Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver
...I wonder if anyone plays with unknown units. They seem interesting.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

Hi,

Sorry if I missed this somewhere but how do the variants work in the ATD2 scenario? I'm playing a PBEM game of Husky where the allied navy was released early and I don't think we chose to have variants - they seem to just be happening in the scenario.

Does ATD2 work this way? If a PBEM game is started will variants occur? Or do they only occur if the "Mystery Area of Ops" option in chosen when setting up the game?

Thanks

quote:

ORIGINAL: JSS

quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver
...I wonder if anyone plays with unknown units. They seem interesting.

This something I play from time-to-time. Truly the most underappreciated feature of SSG's games (IMHO anyways).

Stock scenarios typically run a 25% weaker or stronger than normal stat line for each unit (~50%of the units will be same strengths as normal scenario values). Scenario designer can make this feature as wild and wooly as desired.

Adds a flavor of true unpredictability as you don't know for sure if your units (or the opponents units) are up to the job of attacking/defending until the first combat for each. A scenario with well defined strategies gets a different feel. Of course I usually only play the AI this way as the unpredictability can sway scenario competiviness in PBEM... if the PBEM is not hyper competitive, this is even more fun (again IMHO!).

quote:

ORIGINAL: squatter
For me, AOs are a great system. But they only work as long as your opponent is not aware of your AOs.

quote:

But as they are coded currently they aren't achieving one of the main things they were designed to do: to prevent gamey tactics. As they are now, they in fact encourage more new gamey tactics because players know from experience what the AOs of the opposition are.

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ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

And by the way, for the record, I love the AOs and the Mystery Variants...

I too get frustrated when I see some units passing by my forces and I can't move to intercept with my stronger, punchier units...but I just relax and take it as granted that tha's the way it was...they are being ordered not to move as they have more pressing objectives. It's not their area, and not their field and to leave alone - other units will have to deal with the incursion. That's the way I play them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG

You guys are gamers, and pretty hard core ones at that, so designing a system of any complexity that completely eliminates gamey tactics is more or less impossible.

In our view, the AO system has a number of compelling benefits which deserve to be listed against any possible problems.

They inform the human player, as mentioned above, as to what is expected of his formations. This is critical in a large battle like ATD.

They likewise inform the AI, and make it much, much smarter than it could possibly be without them.

They do prevent a whole range of abuses which gamers were guilty of inflicting on our earlier game systems which didn't have AOs.

Notice that I said gamers were guilty, because I think people should take a measure of responsibility for your actions. Most competitive human endeavours have both a spirit and a letter of the law, and I don't think gamers can abuse the spirit while heaping sole blame on us for not configuring the letter of the law to stop them.

Ask yourselves whether you would prefer SSG to spend time tying our scenarios in knots in a probably futile attempt to prevent all possible cheesy tactics, or providing as level a playing field as possible and letting sensible men make sensible decisions, while we make new scenarios and games.

Gregor

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ORIGINAL: Noakesy

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

And by the way, for the record, I love the AOs and the Mystery Variants...

I too get frustrated when I see some units passing by my forces and I can't move to intercept with my stronger, punchier units...but I just relax and take it as granted that tha's the way it was...they are being ordered not to move as they have more pressing objectives. It's not their area, and not their field and to leave alone - other units will have to deal with the incursion. That's the way I play them.

Agree totally. Maybe I mistakenly implied that I didn't like them, but I think they are great. As per your note it is disappointing to see some units just sitting outside the AO but I can live with that

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

After watching a few tutorial videos its the AO that makes this game stand out for me...I just an't afford the outlay as I one will need a bigger monitor to compensate for the black lines and two need a nvidea graphics card as the latest ATI drivers don't have an option to to fix scale ratio. Still I'd love to have it in my collection.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

And by the way, for the record, I love the AOs and the Mystery Variants and it was the sole thing that got me to buy Kharkov and why I came to love the system. When Kharkov was released, I wasn't buying and paying that money for one scenario. When I read about AOs and Mystery Variants, I realised 1 scenario turned into 1 scenario with many variations. I was sold once I tried them out.

I too get frustrated when I see some units passing by my forces and I can't move to intercept with my stronger, punchier units...but I just relax and take it as granted that tha's the way it was...they are being ordered not to move as they have more pressing objectives. It's not their area, and not their field and to leave alone - other units will have to deal with the incursion. That's the way I play them.

By the way, fired AtD2 up last night and was in awe at the size. Confused why I paid so much for Kharkov only to pay less for an addon which is bigger than the original game...that's never happened before