RE: Making Money in 1.04

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Distant Worlds 1 Series >> RE: Making Money in 1.04

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RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/22/2010 1:39:27 PM

jscott991

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SiempreCiego

@ Jscott

just looking at the images you supplied. I noticed that of your 29 colonies you only have 11 spaceports in total. Build a small space port at every colony.
colonies with no space port can only have one private ship docked at a time. Alos fewer space ports mean that private ship contruction is substantially slower.
If you build a small spaceport at each colony you should see a substantial dip in revenue at first, but it will stimulate demand for certain resources, ship production and general commerce.

The empire in my screen shots was fully automated. If there are not enough spaceports, it is because the AI chose not to build them.

(in reply to SiempreCiego)

Post #: 91

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/22/2010 1:53:34 PM

Gertjan

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quote:

However, the AI can't micromanage it, so if the AI ends up suffering much more, the game will actually become easier, because AIs are generally much worse at coping with complex resource-scarcity management problems than humans are. If cash is easy to get, the human player may get disgustingly rich easily, but the AI will also be rich enough to handle itself.

I am also worried about this.

(in reply to jscott991)

Post #: 92

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/22/2010 3:04:58 PM

SiempreCiego

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really????

you literally did nothing?

that is interesting. I wonder if its due to the government selection? maybe the AI automates as if the gov is democracy/republic?

Erik is that possible?

(in reply to jscott991)

Post #: 93

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/22/2010 3:20:56 PM

jscott991

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SiempreCiego

really????

you literally did nothing?

that is interesting. I wonder if its due to the government selection? maybe the AI automates as if the gov is democracy/republic?

Erik is that possible?

You can set the AI to control your empire at all levels under options (it's called something like ruling in absence).

As for why this happened, it's because the AI has certain priorities that don't seem to work that well under 1.04's harsher economic model.

(in reply to SiempreCiego)

Post #: 94

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 12:24:21 AM

taltamir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sliverine

i think the most important thing here is to limit your expansion. You mostly start out with one pretty developed world along with 3 other worlds in the same system as you that you can immediately colonize. You should then look to getting a constant supply of 4 (or more) luxury goods (of which 2 should be already in your starting system) to further your development. If im not wrong i read somewhere that when worlds have a supply of more then 4 luxury goods they start to develop. Fully developing worlds is the important thing here. Its better to have 4 fully developed worlds bringing you loads of income rather then 39 poorly developed ones fighting for their share of development essential luxury goods and with that one developed world being your sole source of income (i.e. your capital). Therefore, in a nutshell, expand slowly but surely!

that is prioritizing, not limiting... I still expand the same as before... I build as many ships as I can afford as fast as possible... I just send them to a planet with 1 luxury good over a planet with 5 ship building goods.
Because ship building goods is useless for the economy AND will be acquired easily anyways (via being on planets with luxury goods, or via mining)

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Post #: 95

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 1:56:11 AM

Warspite3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jscott991

The economic changes are probably here to stay, so while bugs might be ironed out in 1.04, the core of the patch, I think, is set.

With that being said and acknowledging that I'm an inexperienced player, I find the game a touch too challenging at the moment and need to know more about how I'm supposed to be making money. I started 3 1.04 games last night and each one kind of "crapped out"; I was bankrupt within 5 years.

So, how do you make money? How much micromanaging is really necessary? (Hopefully, not much. I would hate for 1.04 to have changed the economic system to make it harder for micromanagers and now it requires the micromanaging that the game touts is unnecessary.)

My strategy in 1.03 (and so far in 1.04) is to colonize pretty much every world I find, with particular attention to alien populations (which I set to rare). I try to focus my construction ships on resources with either empire or galactic priority, but I'm not all that familiar with how resources actually relate to making money. My construction ships are on auto. My ship construction is on suggest. I usually deny the suggestions. My fleet is quite small; construction ships actually take up far more maintenance than anything else.

I've noticed my resort and shipyard income fluctuates wildly. I assume that's intentional. My taxes are set to auto, and actually stay pretty steady.

I turn pirates off and monsters to the lowest setting. I play with few alien empires and put them all normal or distant.

So, what am I doing wrong? How do you set up a successful economy in the beginning of the game?

