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What gives ? - 4/23/2010 4:58:25 PM

n01487477

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I've been playing this game on and off since release ...

I get to the final game, almost all the planets are colonised and I'm fairly much 2:1 superior to all others. Not waged war against any until this time, everyone is my friend and want to hold my hand down the aisle ... so I check to see who is hated by all and then decide to go for it...

Soon after I'm hated by all, and in a war against all ... I can't negotiate a truce with all and even if I can with one or two, they soon go back on their word ...

So my empire suddenly splits in two as my colonies start revolting and there seems no way back but to bludgeon them all which as I take them one by one, gets split again ..

Is there something I'm really missing ? It's all a bit frustrating ...

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RE: What gives ? - 4/23/2010 5:12:54 PM

Fishman

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Are you getting Incite Revolution Spam Attacked? That's the most annoying thing in the game because it doesn't matter what your size is and there is no real defense against it, they will just spam that mission over and over until your entire empire shakes apart from having 50 revolutions in the span of 30 seconds.

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RE: What gives ? - 4/23/2010 5:21:21 PM

n01487477

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman

Are you getting Incite Revolution Spam Attacked? That's the most annoying thing in the game because it doesn't matter what your size is and there is no real defense against it, they will just spam that mission over and over until your entire empire shakes apart from having 50 revolutions in the span of 30 seconds.

In one game I did, but in the recent game no ... it just broke up because they didn't like that I'd been at war for a few weeks game time (mind you against the rest of the universe

) Tax was at 0%~5% for most of the bases that revolted.

It's not really the splitting that is getting me, rather that I can't go to war for any length of time with any nation, no matter how much they're despised without being led into an all out war with all ...

Maybe its because I prefer Democratic forms of government ... public opinion is fickle and so am I when it comes to something not being right in the state of Denmark ...

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RE: What gives ? - 4/23/2010 5:27:24 PM

n01487477

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Maybe I was a bit negative in the previous post, so if I can find some game tips that might help me ... please contribute.

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RE: What gives ? - 4/23/2010 5:34:24 PM

Astorax

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Well, apparently, for your "good" races with democratic govs etc, before going to war its a good idea to make sure everyones happy and then switch to a more war-oriented government. Warmonger and then switch back if you're so inclined.

As for everyone hating you, did whomever you attacked have a defensive pact with several other races?

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RE: What gives ? - 4/23/2010 5:44:20 PM

n01487477

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Astorax

Well, apparently, for your "good" races with democratic govs etc, before going to war its a good idea to make sure everyones happy and then switch to a more war-oriented government. Warmonger and then switch back if you're so inclined.

As for everyone hating you, did whomever you attacked have a defensive pact with several other races?

I swear in my last game, I attacked a race that was hated by all, there were no defence pacts (I'd say) and within the time my fleet jumped into the system and started to swat the enemy fleet nearly all my former friends and trade partners were up in arms and ready for a battle with little ol' me ... maybe it's because they are jealous of my power and expansion... maybe I should have waged sporadic war grabbing territory instead of using my pacifistic expansionist doctrine.

Thx, I'll definitely change Govts next time ... but (sarcastically) still not sure how the Western Democracies stayed fighting during WW1&2 with all that public pressure to stop

[edit] Still I realise they were being attacked not attacking others ... still war weariness seems a bit over the top especially when I'm winning

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 4/23/2010 5:57:37 PM >

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RE: What gives ? - 4/23/2010 5:59:05 PM

Sliverine

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as emperor of an empire spanning several star systems, i must say you have done a very poor job at diplomatic negotiations. What you should have done is, paid pirates to attack one empire, then pay one empire to declare war on the other empire, then get the last empire to pay you for a protectorate.

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RE: What gives ? - 4/23/2010 6:59:07 PM

Gargoil

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sliverine

as emperor of an empire spanning several star systems, i must say you have done a very poor job at diplomatic negotiations. What you should have done is, paid pirates to attack one empire, then pay one empire to declare war on the other empire, then get the last empire to pay you for a protectorate.

LOL. I love it.

