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Always goes down with the ship???

 
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Always goes down with the ship??? - 7/22/2002 8:30:08 PM   
thantis

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Cooksville, MD
Status: offline 		I have noticed an almost lemming-like tendency for my captains (and admirals) to go down with the ship when the flagship gets sunk.

I can understand if a ships gets blown apart in the middle of a battle, but I've had captains go down with the ship far away from the battle - i.e. ship sinks on the way to port for repairs.

Anybody else notice this?

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Post #: 1
Re: Always goes down with the ship??? - 7/22/2002 8:38:11 PM   
rhohltjr


Posts: 536
Joined: 4/27/2000
From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by thantis
[B]I have noticed an almost lemming-like tendency for my captains (and admirals) to go down with the ship when the flagship gets sunk.

I can understand if a ships gets blown apart in the middle of a battle, but I've had captains go down with the ship far away from the battle - i.e. ship sinks on the way to port for repairs.

Anybody else notice this? [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes. You would think that some of the captains would choose to live and fight another day. I have had a few ships sink in port due to my getting them the swiss cheese treatment.

I haven't noticed captains going down with the ship in harbor - yet. Give me some more play time though...:D

(in reply to thantis)
Post #: 2
Glub glub glub - 7/22/2002 8:52:22 PM   
Scouters

 

Posts: 75
Joined: 4/1/2002
From: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Status: offline 		I think the rule is that when a ship sinks there is a 50% chance the captain will go down with it. This reflects a coin toss that is conducted by the other officers to determine the captain's fate. "Heads" means they toss him a lifeboat for subsequent court-martial. "Tails" means they tie him to the ship's wheel and wave goodbye.

-Scouters

_____________________________

"You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down on every one. Come to think of it, I've never landed a plane in my life."

-Admiral Benson

(in reply to thantis)
Post #: 3
Re: Glub glub glub - 7/22/2002 9:00:51 PM   
Spooky


Posts: 816
Joined: 4/1/2002
From: Froggy Land
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scouters
[B]I think the rule is that when a ship sinks there is a 50% chance the captain will go down with it. This reflects a coin toss that is conducted by the other officers to determine the captain's fate. "Heads" means they toss him a lifeboat for subsequent court-martial. "Tails" means they tie him to the ship's wheel and wave goodbye.

-Scouters [/B][/QUOTE]

Do you think we can assume it will be the same thing for the CEOs of bankrupt companies :D

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Post #: 4
- 7/22/2002 11:03:48 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		UV is probably the first game where the "scuttle" function actually has some use, as you can save a good captain (and Admiral i assume if it's the flagship) by choosing this option vs. taking your 50/50 chance by allowing the ship to founder on it's own

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Post #: 5
- 7/22/2002 11:10:16 PM   
thantis

 

Posts: 185
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Cooksville, MD
Status: offline 		I never thought of that. Of course the one admiral I would want to save (Ching Chong China Lee) went down fighting on the South Dakota at Shortlands.......:mad:

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Post #: 6
Scuttle - 7/22/2002 11:17:09 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		If you scuttle the wreck, you save victory points and crew/leader.

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Post #: 7
Re: Glub glub glub - 7/23/2002 12:13:08 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scouters
[B]I think the rule is that when a ship sinks there is a 50% chance the captain will go down with it. This reflects a coin toss that is conducted by the other officers to determine the captain's fate. "Heads" means they toss him a lifeboat for subsequent court-martial. "Tails" means they tie him to the ship's wheel and wave goodbye.

-Scouters [/B][/QUOTE]I think it would be an even higher ratio for IJN skippers/TF Commanders to go down with the ship. Look at the Battle of Midway. At least 2 ship Captains and 1 RAdm (Yamaguchi) went down with the ship.

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Post #: 8
- 7/23/2002 12:18:12 AM   
Wilhammer

 

Posts: 449
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: Out in the Sticks of Rockingham County, North Caro
Status: offline 		"If you scuttle the wreck, you save victory points and crew/leader."

If I read this correctly, are you saying that if you scuttle a ship, you PREVENT the loss of VPs gain to the opponent AND you spare the command and crew?

I have not tried the scuttle routine.

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Post #: 9
- 7/23/2002 12:20:49 AM   
Spooky


Posts: 816
Joined: 4/1/2002
From: Froggy Land
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wilhammer
[B]"If you scuttle the wreck, you save victory points and crew/leader."

If I read this correctly, are you saying that if you scuttle a ship, you PREVENT the loss of VPs gain to the opponent AND you spare the command and crew?

I have not tried the scuttle routine. [/B][/QUOTE]

No, you spare the command & crew so your VP loss is only 90% of the ship value ...

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Post #: 10
- 7/23/2002 12:23:41 AM   
Wilhammer

 

Posts: 449
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: Out in the Sticks of Rockingham County, North Caro
Status: offline 		So if the ship sinks due to scuttling, the opponent gets but 90% of the VPs and you save the crew and commanders?

What if it carries passengers, do they get saved?

If there are no friendly shipsin a hex, or you are not in port, do you still benefit from scuttling?

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Post #: 11
- 7/23/2002 12:29:26 AM   
Spooky


Posts: 816
Joined: 4/1/2002
From: Froggy Land
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wilhammer
[B]So if the ship sinks due to scuttling, the opponent gets but 90% of the VPs and you save the crew and commanders?

What if it carries passengers, do they get saved?

If there are no friendly shipsin a hex, or you are not in port, do you still benefit from scuttling? [/B][/QUOTE]

Yep, you can scuttle a ship everywhere with the same benefits. AFAIK, the ship's load is lost ...

