WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/5/2010 8:04:56 AM

fulcrum28

Posts: 660
Joined: 2/28/2010
Status: offline

Hello, I had the impression that WitP(AE) also includes the possibility to play the whole pacific war campaign and features related to political, industrial and resources. May some player comment the main differences with strategic-level games like Hoi2/3 ? Probably I think the level of detail in WitP is much higher I think.

I would like to buy a game soon, and I would like to be sure about it.
Thank you in advance.

Post #: 1

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/5/2010 8:24:04 AM

Sardaukar

Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline

Already answered to you in your other thread.�

You'd not want to compare this to HoI, this is way more complex and same time more limited than HoI. AE is wargame, not Political-Strategic-Economical-Operational game like HoI. AE focus is military operations in Pacific War. On side of Japan, you have limited control of research of new airplanes and ability to change and expand production. That's it. With Allies, you fight what you got.

This doesn't mean things are simple. My first turn for Allies, inputting orders had taken 2.5 hrs minimum. And I have played WitP and this sequel AE combined since 2004. Usually it could take 4 hrs, but when experience, you can streamline a lot. My attempt to play Japan took me 8 hrs (basically whole weekend) to input first turn orders. Latter turns usually take 15-30 mins per turn for me.

So, as word of caution, this is not HoI...this is probably the most complex wargame you can find around.

< Message edited by Sardaukar -- 5/5/2010 8:37:29 AM >

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von B�lov, 1870-

(in reply to fulcrum28)

Post #: 2

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/5/2010 10:14:21 AM

jomni

Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline

The games are very different.
In WITP you have no choice but the fight the war.
In HOI you can opt for a diplomatic solution. :D

_____________________________

My Blog
Random Wargame Name Generator

(in reply to Sardaukar)

Post #: 3

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/5/2010 12:23:45 PM

Misconduct

Posts: 1864
Joined: 2/18/2009
From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

Hello, I had the impression that WitP(AE) also includes the possibility to play the whole pacific war campaign and features related to political, industrial and resources. May some player comment the main differences with strategic-level games like Hoi2/3 ? Probably I think the level of detail in WitP is much higher I think.

I would like to buy a game soon, and I would like to be sure about it.
Thank you in advance.

I am a new guy that's only been around over a year since I bought WITP and WITP AE. My point of view is this, the game is expensive - the game is pretty darn complex and the learning curve takes a good amount of reading the manual and forums. However, to finish a "quick" campaign game you are looking at probably 6 months to a year depending how fast you can play, so you get your moneys worth since most games like your average shoot em up you can beat in a week top. The Learning curve can be eased simply by starting a short scenario campaign till you finish it out and learn the basics of micromanagement. Complex part of the game is what makes the game outstanding, micromanagement takes a bit to understand, and sometimes its just down right annoying to have to command every single unit, however once you get started and things fall into place - management gets easier, however there is a frustration factor and the game is highly intimidating dispite how much I knew bout the pacific war.

My verdict is, if you love strategy war games and want something you won't beat in a month that can give you what every war gamer dreams as far as micromanaging its units, this is the game you want to buy.

_____________________________

ASUS Maximus IV Extreme-Z Intel Core I7 2800k Corsair Hydro Heatsink Corsair Vengeance DD3 24GB EVGA GTX 580 Western Digital 1.5TB Raid 0 Windows 7

(in reply to fulcrum28)

Post #: 4

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/5/2010 2:50:35 PM

Oldguard1970

Posts: 578
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: Hiawassee, GA
Status: offline

WITP and now AE own ALL of my war gaming time, and have done so for years.� I am addicted!

The game will scare off many players.� This is not a "beer and pretzels" distraction.� The mass of activities and choices available will be daunting at first blush.�

However, I found I could get my arms around the basics pretty quickly.� Soon, after a couple of hilariously poor starts against the AI, I managed to understand the basics and began to hold my own.� Each trip to the forum revealed new elements of play and new things to do.� I would also open various tabs and windows to start examining options and choices.... so many options and choices!� I got better at deciding what is important and what is not.� That transformed the game into the powerful exercise of finiding a winning strategy coupled with proper operational elements.