I have this Roleplaying thing in games like this. I play a democracy - and will do my utmost to stay peaceful. But I do keep a significant and state-of-the-art Navy. I will pay pirates and do some general instigating with the Alien empire that is already unfriendly with me. Typically, they start it, and I end it, hehe.

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RE: What gives ? - 4/23/2010 8:25:18 PM

Fat_Harry

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Did you declare war before blasting them?

I've noticed that if you dont declare and just start shooting stuff up you reputation drops to evil pretty quick, and then everyone else hates you.

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RE: What gives ? - 4/23/2010 8:42:00 PM

Krelos

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Also apparently bombarding a planet will cause everyone of the same races on said planet to hate you. Given that this was late in the game, if you bombarded it's likely that any target planet had half the races in the galaxy on it.

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RE: What gives ? - 4/23/2010 9:38:56 PM

taltamir

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it is very important to manage your reputation.
You started a war likely they paid a few others to go to war with you. This lowered your reputation reducing the morale of your people on all planets.
Furthermore, your people's morale went down further for being at war at all
Furthermore it went down a LOT further for being at war with their race (creatures hate it when you are at war with an empire of their race).
Beyond that, by letting your reputation drop, your standing with other empires dropped, so they declare war on you.

Reload from before it happened, this time do the following.
1. Start killing pirates ASAP, especially their bases, that gives you good reputation.
2. Make free trade agreements, that builds up good will and keeps everyone from going to war with you.
3. Make a few defense pacts, HONOR THOSE! honoring a defensive pact gives you a lot of good reputation.
4. Avoid wars with races who are a major part of your empire. (and keep those as short as possible)
5. Be aware that war hurts a LOT if you are a democracy. a little less as a republic, less as monarchy, and so on.

Follow those guidelines and you will prevent civil war and the breakup of your empire and total war with the entire galaxy hating you...
Also, never nuke planets unless you are already at war with everyone.

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RE: What gives ? - 4/23/2010 10:14:56 PM

JosEPhII

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@taltamir
If this is what you "Have" to do then this game has effectively destroyed the 4th X (eXterminate) and is really just a 3X pauseable RTS.

And it has been my eXperience that when you Honor Mutual Defense Pacts the only place you rep goes up is With the AI/race you have the Pact. As for every other race/AI your rep goes down from Honoring the MDP with the 1st AI. Reason:they are generally adversely affected by your pact because a) it impacted their trade, b) it impacted some part of their citizenry ("you're at war with my species") c) we generally dislike you anyway but didn't want to say it to your face, or d) it's a game mechanic that when you get large everyone turns on you in any way possible.

@n01487477
What was your Victory settings? Were you playing Sandbox? If you were playing Sandbox then this again reveals that this game is weak on the last X. If you had set some victory %'s, as your conditions of victory, how close were you to achieving them?

JosEPh

< Message edited by JosEPh_II -- 4/23/2010 10:18:55 PM >

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RE: What gives ? - 4/23/2010 11:19:26 PM

taltamir

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There is another option... play a race that is warlike... warlike races don't care at all about your reputation, and have no war weariness...
And start the game with a more strict form of government... starting out as a monarchy or dictatorship helps too...

Democracies, republics, and hippie races, despite their bonuses, are simply not suitable for war.

but I agree that some tweaking of the balance is still necessary...
for example, dictatorships should have planets benefit from troops somehow (in terms of suppressing rebellions that is), etc

< Message edited by taltamir -- 4/23/2010 11:25:02 PM >

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RE: What gives ? - 4/24/2010 2:22:50 AM

n01487477

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Joined: 2/21/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sliverine

as emperor of an empire spanning several star systems, i must say you have done a very poor job at diplomatic negotiations. What you should have done is, paid pirates to attack one empire, then pay one empire to declare war on the other empire, then get the last empire to pay you for a protectorate.

Nice advice very Machiavellian ... but all the pirates were wiped out (by me) & hadn't respawned as almost every system was occupied.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fat_Harry

Did you declare war before blasting them?

I've noticed that if you dont declare and just start shooting stuff up you reputation drops to evil pretty quick, and then everyone else hates you.

Yep, I did, I didn't want to "awake the sleeping giant"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Krelos

Also apparently bombarding a planet will cause everyone of the same races on said planet to hate you. Given that this was late in the game, if you bombarded it's likely that any target planet had half the races in the galaxy on it.

