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RE: Air v. Naval attrition

 
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RE: Air v. Naval attrition - 5/4/2010 8:32:51 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Well today we exchanged equal numbers of planes as a 3 plane element of A-20s got butchered over Kwajalein. On the positive side though I downed 9 Zeroes over Kwajalein, almost all by pilots flying P40Bs.

I'm at over 200 Aviation support at Roi-Namur now and have almost 200 planes operational there. Soon I'll begin landing a Base Force at Wotje to help base dive-bombers to suppress Maloelap airfield and then it'll be Kusaie Island and Ponape. Once Ponape is sufficiently built up I'll commit 30 B17s to closing Truk from there. In the meantime though I'm going to focus on getting my 30+ B17s and 8 LB-30s out of the Marshalls and into the DEI. I want a solid punch of 50 4-engined bombers which I can use to counter his invasion TFs. They mightn't hit a huge amount but they'll surely draw his fighters into their lethal embrace and help many more of my other bombers survive.

One more week and Force Z will be fully repaired. I might also have a couple of USN CLs and some additional DDs in the area if they survive their commerce raiding mission. Tomorrow I'll post pictures of where they've gotten to... positions Mike should NEVER EVER have allowed them to reach... Very sloppy.

That's about it. More slaughter over Kwaj tomorrow and general Allied preparations to disrupt and meet the next IJN thrust.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 331
RE: Air v. Naval attrition - 5/5/2010 10:03:09 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Well, 21st February 1942 and my commerce raiders are in position. The waters east of the Phillipines seem strangely empty. Ah well, time to commit to the waters closer in to the shore and west of the Phillipines. Another 8 or 9 Zeroes are downed over Kwajalein while, for some reason, a B-18 flight decides to raid Kwajalein all by itself. Ah well, they were idiots to do that. Now they're dead idiots and Darwinian selection continues apace.

Right now I'm somewhat regretting that I didn't go with a potential Phase 2 amphibious landing of 1,000 AV into the Legaspi area. I really think I might have been able to get the transports ashore undetected, drop 150,000+ tons of supply with them and relieve the Phillipines. Ah well, maybe next time.

6 days until I have Force Z back in full operation.

In the meantime I'm very obviously basing PBYs at Cagayan in the hopes of drawing another 500 IJA AV into a smallish siege there --- all of which will effectively remove them from the first phase of the Sumatran battle.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 332
When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/8/2010 2:42:20 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Well, 22nd February rolls around....

Japanese plane losses continue to outstrip mine with 6 to 9 Zeroes being downed every day now. Even accounting for a little FOW I am still comfortably preventing him building up a pool of Zeroes to allow for rapid replenishment of KB after it hits my forces in Sumatra.

In the picture below you can see my commerce raiders...

1. 2 x AMCs are raiding into the area west of the Phillipines. They should definitely find something, maybe even Tankers.

2. 1 x AMCs and 1 x large PG are moving past the Marianas in order to interdict shipping towards Truk.

3. 2 CLs and 6+DDs are going to combine and either hit enemy TFs at Legaspi or else move further north and hit shipping transitting south of Formosa. My goal then is to egress southward into the safety of the DEI/ Darwin region, repair damage and then join up with the RN battlegroup in the DEI. Additional USN forces are also on their way to Darwin via Kwajalein/Rabaul in order to reinforce the RN battlegroup also.

He should never have let me get into these positions though... there should have been recon covering the gaps I've snuck through but I think he's very focussed on bombing Manilla and actually committing to the fight to "waste" Netty units in the Marianas etc on naval search missions.

To be fair there are some naval searches coming out of the Marianas but I've been able to use submarines to plot their naval search arcs and thus have been able to avoid them, slipping around the arcs my submarines have plotted and through the gaps they've found - this is a useful tactic which has no counter ( except to cancel naval search missions entirely ) and which I've seen no-one else mention on the forums. So there's your free, simple and VERY useful tip for the day.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 5/8/2010 4:04:37 PM >

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 333
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/8/2010 5:49:43 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline
quote:

To be fair there are some naval searches coming out of the Marianas but I've been able to use submarines to plot their naval search arcs and thus have been able to avoid them, slipping around the arcs my submarines have plotted and through the gaps they've found - this is a useful tactic which has no counter ( except to cancel naval search missions entirely ) and which I've seen no-one else mention on the forums. So there's your free, simple and VERY useful tip for the day.




That is one useful Tip ! .. never occured to me before. Thanks

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 334
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/8/2010 9:28:39 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Aye, I get the distinct impression that people don't try to innovate in their tactics or strategy... It is a pity, innovation is so often rewarded when one's opponent is conventional.

Then again, mob intolerance, fear of the other, fear of the unknown, fear of a lack of control ( either internal or external ) those are the true things which unitE most of humanity.... not the free-spirited, creative stuff which risks. That irks.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 5/8/2010 10:06:44 PM >

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to Rob Brennan UK)
Post #: 335
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/8/2010 10:17:35 PM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline 		Nemo,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Aye, I get the distinct impression that people don't try to innovate in their tactics or strategy... It is a pity, innovation is so often rewarded when one's opponent is conventional.