Ha!� What will the AI do?� How can I respond?� What I can I do to win?� Oh Boy!� Soon I was able to wipe the floor with the AI.� Then it was time to switch sides and try again.� A few new twists later, and the AI�was on the floor again.�

At this stage, those of us who can find the time and the right partner can try our hands at PBEM.� Wow!� The suspense is huge!� My opponent has�clobbered me and tricked me.��I have done the same to him.� We sweat out each turn and wrack our brains to develop the next set of orders.� Magnificent!

Those who cannot or will not engage in PBEM can still have fun against the AI by imposing some self-limiting "house rules" on one's own play in order to keep the AI "in the game" a bit longer.� (Let's see, I will not allow myself to use Political Points to buy out all of the units I bought out last time I played.� Instead, I will fight with units structured as they are.� ...)� In addition, the AI in Admiral's Edition is much more challenging than the AI in WITP... (Thanks to the hard work of Andy Mac.)

The game is not for everyone, but it is just the best there is for many of us.� Have fun!

< Message edited by OldGuard1970 -- 5/5/2010 2:52:06 PM >

_____________________________

"Rangers Lead the Way!"

(in reply to Misconduct)

Post #: 5

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/5/2010 5:57:35 PM

Rob Brennan UK

Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline

I have both HOI 3 and AE..

bought AE on release and still playing/learning.

bought HOI cheaply in january, played one game and when china overran korea and soviet russia surrendered to roumania i gave up

.

Seriously AE is far better in accuracy/play time/detail/great support/forums/dev input.

HOI seriosly lacks historical accuracy/realistic unit contruction (tiger II nov 1940 anyone)/a 1/2 decent AI / a challenge ..

that said HOI is quite 'fun' untill war breaks out, then its a nightmare of micro management especially in naval war when an entire nations navy can be wiped out and you dont even notice it !. AE makes a lot more sense and you get to see the results of your decisions played out for you.

If you have the money to only get 1 then get AE . OFC i am biased mind you

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to Oldguard1970)

Post #: 6

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/5/2010 7:48:50 PM

Dixie

Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OldGuard1970

WITP and now AE own ALL of my war gaming time, and have done so for years.� I am addicted!

The game will scare off many players.� This is not a "beer and pretzels" distraction.� The mass of activities and choices available will be daunting at first blush.�

<snip>

The game is not for everyone, but it is just the best there is for many of us.� Have fun!

Exactly, whilst you can play the HOI games without too much thinking, AE will require a lot more 'effort' on your part to really understand and succeed. It's not really a game you can play half-hearted, but if you're willing to put the effort in then it's a far better game (IMO).
I've had some great moments in AE (even the bad ones stand out for good reasons), in contrast I can remember hardly anything from any of my HOI 2 games.

_____________________________

Bigger boys stole my sig

(in reply to Oldguard1970)

Post #: 7

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/5/2010 8:04:06 PM

sdevault

Posts: 143
Joined: 10/28/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

So, as word of caution, this is not HoI...this is probably the most complex wargame you can find around.

Truer words have never be spoken....

(in reply to Sardaukar)

Post #: 8

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/6/2010 12:43:55 AM

Tatoune

Posts: 83
Joined: 1/6/2010
Status: offline

I own HoI 1/2/3 and "was" a fanboy. Last december I was frustrated about the issues thing so I looked for a new title and hopefully, I found AE.

6 months later i'm still learning AE... for real... Honestly at the beginning I was discouraged but now I know that I'll never go back to HoI cause AE is more accurate in ALL... When I play, I feel like playing a real historical strategy game, a more serious game... I mean another level than HoI.

_____________________________

(in reply to sdevault)

Post #: 9

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/6/2010 2:03:54 AM

Bradley7735

Posts: 2073
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline

You know it's extremely detailed when there's threads discussing the ballistic ceiling vs effective ceiling of 40mm bofors guns. Even though you see complaining threads from time to time, every one on these boards loves WITP AE, and most have been playing since 2002 and UV.

_____________________________

The older I get, the better I was.

(in reply to Tatoune)

Post #: 10

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/6/2010 3:28:24 AM

Ketza

Posts: 2227
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline

You can play ae for years and still learn new things about the game. I canot say that for any other game I have ever played and I have been playing computer games since 1982.

Bomb Alley anyone?

(in reply to Bradley7735)

Post #: 11

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/6/2010 9:36:14 AM

LoBaron

Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

HOI 1 was the best part of the series. Played it for years, back in the old times when the War in the Pacific was
still an Uncommon Valor...