Can't recall bombarding, but the algorithms for picking up troops from transports needs some work and frustrates me ...

@taltamar
Thanks for the advice ... still 1,2 & 4 were already ticked. Defence pacts which drag me into war as a democracy end up with nasty results ... but I take what you're saying thx.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JosEPh_II

@taltamir
If this is what you "Have" to do then this game has effectively destroyed the 4th X (eXterminate) and is really just a 3X pauseable RTS.

And it has been my eXperience that when you Honor Mutual Defense Pacts the only place you rep goes up is With the AI/race you have the Pact. As for every other race/AI your rep goes down from Honoring the MDP with the 1st AI. Reason:they are generally adversely affected by your pact because a) it impacted their trade, b) it impacted some part of their citizenry ("you're at war with my species") c) we generally dislike you anyway but didn't want to say it to your face, or d) it's a game mechanic that when you get large everyone turns on you in any way possible.

@n01487477
What was your Victory settings? Were you playing Sandbox? If you were playing Sandbox then this again reveals that this game is weak on the last X. If you had set some victory %'s, as your conditions of victory, how close were you to achieving them?

JosEPh

Victory settings were sandboxed & although I say so with a heavy heart, it seems that eXterminate really does need some tweaks ...

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RE: What gives ? - 4/24/2010 2:25:46 AM

taltamir

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quote:

Can't recall bombarding, but the algorithms for picking up troops from transports needs some work and frustrates me ...

@taltamar
Thanks for the advice ... still 1,2 & 4 were already ticked. Defence pacts which drag me into war as a democracy end up with nasty results ... but I take what you're saying thx.

thats where you game the system... honor the defensive pact, then immediately end the war...
It feels like cheating though :(

< Message edited by taltamir -- 4/24/2010 2:26:11 AM >

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RE: What gives ? - 4/24/2010 2:29:44 AM

Anthropoid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JosEPh_II

@taltamir
If this is what you "Have" to do then this game has effectively destroyed the 4th X (eXterminate) and is really just a 3X pauseable RTS.

And it has been my eXperience that when you Honor Mutual Defense Pacts the only place you rep goes up is With the AI/race you have the Pact. As for every other race/AI your rep goes down from Honoring the MDP with the 1st AI. Reason:they are generally adversely affected by your pact because a) it impacted their trade, b) it impacted some part of their citizenry ("you're at war with my species") c) we generally dislike you anyway but didn't want to say it to your face, or d) it's a game mechanic that when you get large everyone turns on you in any way possible.

@n01487477
What was your Victory settings? Were you playing Sandbox? If you were playing Sandbox then this again reveals that this game is weak on the last X. If you had set some victory %'s, as your conditions of victory, how close were you to achieving them?

JosEPh

Now hold on just a minute!

Why is a game that is really hard to do the exterminate part necessarily "weak" because it is hard to do that part? No one has yet to conquer a whole planet, let alone a galaxy, so making it hard to do so would seem to be a strength wouldn't it?

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RE: What gives ? - 4/24/2010 2:34:23 AM

taltamir

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I am able to conquer planets and empires with my human democracy by following the steps I described...
If you don't follow those suggestions (or play a warlike race) you will not be conquering. you have to work on your public image (reputation) and morale of your citizens if you intend to be a conquering democracy (and yet it is possible to be one in this game).

I think the game should simply display a WARNING about democracies, republics, and certain races (or maybe any combination of government and race the result in war weariness being above a certain thresh-hold)... that states that those are for advanced players who understand morale and reputation or are simply not interesting on conquest. As it gives bonuses, but requires more careful management and has serious issues with rebellion if you try to play them as a hostile warlike conquerer.

< Message edited by taltamir -- 4/24/2010 2:39:53 AM >

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RE: What gives ? - 4/24/2010 3:55:40 AM

Fishman

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If you're playing a "nice" race without a bonus to war weariness, you probably should not take a government that has a penalty to war weariness, as this will make it impossible for you to colonize once a war has started, because new colonies with no infrastructure instantly become extremely angry with even the smallest thing (Armada had a "Frontier Spirit" boost to make new colonies stay intact, but DW doesn't and just has the new colony start at zero, which instantly riots), and instead take a meaner government to offset the fact that your guys are wusses.

