Decisive battles on the east front???

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Across the Dnepr - Second Edition >> Decisive battles on the east front???

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Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/15/2010 4:33:41 PM

Hexagon

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Well, last days return to Kharkov game (nothing serious) and when open the kharkov v1.20 notes see this title to call the Kharkov game and AtD2... this means that are other titles in the way??? a nother "refried" like AtD2 covering Korsun??? or a new scen???

Another question, you talk about release as free scenarios old scens from BiI... are BiN included??? thanks.

Post #: 1

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/15/2010 4:58:44 PM

Korzun

Posts: 126
Joined: 11/18/2005
From: Frankfurt, Germany
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I would love to see a Korsun Pocket Second Edition...

(in reply to Hexagon)

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RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/15/2010 5:09:45 PM

EisenHammer

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Yeah... Korsun Pocket second edition would be nice.

(in reply to Korzun)

Post #: 3

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/15/2010 6:59:00 PM

Hexagon

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Ummm i prefer Bagration44 or another Barbarrossa scen for example covering the advance in the south front or in the north front

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Post #: 4

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/15/2010 7:34:17 PM

jhdeerslayer

Posts: 1194
Joined: 5/25/2002
From: Michigan
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

Ummm i prefer Bagration44 or another Barbarrossa scen for example covering the advance in the south front or in the north front

Yea or summer of 42 in the south to Stalingrad. More choices than SSG has time for probably.

_____________________________

(in reply to Hexagon)

Post #: 5

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/15/2010 11:00:09 PM

hank

Posts: 623
Joined: 8/24/2003
From: west tn
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Korsun

I would love to see a Korsun Pocket Second Edition...

Ditto ... My first SSG game was KP. It was a great package. You got more than one Korsun Pocket scenario plus the TAO scenario. I really found a great value.

I hope the great titles from SSG will make it to the new K:DotD engine. Korsun Pocket, The Ardennes Offensive and Normandy would be wonderful. I did not buy BiI so I can't say anything about those scenarios EXCEPT Husky which I'm playing through now with the 1.20 patch. Its a good scenario ... but then SSG has had many good battles I've never played.

... I would also like to see the Battlefront scenarios not get lost in the shuffle ... Market Garden and Gazalla are great battles.

User scenarios ... Kursk, Prokhorovkha, Rommel Master of Battle sce's (Patton and Kalasch) ... etc etc ... all would be great in the K:DotD engine

OH, did I mention my AtD2 disk came in the mail today ... what a great day it is !!!!!

(in reply to Korzun)

Post #: 6

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/16/2010 6:41:44 PM

Korzun

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From: Frankfurt, Germany
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KP would most probably be less work than making a new scenario like the Soviet summer offensive in June 1944. That's why I would go for this one!

(in reply to hank)

Post #: 7

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/16/2010 8:51:39 PM

Tzar007

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From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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In their policy statement inside the patch notes, SSG mentions that they will be updating previous games, especially Battles in Italy (we already got Husky as a freebie with this release, Salerno and Anzio will be coming as free releases). Unfortunately, it says that games that were not created at the 4-km per hex standard are not candidates for the update process. Korsun Pocket had a scale of 3-km per hex, so we're out of luck on this one. But there are still tons of Eastern front battles to go over.

Although it's Western front, I still would like to get Battles in Normandy ported to the new system.

(in reply to Korzun)

Post #: 8

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/16/2010 9:07:23 PM

L�tzow

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From: Germany
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I'm not so eager for a free updated BiI. Would rather pay $50,- for another East Front battle instead.

(in reply to Tzar007)

Post #: 9

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/17/2010 8:08:49 AM

Noypi53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tzar007

........

Although it's Western front, I still would like to get Battles in Normandy ported to the new system.

Count me in as well!!

Here's my wish list:

- Conversion of BII scenarios
- Operation Typhoon
- Conversion of BIN scenarios
- Battles of Army Group Center scenarios (1940-41)
- Updated Ardennes Offensive (does it fit the 4km-scale?)

(in reply to Tzar007)

Post #: 10

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/18/2010 2:03:45 PM

hank

Posts: 623
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From: west tn
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DB on the Eastern Front
Well, I did not realize KP was a 3 Km/hex scale.� So, here's my one and only plea for a remake of KP:

1. Its arguably one of the most heroic battles of the eastern front;� the desparate effort to save one's comrads from sure death.� The German army sent its best divisions at the time to save a pocket of fellow warriors (in both muddy and blizzard conditions).

2. Its probably the least reported battle of the war in Europe.� From what I know (reading about WWII since the late 60's on), it was the most unknown battle of the war.� Until recently the book "Hell's Gate" was the only book I know of written about the battle and it had little circulation and was very hard to get.� Only after the fall of the iron curtain and the opening up of Soviet military�accounts of the Great War did the world read of the desparation of that battle.

3. The date of battle results in the use of the late war weapons used by both sides.� (Tigers, Panthers, T34's, SU's etc etc)

4. The OOB research is done.� Only some refinement should be needed.

5. So, all I can see is reworking the map to fit the 4 Km/Hex scale.� (but what do I know, I haven't tried building a scenario since BiN days)

6. Besides HPS's Korsun 44, the SSG game is the only game that models this battle.� (TOAW has one scenario I'm aware of and thats it)

So there's my request.� I can live without it but I had to speak my mind.