So you want to be rich? No? How about a multi-millionair king of the stars? Yes? Ok read this thread...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2438984

No seriously, it seems it is possibly to get into trouble as the game goes on relying on this to make you money. Although I done this one game pretty effectively, not sure how well it will work when I start a new game. Guess I will find out. In the end, do keep selling techs in mind to make some money if you are strapped but best if you have a strong economy to start with.

< Message edited by Warspite3 -- 4/23/2010 2:04:04 AM >

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(in reply to jscott991)

Post #: 96

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 6:11:26 AM

ceyan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jscott991

If this is true and any colony that is making even 1k in revenue is "netting" money, then I am completely flabbergasted why everyone in this thread is railing against rapid expansion.

There has to be a way that colonies that say they are producing tax revenue aren't actually "netting" revenue. That way is pretty simple: colonies have troops, freighters, starports, and patrol ships associated with them. The cost of troops, starports, and freighters are directly associated with the colony. Plus are the costs of resources mined on the planet factored into its revenue cost in the colony screen? I don't think so, but I'm not sure.

So the colony screen is telling you next to nothing except tax revenue. A heck of a lot more goes into whether a colony is profitable and anything resource-related is pretty cleverly hidden from the players view.

I was wondering where you got the idea that Colonies cost something. Colonies have troops on them, but the troops are completely mobile, so they aren't associated with a colony. Freighters are completely independent from colonies, if a "colony" has one its simply because they're waiting in orbit for a job/mission. Starports may exist in line with a colony, but they're by no means required to do so, so they aren't directly tied to a colony. And resource revenue is generated (as far as I understand) via direct trade, unless there is some abstract mechanism by which a colony sells its goods without having to transport them (in which case I'm not aware of it). Worse still is the fact that all the stuff you mentioned has separate individual expense lines in the Empire Summary page, so I'm not exactly sure how in the world you go the idea that they're tied to a colonies prosperity.

So while you may have a point that it could be possible to get more granular about expenses, you're barking up the wrong tree on this issue. Colonies are the easiest thing in the game to determine how much money they're making.

Edit:
I suppose, to put it in more direct (and IMO better) wording, you're looking for a breakdown of total expenses at lower levels. Maybe instead of Empire wide, have the ability to say System X is making Y but costing Z between all resources within it. But then again, how would you factor in the profit from trade into that equation? That's always been my biggest question with the economy, trying to associate my trade dollars with something.

< Message edited by ceyan -- 4/23/2010 6:14:52 AM >

(in reply to jscott991)

Post #: 97

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 6:14:38 AM

taltamir

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if anything, rapid colony building can help offset the costly and useless mining bases the AI builds :P

But while extra colonies don't have anything to do with freighters, they have everything to do with the construction of space ports... which are costly to maintain. (and happen automatically if you enabled it)

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Post #: 98

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 8:55:08 AM

Resan

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What I would like, is a way to see how much of a resource my empire are currently using. As far as I understande, the demand number is unfiled demand. This doesn't really tell me if my luxury resource productioncan cope with another colony or not. Or if I'm mining just enough steel or way to much, I only see it when I'm mining too little.

(in reply to taltamir)

Post #: 99

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 8:58:37 AM

taltamir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Resan

What I would like, is a way to see how much of a resource my empire are currently using. As far as I understande, the demand number is unfiled demand. This doesn't really tell me if my luxury resource productioncan cope with another colony or not. Or if I'm mining just enough steel or way to much, I only see it when I'm mining too little.

go to expansion planner, it gives you exact amounts.

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(in reply to Resan)

Post #: 100

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 9:43:42 AM

Pocus

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no, it gives you the stocks and unmatched demands, not the average usage over time and average production over tim.

+1 as Resan, this would be needed.Right now I have to remember if the stock is falling over time or not.

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(in reply to taltamir)

Post #: 101

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 10:20:20 AM

taltamir

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I see now. yes that would be useful.

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I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman.

(in reply to Pocus)

Post #: 102

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 1:26:18 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
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From: Vermont, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus
no, it gives you the stocks and unmatched demands, not the average usage over time and average production over tim.
+1 as Resan, this would be needed.Right now I have to remember if the stock is falling over time or not.

Adding in the total/average demand is on our list, FYI.

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(in reply to Pocus)

Post #: 103

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 2:30:00 PM

Gertjan

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Good!

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 104

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 2:30:35 PM

Gertjan

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But please don't turn the game into a spreadsheet game by adding all kinds of statistics.