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RE: What gives ? - 4/24/2010 10:38:19 AM

Fat_Harry

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It would also be nice if there was a way to supress the locals of an invaded planet (other than bombing them into small pieces beforehand

)

Taking into account war weariness, the "you are at war with our race", and the retention of the previous owner's tax rates (not an issue if you notice it in time i guess), it is not uncommon for newly conquered planets to rebel and become independant within a very short time frame.

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RE: What gives ? - 4/24/2010 1:57:57 PM

Krippakrull

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fat_Harry

It would also be nice if there was a way to supress the locals of an invaded planet (other than bombing them into small pieces beforehand )

Taking into account war weariness, the "you are at war with our race", and the retention of the previous owner's tax rates (not an issue if you notice it in time i guess), it is not uncommon for newly conquered planets to rebel and become independant within a very short time frame.

Does it help at all if you station troops on the planet? If it doesn't it really should, and the enemy and automation AI should learn it.

Also, maybe have some kind of way to combat war weariness with propaganda, and have closeness to the hostilities be a factor in determining actual unhappiness. Population in your core systems, hopefully far away from the combat, and kept fat from the overswarming luxuries shouldn't really give more than a small thought to the war unless it drags on for a long time.

< Message edited by Krippakrull -- 4/24/2010 2:02:19 PM >

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RE: What gives ? - 4/24/2010 7:08:58 PM

Astorax

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Krippakrull, no, stationing troops on a soon-to-be-rebelling planet works against you, weirdly enough. You put them there, the planet flips anyways and now they have troops because the troops all defect if the planet flips (as does the orbital defenses and local freighter population).

Propaganda ..hmm, what about some Agent mission against your own people? "Create a demagogue" mission or somesuch. Would only work on a per-planet basis and, if you got caught, wow the morale hit!

I like the distance being a factor in war weariness as well. Good suggestions.

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RE: What gives ? - 4/24/2010 10:47:58 PM

JosEPhII

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From: Cornfields of Western IL. USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL:� JosEPh_II

@taltamir
If this is what you "Have" to do then this game has effectively destroyed the 4th X (eXterminate) and is really just a 3X pauseable RTS.

And it has been my eXperience that when you Honor Mutual Defense Pacts the only place you rep goes up is With the AI/race you have

the Pact. As for every other race/AI your rep goes down from Honoring the MDP with the 1st AI. Reason:they are generally adversely

affected by your pact because a) it impacted their trade, b) it impacted some part of their citizenry ("you're at war with my species") c) we

generally dislike you anyway but didn't want to say it to your face, or d) it's a game mechanic that when you get large everyone turns on

you in any way possible.

@n01487477
What was your Victory settings? Were you playing Sandbox? If you were playing Sandbox then this again reveals that this game is

weak on the last X. If you had set some victory %'s, as your conditions of victory, how close were you to achieving them?

JosEPh

quote:

From Anthropoid
Now hold on just a minute!

Why is a game that is really hard to do the exterminate part necessarily "weak" because it is hard to do that part? No one has yet to

conquer a whole planet, let alone a galaxy, so making it hard to do so would seem to be a strength wouldn't it?

No. The game Overall may not be weak. But when toted as a 4X game and you can not use every Gov't form to conquer (a part of the

eXterminte X) the galaxy then the 4th X IS weak.

There is basically a very Limited Sole Survivor option. I should be able even with a Democracy to Conquer/ Control/ Rid the Galaxy of

"perceived" Bad boy races. If I can not do this because of several planets or many planets (because once you integrate a race/species

into you empire they start showing up everywhere) in my Empire that were once "Bad Boys" causing revolutions then the Victory

conditions and goals/options are reduced.

I find it ironic that I'm defending eXterminate X when I am in fact a builder type player. But the End game goals(to me) seem unclear. The

bottom line is; I should be able to conquer the Galaxy no matter what form of Gov't I have.

JosEPh

< Message edited by JosEPh_II -- 4/24/2010 10:49:27 PM >

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What gives ?