�

HOI 2�made changes to the research tree that were�a big step back as far as I�m concerned.
HOI 3, well I played the demo but thats it. The idea behind the game is ambitious and fascinating but its for
sure not a "historcal" WWII game�compared to what�AE represents. Just not enough limitations to keep the game even remotely close
to the real WWII and because of high abstraction, naval battles bore the hell out of me.

Some people like that, I�m not one of em.

Yay to AE�s�heartthudding, sweatbreaking, fingercrossing,�nearmiss-splashing naval engagements.

_____________________________

(in reply to Ketza)

Post #: 12

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/6/2010 4:11:47 PM

enael

Posts: 8
Joined: 4/13/2010
Status: offline

HOI 3 is the worst game i ever played on WWII.
WitP AE is the best game i ever played on WWII (And it's a wargame from matrix with some pictures !

.. a miracle)
but you need a lot of time to learn and play it.

(in reply to LoBaron)

Post #: 13

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/6/2010 4:17:42 PM

fulcrum28

Posts: 660
Joined: 2/28/2010
Status: offline

thanks a lot for all the interesting comments.

(in reply to enael)

Post #: 14

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/6/2010 6:45:24 PM

KenchiSulla

Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline

Started on AE, never looked back....... It only annoys me when Arnhem (the evil Allies) shoots down more planes and sinks more ships...... I lost the BB Mutsu a few months ago (Gametime and real life). Mutsu took a few 1000 pounders from a suprise allied air attack. She was fine, a few dents, bit of flooding ... small fire. Next thing I know during next turn (sailing to Truk to repair) she takes a torp from the allied subscreen I didnt notice, and then another from those pesky S-boats.... Still no problem I thought.... small fire... AND THE TERRIBLE JAP DAMAGE CONTROL.... fires couldnt be put out, system damage skyrocketed - the End...

That annoyed me so much my girlfriend asked me - what the hell is wrong with you -

Thats what this game does to you

_____________________________

AKA Cannonfodder

"It happened, therefore it can happen again: this is the core of what we have to say. It can happen, and it can happen everywhere.�
� Primo Levi, writer, holocaust survivor

(in reply to fulcrum28)

Post #: 15

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/6/2010 8:02:34 PM

steamboateng

Posts: 354
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: somewhere in Massachusetts
Status: offline

HOI3 is the game that pointed me to WitP AE.
HOI3 is designed around WW2 continental land warfare. Its Pacific campaign left much to be desired. Even I was able to whoop the nips after owning the game for 5 weeks.
I have owned WitP AE for about 6 weeks. I've been actively playing/learning the fundamentals for about 3 weeks.
I have tackled the Guadalcanal scenario as my entry game. I'm up to Oct 6, 1942, and what an experience it's been!
I've discovered the horn(s) of the dilema the US got stuck with when Milne Bay was occupied; the difficulties in keeping Guadalcaanal supplied, for both Japan and US; the challange of expanding and supplying Port Moresby as an allied offensive base, etc.
As a history buff of sorts, I can easily relate to how AE plays out.
HOI3 doesn't even come close.

_____________________________

(in reply to KenchiSulla)

Post #: 16

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/9/2010 3:01:14 PM

fulcrum28

Posts: 660
Joined: 2/28/2010
Status: offline

thank you for the comments. I bought the game a couple of days ago and I am really enjoying. It is very complex and amazing...I predict I can spend many hours playing it. :)

(in reply to steamboateng)

Post #: 17

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/9/2010 4:47:46 PM

Rob Brennan UK

Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

thank you for the comments. I bought the game a couple of days ago and I am really enjoying. It is very complex and amazing...I predict I can spend many hours playing it. :)

Welcome to the club ! .. theres 1000 rules/tips etc that you'll pick up on this journey. and best of all once your comfortable playing vs the AI theres a good sized pool of PBEM players here too. And PBEM is where the game really shines imo.

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to fulcrum28)

Post #: 18

RE: WitP(AE) vs. HOI2/3 - 5/10/2010 12:16:43 PM

CaptBeefheart

Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline

Good man for buying this. I enjoyed the HOI series until the latest one. Big disappointment. The best fun is to conquer the world as a minor country (and those are the best HOI AARs--"Battleships for Bhutan" says it all).

I've been a fan of this series since Pacific War came out but I do like to play other stuff for variety--even the occasional dungeon hackfest every couple of years.

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to Rob Brennan UK)

Post #: 19