right now its too fast) and capping its maximum potential (right now one colony at the cap population/development gives too much revenue).
The free trade agreement, or getting % of subjugated alien races, income from building private ships etc is negligible. Right now colonies tax answer for 99% of the player revenue. This is also a problem.
We have to beef up the other ways of acquiring revenue, besides colonies. Its too much obsessive compulsive: start the game imediatly start building explorers, colony ships, buying locations of independent colonies. Why is it a problem? Because 99% of the revenue depends on it. Without it you dont do nothing. Players have to colonize.
Maybe killing pirates and space creatures give monetary rewards/bounty. So if you nerf the "how fast" aspect of colony revenue, the beggining could be too harsh, but then it could be countered with these other methods (that wouldnt grow exponentially).
I always felt pissed of that killing space creatures wielded no rewards and killing pirates gave temporary/negligible reputation boosts. Make them give more rewards, from 5-25k a kill. A pirate base, could pay 15k. A big space creature could pay 25K. This would be fun and balanced. Its not someone can go on and kill a those huge space creatures without some sort of investment as well. It would provide a good reason to have a military in the beggining, instead of just arming everyone by design.
I fear that instead of nerfing the total ammount of colonizable planets, we should fix how fast they generate revenue through population growth (main factor) and how fast and how many luxuries resources are needed to increase the development level.
I dont want to have just one Colonizable planet per sector in version 1.04. I dont think thats the right way to do it, if thats the case. Based on the reasons stated above, it wouldnt fix it.
< Message edited by Interesting -- 4/19/2010 5:12:14 AM >
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Economy tweaks for 1.04 - 
. I know someone said we had to pay for mining maintenance costs, so maybe I assumed this was for the private ships as well.
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