Then again, the mob intolerance, fear of the other, fear of the unknown, fear of a lack of control ( either internal or external ) those are the true things which unit most of humanity.... not the free-spirited, creative stuff which risks. That irks.


Version 1:

a) never change a running system

b) all operations going wrong are due to unfortunate computer dice rolls, evident failures of game routines etc whereas all operations going right are due to the excellent system - so evidently the system is running

c) no change needed !


Version 2:

An astonishing amount of innovative, free-spirited, creative stuff simply fails. Problem is: These innovations are not promoted a lot, so nobody gets to know about them. Consequently, the few really successful innovations are broadcasted much more efficiently, leading to a completely skewed perception of the success connected to innovation and a completely unjustified enthusiasm for freedom of spirit and creativity.

As always, my 2cts.

Hartwig

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 336
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/8/2010 10:23:49 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Hehe, ah Hartwig " Au Contraire, Devil's Advocate" Modrow ,

Sure innovation fails but to see people settle for so little when a little thought could yield results... Well, it makes you wish for a global pandemic. Not because of the failure to innovate within a game but for what it says about humanity in general. Maudlin as hell isn't it?

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to modrow)
Post #: 337
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/9/2010 10:37:04 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Another day, another day of aerial combat over Kwjalein.

Today saw some 18 Zeroes and about 6 Claudes defending Kwajalein - the first time I have seen Claudes there. He has either flown in a new unit from a CV somehow or he has downgraded a Zero unit for some reason. No matter, every airframe up in the air is a potential pilot killed. In the meantime my USAAF pilots are rapidly gaining experience - many of the pilots in Roi-Namur are now at or over 70 A2A Exp and even the P-40Bs are downing more Zeroes than they lose. I managed to down at least 6, possibly up to 9 in return for confirmed losses of just 3 of my own planes.

I sent 12 B-17s against Singapore and a Zero actually managed to down one with its first firing pass. Not bad. The B-17s got a little revenge when they destroyed a Zero on the ground there.

My Catalinas from Mindanao clobbered an IJN xAKL seeking to unload at an unoccupied dot base east of Menado while an S class submarine clobbered an IJN xAK hugging the western coast of the Phillipines. I think this might just be where I send the 2 x AMC. Should be able to get some nice pickings there and then hide amongst the cluster of small islands in the southern Phillipines.

In keeping with my normal stance I won't be reacting to this invasion at all, except perhaps to re-route a submarine or two, as it is striking something which isn't vital and thus already represents a waste of time and materiel by Mike. No point committing my forces to an unnecessary riposte.

In other news the great "Hide-out in the middle of nowhere" waiting game continues.


The big news of the day is that the expected IJA assault on Changsha materialised, announcing itself with an artillery bombardment. Some 5000+ AV of IJA troops are facing just under 4,000 ( but with another 500 AV on the way tomorrow ) AV of Chinese troops. Fortunately the IJA troops are in a light urban hex ( x 2 modifier IIRC ) and have Level 6 forts ( which should be another x 2 modifier ) and almost all are 100% prepped for Changsha ( so that'd be another x 2 modifier ). So, even accounting for their terrible training and morale ( 4,500 / 3 ( because of poor morale and poor training and leadership = 1,500 x 2 ( for urban hex ) x 2 ( for Level 6 forts ) x 1.5 ( for preparation... since not all are prepped ) = 9,000 ) I figure I should be able to manage an adjusted AV of 6,000 to 9,000. This means I feel relatively safe here. His best chance for forcing me out would be an initial Shock Attack but I don't think he'll do that. I think he'll probe first, giving me experience gains etc which I can use to hold out whenever he does Shock Attack.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 5/9/2010 10:44:19 AM >

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 338
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/9/2010 4:18:00 PM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

Fortunately the IJA troops are in a light urban hex ( x 2 modifier IIRC ) and have Level 6 forts ( which should be another x 2 modifier )

IJA? I think you've forgotten you're playing the Good Guys this time . . .

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 339
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/10/2010 1:28:30 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		No, Harlock, I'm playing as the Chinese

You are, of course, right! Double DOH!!!

Today the favourable aerial exchange rate continued with 7 Allied planes going down in return for 22 Japanese planes. Several elements of the USN are repaired and sailing to aid their brethren in the RN in the DEI and yet another R Class BB is on the scene. So, now I can mass 6 BBs in the DEI with at least another 6 ready for combat in the Pacific. So, in either theatre I now outmass the IJN battleline.

I've flown 20 level bombers, a P40 squadron and 13 Banshees into Menado to try to whittle down the shipping landing troops to the east. This will only be a hit and run raid but should still, I think, be worth it. It'll mark the beginning of the line I will defend and should force Mike to commit significant forces to further landings, forces I can then whittle down.