While I'm here, can the K:DotD engine and scale accomodate either 2 turns or 3 turns per day?� Having a time scale so night can be modelled with limited movement�and fatigue factors�would be nice.� I think one user scenario from the BiN days had that aspect modelled.�

enjoying AtD2

< Message edited by hank -- 4/18/2010 2:04:16 PM >

(in reply to Noypi53)

Post #: 11

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/18/2010 2:55:06 PM

Ron

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While I enjoyed Korsun Pocket initially, I'm defintely no fan of a remake; I would much rather see TAO redone. Regards battles on the Eastern Front, something from Bagration 44 or even more ideally the Third Kharkov Battle would be my preference.

(in reply to hank)

Post #: 12

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/18/2010 8:51:31 PM

Tzar007

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From: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hank

DB on the Eastern Front
Well, I did not realize KP was a 3 Km/hex scale.� So, here's my one and only plea for a remake of KP (...)

Well put Hank. The Korsun battle is probably my favorite battle of the Eastern front. It is fun and challenging to play on both sides. One of the last battles of the East during which the Wehrmacht and Red Army were still on equal terms (well, almost). After Korsun, it's mostly downhill for the Germans.

(in reply to hank)

Post #: 13

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/19/2010 5:36:07 AM

jeffreysutro@jeffreysutro.com

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If I were to confined to the Eastern Front battles I think one good idea would be the Battle of Moscow, perhaps with a link to Across the Dnepr so both games could be played sequentially (as a nice bonus for those who own Across the Dnepr). There is the possibllity of several good sub scenerios that could be included. Perhaps they could also include a "Guderian's wet dream" scenerio where the the attack on Smolensk is delayed and Army Group Center pushes on toward Moscow in July or August.

Even better would be Stalingrad. There would be plenty of possible sub scenerios, such as the initial German offensive, the battle for the city, the Soviet encirclement, and the attempted German relief. The Areas of Operation system would work very well to simulate Hitler's no retreat orders, or to explore what might have happened without such an order. It would also give the opportunity to use the ability of the Kharkov system to simulate smaller unit battles by portraying the battle for the city at (for example) company scale. I am aware that SSG is reluctant to utilize the ability of the system to handle smaller scale battles, since they feel it would require some modification to the system to implement them properly. I don't know how much work it would require, but I think it is a shame to not utilize the ability of the Kharkov engine to handle battles of different scales.

If we include the Western Front I would vote for a remake of the Ardennes Offensive, or of Battles in Normandy. As others have suggested, some of that stuff might be included as additional "bonus scenerios" to make Kharkov even more enticing (since it is, after all, the "entry drug " for the system). The Battle of France in 1940 might also be interesting, perhaps with a fantasy "Sealion" scenerio included. If SSG is willing to use a smaller scale the North African Campaigns (including Libya and Tunsia) would be interesting

< Message edited by jeffreys -- 4/19/2010 5:38:09 AM >

_____________________________

All My Best,

Jeff Sutro

(in reply to Tzar007)

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RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/19/2010 8:41:04 AM

Noakesy

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Joined: 5/26/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hank - Well, I did not realize KP was a 3 Km/hex scale.� So, here's my one and only plea for a remake of KP:

I've put a few posts up in the past to beg that they re-work KP. My reasoning (in addition to all your excellent points) is that the AOs would work brilliantly to stop the German player stuffing all his troops from the South into two walls (east and west) to stop the Ivans building the pocket. It's a fair tactic in the DBWWII game, and virtually everyone I have played against does the same thing, but in most instances it means the pocket is never formed.

(in reply to hank)

Post #: 15

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/19/2010 9:49:53 AM

Arckon

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I would like to see SSG alternate between a new scenario and remake. Started with new in Kharkov then remake of Across the Depner, would prefer to see new battle next followed by another remake. Also would much rather see Battles of Normandy remade before Korsuns Pocket, but I reckon I have no inkling of the amount of work that would be required to remake that with all the different AO's etc.

(in reply to Noakesy)

Post #: 16

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/19/2010 2:18:03 PM

hank

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I can ditto Arckon's comments. Alternating new/old would be great. I can also appreciate doing TAO before KP; I would definitely like to play TAO with the new engine. And I ditto jeffreys desire to see a Moscow scenario too.

I know these are all hopes and dreams but now that SSG has settled on the K:DotD engine as the engine for the future, I would hope over the next couple of years we see at least 2 or 3 new stock scenarios rebuilt (key words: "at least"); which could lead to more income for SSG.

Oh, did I mention I'm having a freakin' blast playing AtD2 ?

(in reply to Arckon)

Post #: 17

RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/19/2010 5:52:57 PM

ComradeP

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Scale isn't really a problem, as long as you fit the units and the map to the scale. If SSG focusses mostly on 4km/hex scenarios, that doesn't mean someone else won't be working on scenarios with different scales.

(in reply to hank)

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RE: Decisive battles on the east front??? - 4/20/2010 1:13:35 AM

Fred98

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From: Wollondilly, Sydney
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

Scale isn't really a problem, as long as you fit the units and the map to the scale.

I agree with that.

If a developer says the counters represent a company, then they do. if he says they represent a battallion they do.

All you need to adjust is the amount of artillery support.

-

(in reply to ComradeP)

Post #: 19