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Post #: 12
Re: Re: Glub glub glub - 7/23/2002 12:33:03 AM   
Scouters

 

Posts: 75
Joined: 4/1/2002
From: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Admiral DadMan
[B]I think it would be an even higher ratio for IJN skippers/TF Commanders to go down with the ship. Look at the Battle of Midway. At least 2 ship Captains and 1 RAdm (Yamaguchi) went down with the ship. [/B][/QUOTE]

This is because IJN high command issued special coins that had "You Lose" on one side and "Try Again" on the other. None the less, this was still a great improvement over the draconian "Magic Eight Ball" policy of the 1930's.

-Scouters

_____________________________

"You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down on every one. Come to think of it, I've never landed a plane in my life."

-Admiral Benson

(in reply to thantis)
Post #: 13
- 7/23/2002 12:33:43 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wilhammer
[B]"If you scuttle the wreck, you save victory points and crew/leader."

If I read this correctly, are you saying that if you scuttle a ship, you PREVENT the loss of VPs gain to the opponent AND you spare the command and crew?

I have not tried the scuttle routine. [/B][/QUOTE]From page 116 of the manual:

20. Victory Conditions:
"...If a ship is scuttled, it will score 10% less than its standard VP's..."

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Spooky
[B]AFAIK, the ship's load is lost ...[/B][/QUOTE]unless it a "...cargo plane of rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong..."

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(O.o)
(> <)

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Post #: 14
- 7/23/2002 12:35:15 AM   
Wilhammer

 

Posts: 449
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: Out in the Sticks of Rockingham County, North Caro
Status: offline 		Now for the vent.

I can understand how you save the crew by scuttling the ship, it makes sense, to a point.

1. Scuttling with neighbors. Friendly ships pick up your floating friends.

2. Scuttling without neighbors. Crew, in ordely fashion, gets on lifeboats/rafts, and sends out a distress message.

3. Capture? Scuttling without neighbors beyone reach of friends. Your gonna die or get captured.

The 90% VP rule for scuttling ships.

A ship sunk is a ship sunk. I say, give them 100% of the value.

The most famous of all scuttlings, the Graf Spee, was certainly worth 100% of the VP.

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Post #: 15
- 7/23/2002 12:42:54 AM   
Spooky


Posts: 816
Joined: 4/1/2002
From: Froggy Land
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wilhammer
[B]Now for the vent.

I can understand how you save the crew by scuttling the ship, it makes sense, to a point.

1. Scuttling with neighbors. Friendly ships pick up your floating friends.

2. Scuttling without neighbors. Crew, in ordely fashion, gets on lifeboats/rafts, and sends out a distress message.

3. Capture? Scuttling without neighbors beyone reach of friends. Your gonna die or get captured.

The 90% VP rule for scuttling ships.

A ship sunk is a ship sunk. I say, give them 100% of the value.

The most famous of all scuttlings, the Graf Spee, was certainly worth 100% of the VP. [/B][/QUOTE]

The most famous !!! You are joking :) The Hornet was also scuttled as were many other ships in the Pacific War !

An experienced crew is a valuable asset so it this 90% rule is quite logical !

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Post #: 16
Flagship? - 7/23/2002 12:43:33 AM   
Coleman

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 6/10/2002
Status: offline 		How can you tell which ship in a task force is the flagship?

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Post #: 17
Re: Flagship? - 7/23/2002 12:49:35 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Coleman
[B]How can you tell which ship in a task force is the flagship? [/B][/QUOTE]It's the one that rides lower in the water due to the extra personnel aboard from Flag Staff

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Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to thantis)
Post #: 18
- 7/23/2002 12:52:13 AM   
Scouters

 

Posts: 75
Joined: 4/1/2002
From: Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA
Status: offline 		I think the discounted VP's reflect the probability that fewer crew casualties would have occurred and accounts for some type of preservation of morale since the ship did not directly go down in the face of the enemy.

There is some historical precedent for the latter case. On January 16, 1991 (the first official day of Operation Desert Storm), upon learning of the beginning of American aggression, Iraqi Navy Lt Cmdr Tariq Salimi led a group of patrol craft into the gulf and promptly scuttled all his ships. Soon after he was promoted to Commodore for "bold, decisive action which prevented the great fleet of Iraq from being desecrated by the precision guided munitions of the great Satan." Salimi was later given command of a combined frigate/destroyer group which he immediately set on fire.

-Scouters

_____________________________

"You know, I've personally flown over 194 missions and I was shot down on every one. Come to think of it, I've never landed a plane in my life."

-Admiral Benson

(in reply to thantis)
Post #: 19
- 7/23/2002 12:59:39 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scouters
[B]I think the discounted VP's reflect the probability that fewer crew casualties would have occurred and accounts for some type of preservation of morale since the ship did not directly go down in the face of the enemy.

There is some historical precedent for the latter case. On January 16, 1991 (the first official day of Operation Desert Storm), upon learning of the beginning of American aggression, Iraqi Navy Lt Cmdr Tariq Salimi led a group of patrol craft into the gulf and promptly scuttled all his ships. Soon after he was promoted to Commodore for "bold, decisive action which prevented the great fleet of Iraq from being desecrated by the precision guided munitions of the great Satan." Salimi was later given command of a combined frigate/destroyer group which he immediately set on fire.

-Scouters [/B][/QUOTE]"TAKE THAT!!! YOU EVIL DOGS!!!!"

Call him hot tomale' Salimi

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to thantis)
Post #: 20
- 7/23/2002 11:25:02 AM   
LTC B

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 6/7/2002
Status: offline 		Seriously, how do you determine which ship is the flagship????

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Post #: 21
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