(in reply to Gertjan)

Post #: 105

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 3:06:48 PM

Gargoil

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Joined: 1/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gertjan

But please don't turn the game into a spreadsheet game by adding all kinds of statistics.

I both agree and disagree with your statement. I do not want to have the game turn into something you play FROM A SPREADSHEET. But I disagree with your statement about NOT adding all kinds of statistics.

a) If you don't want to look at the stats, then don't.
b) how does having more that you can look at if you wish too harm the game?
c) I don't care how much detail they put into a game if I can't SEE that detail in some way. You might as well throw out all that detail and just roll some dice - I would not be able to see the difference if you don't give me some empirical data.

Edited for spelling.

< Message edited by Gargoil -- 4/23/2010 3:09:05 PM >

(in reply to Gertjan)

Post #: 106

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 5:00:40 PM

Sliverine

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Its not that one shouldnt expand fast. After all, expansion and more new colonies do give you more cash. Its just that whether you expand slowly or in a burst of colonization, you still gain a higher income, just that gain would be significantly decreased if u didnt prioritise your expansion i.e. 39 underdeveloped worlds might give 40k more income but 3 fully developed ones might give over 200k more

(in reply to Gargoil)

Post #: 107

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 5:15:48 PM

Fishman

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There is one interesting quirk that can result in economic crashes: Being TOO successful. If a commodity suffers a sudden crash in price as a result of you glutting the market in it, if you were depending on that commodity as your moneymaker, and it crashes from $100 a unit to $0.5, you can imagine what this does to your profit margin. I suspect this is the true cause of mining-base-related income crashes, as the player doesn't actually pay the upkeep on mining bases, PRIVATE does.

< Message edited by Fishman -- 4/23/2010 5:17:10 PM >

(in reply to Sliverine)

Post #: 108

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 5:31:17 PM

jscott991

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman

There is one interesting quirk that can result in economic crashes: Being TOO successful. If a commodity suffers a sudden crash in price as a result of you glutting the market in it, if you were depending on that commodity as your moneymaker, and it crashes from $100 a unit to $0.5, you can imagine what this does to your profit margin. I suspect this is the true cause of mining-base-related income crashes, as the player doesn't actually pay the upkeep on mining bases, PRIVATE does.

Of course this information is almost impossible to find or track.

(in reply to Fishman)

Post #: 109

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 6:10:12 PM

Sliverine

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yea i think the mining base's upkeep is privately paid too. If u notice a commerce component is required on all mining bases which means that trading is done when freighters come to pick up the resources i.e. they buy the resources from the base to sell at a port. Oh yea you know what they should add? They should add some sort of 'public advisor' who will update u as to the private sector's needs. But then again they will be adding in a total/average demand counter on your resources screen so i guess that solves pretty much most of the problems.

Plus im assuming that demand shows the civilian demand (not the military/state demand that arises from you spam building a 30 cap fleet ship). If you produce more then your populace demands, the excess goes into your stockpile which is then used for building non-civilian related craft such as your military and state owned ships. Therefore, when u use up your stockpile and STILL need resources, additional resources that are being brought in by freighters/mining vessels will automatically be rerouted to the construction of your state owned ships instead of fulfilling the private demand, which then causes your demand tab in your resources screen to show a positive value.

Im guessing that if you want to build state ships you have to check the stockpile to see if you have enough left in storage to build whatever u want to build and if you dont, i was hoping the devs could come up with a sort of warning that tells u when the total materials needed for a build order exceeds the current stockpile.

< Message edited by Sliverine -- 4/23/2010 6:12:46 PM >

(in reply to jscott991)

Post #: 110

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 6:29:20 PM

Resan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus
no, it gives you the stocks and unmatched demands, not the average usage over time and average production over tim.
+1 as Resan, this would be needed.Right now I have to remember if the stock is falling over time or not.

Adding in the total/average demand is on our list, FYI.

Nice

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 111

RE: Making Money in 1.04 - 4/23/2010 8:24:13 PM

Dadekster

Posts: 141
Joined: 4/18/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pocus
no, it gives you the stocks and unmatched demands, not the average usage over time and average production over tim.
+1 as Resan, this would be needed.Right now I have to remember if the stock is falling over time or not.

Adding in the total/average demand is on our list, FYI.

Outstanding.

I am in the camp of, I'd rather need/have the information and not need it versus I need/would like the information and I don't have it.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 112

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Slitherine

RE: Making Money in 1.04