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Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/14/2010 4:10:15 AM

worr

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I'm playing as the Allies and it makes more sense at the war's outset to resupply some of the smaller islands with amphibious supply than transport I'm learning. But at one point do you reach a point of diminishing returns? If you have a size 3 or higher port is it better to use transpor to get more supplies there?

I should pay more attention to the tonnage numbers, but then again....I'm just road kill on the informatin highway!

< Message edited by worr -- 5/14/2010 4:11:15 AM >

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/14/2010 7:24:53 AM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: worr

I'm playing as the Allies and it makes more sense at the war's outset to resupply some of the smaller islands with amphibious supply than transport I'm learning. But at one point do you reach a point of diminishing returns? If you have a size 3 or higher port is it better to use transpor to get more supplies there?

I should pay more attention to the tonnage numbers, but then again....I'm just road kill on the informatin highway!

Is there a difference in unloading supplies between amphibious and transport if you own the port and your ships can all dock? If so then I haven�t noticed.

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/14/2010 7:41:06 AM

witpqs

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Yes - amphibious gets a bonus. So, if the port is small enough that the ships can unload faster than the port can take it, the amphib bonus will help. At larger ports, maybe not.

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/14/2010 4:18:24 PM

Rainer

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Amphib load has a malus - the ships are not fully loaded (compared to transport).
Amphib load means the ship is loaded to be unloaded as quickly as possible, thus not using the full capacity of the ship.

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/14/2010 4:27:30 PM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

Amphib load has a malus - the ships are not fully loaded (compared to transport).
Amphib load means the ship is loaded to be unloaded as quickly as possible, thus not using the full capacity of the ship.

my amphib TFs loaded with supplies are fully loaded... 100%

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/14/2010 4:45:38 PM

Rainer

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Read the manual.

Manual page 78
Manual page 123 (6.3.3.1.2 Combat Load)
Manual page 128 (6.3.3.3.2.2 Friendly Port - meaning Amphib Unload at a Friendly Port)

What is said there is in accordance with my observations.

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/14/2010 4:58:05 PM

Nikademus

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IIRC...amphibious load will first dump the troops and then unload supplies while transport represents non-combat loaded material.

In game terms, i have found that yes....if you need to quickly unload troops at a small port...use an Amphib TF, otherwise you'll be sitting there all year ripe for counterstroke from your opponent.

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/14/2010 5:08:35 PM

Rainer

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I did a little test, loading two otherwise identical ships - one in amphib load, the other as transport.
A day later both have completed loading.
The amphib has 80%, the transport 100%.

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< Message edited by Rainer -- 5/14/2010 5:25:36 PM >

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/14/2010 5:11:01 PM

bradfordkay

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It takes longer to combat load a ship than it does to normally load. Conversely, it take longer to unload a normally loaded ship than it does to unload a combat loaded one.

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/14/2010 5:20:19 PM

Rainer

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To make a long story short:

If the mission is assault/attack use Amphib - that's what Amphib Mission has been invented for

If the port in question does not have sufficient unloading capacity use Amphib - at reduced load capacity of the ships

If you really need fast unloading (to compensate for enemy air threads) use Amphib

Otherwise use Transport

Note: there is much more to that topic, like use of additional support (USN PortSvc).
Keep in mind that not all ships can utilize the Amphib Unload Bonus (see manual).
Keep in mind that trying to unload tanks from Queen Mary at an undeveloped atoll is a problem.

< Message edited by Rainer -- 5/14/2010 5:26:40 PM >

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/15/2010 1:50:05 AM

erstad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

Amphib load has a malus - the ships are not fully loaded (compared to transport).
Amphib load means the ship is loaded to be unloaded as quickly as possible, thus not using the full capacity of the ship.

my amphib TFs loaded with supplies are fully loaded... 100%

Could be. If you load them as an amphib, they load to 80%. But you can load them to 100% as a transport and then transfer them into a amphib TF.

However, even though the game engine allows this I consider it an exploit. It doesn't seem rational that the designer's intent was to limit loading with an amphib mission, but then allow that limit to be blindly ignored. So I don't do this very often, although I might if the intent is "there's two leftover ships in this port I want to add to the TF, and the extra supply is not that significant"; I wouldn't do it with the intent of "here's a way to maximize the load of my amphib TFs"

Edit: Although something I haven't thought of is whether the unloading rate is based on the TF type or the specific ship. If the ship unloads at the transport rate because it was transport loaded, even though it's in an amphib TF, then it's not an exploit. If a transport loaded ship unloads at an amphib rate in an amphib TF, then you're getting both the extra capacity and the extra unload. Anyone know for sure or ambitious enough to run a test (I'm not

)

< Message edited by erstad -- 5/15/2010 1:53:27 AM >

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/15/2010 3:01:48 AM

Don Bowen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

Amphib load has a malus - the ships are not fully loaded (compared to transport).
Amphib load means the ship is loaded to be unloaded as quickly as possible, thus not using the full capacity of the ship.

my amphib TFs loaded with supplies are fully loaded... 100%

Could be. If you load them as an amphib, they load to 80%. But you can load them to 100% as a transport and then transfer them into a amphib TF.

