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PT Boats not fighting? - 4/29/2010 9:23:16 AM   
PMCN

 

Posts: 625
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Germany
Status: offline 		As the Dutch navy has been driven out of Java by the Kibbles&Bits plus friends all shores tour I was trying to interdict landings with PT boats. The Dutch ones and 3 survivors from the Philippines. Currently 2 groups of 3 PT boats are stationed in Timor at Koebang, 1 group of 2 in Java still but none of them attack. Well once I believe I saw a PT launch torpedoes but when I was using them in the Philippines they actually managed to get in and sink the odd transport (pre-patch). But now even if there is nothing but a PB and a xAKL they "evade" combat and generally only delay the landing slightly.

Has something changed? It does seem to have neutered PT boats operating in litorial waters a lot. Admittedly in the last case they were retreating from a IJN TF with a CA, DD, PB and xAk (or AK) but in many cases they avoid combat with much less robustly screened forces.

The RAN Hobart screened by the RAN Vampire and Vendetta put paid to that IJN TF sinking the transport and leaving the battle with all the enemy ships ablaze for moderate damage to all RAN ships. Go RAN GO!
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RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/29/2010 9:43:20 AM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		New script: PT's will only engage at night.  During the day they will most likely evade combat.

Best results are gotten on moonless nights where the PT's can sneak up to an opponent and combat is engaged at close range.

So wait for moonless nights/ low visibility and hit invasion forces at night.

Believe me, PT's still have plenty of teeth left, even post patch


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RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/29/2010 12:00:13 PM   
PMCN

 

Posts: 625
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Ahhhh...come to think on it in the Philippines most of the attacks were at night...  Thank you for the information, helps a lot.




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RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/29/2010 12:40:53 PM   
P.Hausser


Posts: 416
Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline 		Try very agressive commander

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RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/29/2010 3:09:46 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		There is small(ish) chance with aggressive commander, that they will attack also during day. But since PT boats are basically cardboard boxes with torpedoes, results are rarely pretty in that case. PT boats have snowball's chance in hell without surprise and/or getting close..and as one can imagine, it's lot easier to achieve surprise and get to torpedo range during night than during day.... May work in bad weather with low visibility.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 4/29/2010 3:11:45 PM >

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RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/29/2010 4:29:41 PM   
PMCN

 

Posts: 625
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Germany
Status: offline 		One time they attacked during the day, well sorta inadvertently since I think they were trying to withdraw but anyway one PT boat did launch its torpedoes and miss.  But I'm so used to that by now, when torpedoes not only hit but explode I am generally surprised.  The IJN DD Kamikazi (or something like that) was missed by 3 spreads of torpedoes, then finally a torpedo hits it and..."Hit but no explosion."  The crew must have been passing the sake around after that one.

Well the PTs might be plywood boxes with torpedoes but their opponents are merchant vessels with small caliber guns and poor quality gun crew guarded by a converted fishing boat.  And the PT boats do 35+ knots so they aren't easy to hit.  I can understand them withdrawing from a warship but not from a PB guarding a few xAKL well ok truthfully the sea was full of Japanese ships.  Though in that case both sides seemed to feel discretion was the better part of valor.  I don't mind them just bouncing the invasion either, that works since I'm trying to keep the troops off the beach.  I'm actually thinking about making some MGBs since they aren't such pains to re-arm (an AG can do it).

I'm not sure why exactly the attacks in at least me sending them from Koebang to Launtern/Dilli were not at night.  The ones where I had to stage them up the Java coast from Soerabaja were going to be during the day.  Possibly the night ones had the IJN slipping away...or slinking off...or Banzii-ing "that away"



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RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/29/2010 4:31:49 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		Paul McNeely, if you look, there are no ship commanders with any good ratings. They have aggresiveness aroune 25-35 and naval skill about 40 or so. I have never been able to get the Dutch MTBs to do much of anything.

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RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/29/2010 4:38:08 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline 		even if you do have a 'few' good agressive commanders , do you really want to risk them on the aformentioned plywood coffin ? .. much more useful in a bigger ship imo.



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RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/29/2010 4:50:30 PM   
PMCN

 

Posts: 625
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I believe you are correct but the guy in command actually elected to attack, and the PT boats closed to 6000 yards then one took a 12cm hit and became kindling.  The PTs retired then, I can't rightly blame them for that.

I don't doubt they aren't good, I seem to recall seeing low numbers.  My problem with leaders is trying to sort out which combination I should look for.  I've been mainly trying to get good land commanders for the Chinese, but it is utterly arcane and seems to be splitting hairs or atoms to differentiate between someone rated for a rear area command and someone else who is rated for a front line command.

I'll look at the commander though and see if I can get someone in there.  "Lt. Prince, What part of: you are the only thing between us and Japanese landing do you not just quite get?"...or else maybe the Ruskies will lend me some NKVD troops.

I should not whinge too much though since Java is actually the first time the Japanese are behind the historical timeline...the KNIL still holds half of Java and at least some of the lead Japanese forces have been badly hurt.

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RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/29/2010 9:51:38 PM   
usersatch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2


Believe me, PT's still have plenty of teeth left, even post patch



Yup, I sank two Japanese CVs off of Townsville with them.

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Post #: 10
RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/29/2010 10:48:37 PM   
Sredni

 

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I had a hard time getting my pt boats to do anything in the PI. They kept going out and "avoiding action" in the night and then fleeing back to safe harbor. By the time I actually got them to do something I'd lost manilla and I couldn't reload their torpedoes . Though the one engagement they did fight they killed a bunch of transports guarded by a couple PG's so well worth their price I guess.