However, even though the game engine allows this I consider it an exploit. It doesn't seem rational that the designer's intent was to limit loading with an amphib mission, but then allow that limit to be blindly ignored. So I don't do this very often, although I might if the intent is "there's two leftover ships in this port I want to add to the TF, and the extra supply is not that significant"; I wouldn't do it with the intent of "here's a way to maximize the load of my amphib TFs"

Edit: Although something I haven't thought of is whether the unloading rate is based on the TF type or the specific ship. If the ship unloads at the transport rate because it was transport loaded, even though it's in an amphib TF, then it's not an exploit. If a transport loaded ship unloads at an amphib rate in an amphib TF, then you're getting both the extra capacity and the extra unload. Anyone know for sure or ambitious enough to run a test (I'm not)

The load type is tracked and processing is properly controlled for TROOP loads but not so sure about supply. The focus was on troops.

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/15/2010 3:38:10 PM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

I did a little test, loading two otherwise identical ships - one in amphib load, the other as transport.
A day later both have completed loading.
The amphib has 80%, the transport 100%.

and my amphibious TFs load just fine and to 100% so I�ve got no idea what your game is different to mine.

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/16/2010 6:59:49 AM

jimh009

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quote:

ORIGINAL: worr

I'm playing as the Allies and it makes more sense at the war's outset to resupply some of the smaller islands with amphibious supply than transport I'm learning. But at one point do you reach a point of diminishing returns? If you have a size 3 or higher port is it better to use transpor to get more supplies there?

I should pay more attention to the tonnage numbers, but then again....I'm just road kill on the informatin highway!

For naval attack, you'll ALWAYS want to use amphibious transports. You invite disaster if you use normal transports in naval attack operations! And you always want to try to use AP's and AK's, not xAP's or - especially avoid - xAK's.

For friendly ports...

For size one and size two ports, you'll almost always want to use amphibious transports to unload supply and you'll always want to use amphibious transports to unload troops. The only exception might be when you want to run a one ship/one escort supply run to a nearly island (like resupplying Johnson Island or Palmyra).

For size three and up, it really depends on what you're unloading. Tankers TF's - at least the ones I run - tend to be large, and thus take up a lot of tonnage (60-80K tons is the usual). Similarly, most troop transports have a lot of tonnage, too - and thus won't fit in the port. But a size 3 port has plenty of space for a small cargo TF, so normal transports can easily be used.

For what it's worth, I always use amphibious transports to transport troops except for transporting troops between the USA and Pearl Harbor. The reason is due to increased flexibility. You can unload an amphibious TF pretty much anywhere. A strategic transport, on the other hand, needs to be offloaded in a port big enough to hold the TF. Several times I've had to "re-route" transports to places different than intended when the troops were initially loaded.

Finally, never forget how important naval support is. Having 100 naval support in a base makes a massive different in unload times. You can usually fully unload a 100,000 ton task force in a size 6 port that has 100 naval support in two days or less. If you didn't have that naval support, that TF (which is too big to dock at the port), could take a week or more.

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/23/2010 7:39:51 PM

worr

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Which units give you naval support for sure? It seems hit and miss with some of the base forces.

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/23/2010 7:42:19 PM

cantona2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Yes - amphibious gets a bonus. So, if the port is small enough that the ships can unload faster than the port can take it, the amphib bonus will help. At larger ports, maybe not.

You learn something new everyday, thanks for that one!

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/23/2010 7:43:26 PM

cantona2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: worr

Which units give you naval support for sure? It seems hit and miss with some of the base forces.

quote:

Fast Reply

USN Port Deatchments have naval support in the early turns.

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RE: Amphibious Supply vs Transport - 5/24/2010 6:55:26 AM

jomni

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Ok lets exend the discussion.

What about Cargo?
What advantages and disadvantages do you get?

I just know that this doesn't load troops.�� But how does it perform in loading and unloading when compared to Amphibious and Transport?

< Message edited by jomni -- 5/24/2010 6:56:45 AM >

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