I'm not expecting much out of the pt's in the dei.

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RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/29/2010 11:54:51 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		You can change out the PTs in the PI with some decent commanders( not the Philipine ones though ) The British MTBs at Hong Kong have some good leaders also. A good thing is that most of them can be changed for 0 PPs.

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RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/29/2010 11:55:37 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

even if you do have a 'few' good agressive commanders , do you really want to risk them on the aformentioned plywood coffin ? .. much more useful in a bigger ship imo.




Most of the PT commanders are Ensigns and not suitable for anything other than PTs.

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RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/30/2010 12:47:09 AM   
ETF


Posts: 1748
Joined: 9/16/2004
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline 		How can you ensure to attack at night?

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RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/30/2010 3:36:42 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Base them close enough to the target so that the distance they have to travel equates to what they can do in the first 12 hours.

Alfred

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RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/30/2010 5:26:13 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		well for what its worth pt are GREAT kamakasi bait! 

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Post #: 16
RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/30/2010 9:42:10 PM   
jetjockey


Posts: 256
Joined: 11/23/2009
Status: offline 		Watch your fuel-range. The only time my PTs get skittish is during the day or when they don’t have a lot of fuel (tagged to another TF for ferry). Though not as skillful as the US PTs or British MLs, the Dutch PTs will get right in there and mix it up. Also, PTs are better in the Attack than they are on Defense.

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Post #: 17
RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/30/2010 11:19:03 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		note regarding fuel range, pt will refuel from ships AND subs.. giving you a way to GREATLY extend the ranges .. so you cannot put into same tf, but you can set to not retire, stay command, and if in same hex they usually auto refuel! not that in the early war you would do this but as the war progresses it really can hinder the enemy to have pts poaching the sea lanes

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Post #: 18
RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 4/30/2010 11:25:25 PM   
jetjockey


Posts: 256
Joined: 11/23/2009
Status: offline 		I love the "sub"idea!

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Post #: 19
RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 5/1/2010 8:12:33 AM   
PMCN

 

Posts: 625
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Germany
Status: offline 		I looked at the commanders. The people in BUPERS had assigned the worst twits to command the PT squadrons that they could find. There are much better commanders available and I installed the best I could get for a 0 PP cost swap. Or at least the best my poor understanding of leader traits allowed me to select. Aggression levels of all current commanders are at least x2 the old, Naval is generally at least +10 more, and leadership, and inspiration are higher.

I have done some fair complex routing in the past to stage PT boats to the strike through bases and such. I had to do this along the Java coast.

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Post #: 20
RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 5/1/2010 11:55:37 AM   
jimh009

 

Posts: 368
Joined: 5/15/2005
Status: offline 		Never say that PT boats won't fight! Although Patch #3 has way toned down PT boats (which was needed, INMO), they still put up a good show during night time battles. Unescorted TF's can still be slaughtered by PT boats quite nicely.

And don't think PT boats can't harass other TF's, either. I just had a Dutch PT boat TF react to a Japanese CV TF that was one hex away from Batavia. Believe it or not, the PT boats managed to sink the Akagi with one very lucky torpedo strike!! :)

A nice way to start the war for the Allies - all the more so since another lucky submarine torpedo hit sunk the Shokaku as she was returning from her Pearl Harbor adventure.

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Post #: 21
RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 5/2/2010 10:06:17 AM   
PMCN

 

Posts: 625
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Ok, just an update. The Phillipine PTs based out of Koepang just executed a perfect night attack on an unsuspecting IJN transport group and the fishing boat with guns was left picking survivors from the water as the xAP went down. The only thing that spoiled the event was the first volley of torpedoes did that "Hit but does not explode" thing. I just made some PT boats at Port Morsbey and hopefully this will cause the IJN to rethink the whole sail past with impunity idea. This evening the Dutch squadron will pay a return visit since air recon indicates more boats in port.

Thanks guys.

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Post #: 22
RE: PT Boats not fighting? - 5/8/2010 3:07:30 PM   
RUDOLF


Posts: 261
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sredni

I'm not expecting much out of the pt's in the dei.






Mine are fighting, just wait for optimal weather before applying them...





Night Time Surface Combat, near Singkawang at 56,88, Range 1,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Kumano
CL Sendai
DD Shirayuki
DD Uranami
DD Shikinami
DD Ayanami
xAK Gokoku Maru #2
xAK Seisyo Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Zyunyo Maru
xAK Hikosan Maru, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Hokusho Maru, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Iwaki Maru, Shell hits 3
xAK Josho Maru, Shell hits 2
xAK Kurohime Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Meisho Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Midori Maru, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships
PT TM-8
PT TM-9, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
PT TM-10
PT TM-11
PT TM-12, Shell hits 1, on fire
PT TM-14
PT TM-15



Reduced sighting due to 0% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 0% moonlight: 1,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
Range closes to 9,000 yards...
Range closes to 8,000 yards...
Range closes to 7,000 yards...
Range closes to 6,000 yards...
Range closes to 5,000 yards...
Range closes to 4,000 yards...
Range closes to 3,000 yards...
Range closes to 2,000 yards...
Range closes to 1,000 yards...

< Message edited by RUDOLF -- 5/8/2010 3:12:48 PM >

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