That's about it really for any major movement... For the rest I'm just waiting for the assaults to come in in China and figuring out how to mix and match the odds and ends of naval forces I have in the DEI. The commerce raiders are zigging and zagging everywhere to try and find targets. If this continues much longer I'm just going to send them all up to the waters around Formosa. They'll definitely hit some targets of worth there and make Mike seriously worry about future similar missions.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 5/10/2010 1:43:45 AM >

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 340
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/12/2010 12:13:30 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Feb 23, 42--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Onnekotan-jima at 136,48

Japanese Ships
SS RO-34

Allied Ships
AMC Prince Henry



AMC Prince Henry is sighted by SS RO-34
SS RO-34 launches 2 torpedoes at AMC Prince Henry


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Onnekotan-jima at 136,48

Japanese Ships
SS RO-34

Allied Ships
AMC Prince Henry, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

This was merchant raiding in the north.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 21st PA Infantry Division, at 79,77 (Manila)

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 42 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 39
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 11



Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 8 damaged
Ki-21-Ic Sally: 3 damaged


Allied ground losses:
66 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 3 (0 destroyed, 3 disabled)


Aircraft Attacking:
20 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
19 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
6 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 10000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
5 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 10000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

Also attacking 2nd PA Constabulary Division ...
Also attacking 1st PA Infantry Division ...
Also attacking 14th PS Engineer Regiment ...
Also attacking 31st PA Infantry/A Division ...
Also attacking USAFFE ...
Also attacking 21st PA Infantry Division ...
Also attacking 31st PA Infantry/A Division ...
Also attacking 21st PA Infantry Division ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 2nd PA Constabulary Division, at 79,77 (Manila)

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 27
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 6



Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 9 damaged


Allied ground losses:
67 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Aircraft Attacking:
27 x G3M2 Nell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
6 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 10000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

Lots of raids in the Phillipines.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on BFF Brigade, at 58,56 (Rahaeng)

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 46 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 25
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 29
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 19



No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Aircraft Attacking:
19 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 2nd Prov Chinese Corps, at 76,54 (Kweilin)

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27b Nate x 11
Ki-36 Ida x 21
Ki-51 Sonia x 29



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-36 Ida: 1 damaged
Ki-51 Sonia: 3 damaged


Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Aircraft Attacking:
29 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 10000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 50 kg GP Bomb
21 x Ki-36 Ida bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 30 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Changsha , at 82,52

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 47 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27b Nate x 2



No Japanese losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 11th PA Infantry Division, at 79,77 (Manila)

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 17
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 14
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 24



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-Ic Sally: 3 damaged
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 9 damaged
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 5 damaged


Allied ground losses:
44 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Aircraft Attacking:
17 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
7 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 10000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 100 kg GP Bomb
17 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
14 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 74th Chinese Corps, at 82,52 (Changsha)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 49 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 7



No Japanese losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 37th Division, at 86,41

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 27 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes


Allied aircraft
A-29A Hudson x 8


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kwajalein Island , at 132,115

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 39,200 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 7
A6M2 Zero x 12



Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 13
F2A-3 Buffalo x 7
F4F-3A Wildcat x 2
F4F-3 Wildcat x 4


Japanese aircraft losses
A5M4 Claude: 2 destroyed
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Actually 6 IJNAAF planes were downed...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Tarakan at 67,91

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 48 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes


Allied aircraft
Catalina I x 3


Allied aircraft losses
Catalina I: 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Yukikaze

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kwajalein Island , at 132,115

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 21 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 1
A6M2 Zero x 5



Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 3
P-40E Warhawk x 9
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
LB-30 Liberator: 1 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed


Runway hits 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Singkawang , at 56,88

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 28 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 37



Allied aircraft
B-17D Fortress x 3
B-17E Fortress x 6


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Airbase hits 2

Lost a B17D here. With enough fighters in the air the B17s do get downed, eventually.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kwajalein Island , at 132,115

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 1



Allied aircraft
A-20A Havoc x 3
P-36A Mohawk x 4
P-38E Lightning x 6
F4F-3A Wildcat x 3


No Japanese losses

No Allied losses



Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kwajalein Island , at 132,115

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 34,400 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes


Allied aircraft
P-40B Warhawk x 20
P-40E Warhawk x 4


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kwajalein Island , at 132,115

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 32 NM, estimated altitude 34,400 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes


Allied aircraft
P-40B Warhawk x 9


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kwajalein Island , at 132,115

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 37,400 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes


Allied aircraft
P-40B Warhawk x 8


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kwajalein Island , at 132,115

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 37,400 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes


Allied aircraft
P-40B Warhawk x 8


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 80th Chinese Corps, at 86,41

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 15
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 21



Allied aircraft
I-16-III x 2
I-15-III x 2


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 4 damaged
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
I-15-III: 1 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
46 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Aircraft Attacking:
15 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 76th Chinese Corps, at 86,41

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 12



Allied aircraft
I-16-III x 2
I-15-III x 2


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Tarakan at 67,91

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes


Allied aircraft
Catalina I x 3


Allied aircraft losses
Catalina I: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Nagara

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Babeldaob at 91,96

Japanese Ships
PB Saiko Maru
PB Edo Maru
PB Myoken Maru

Allied Ships
SS O24


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 86,41

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 5951 troops, 403 guns, 422 vehicles, Assault Value = 2066

Defending force 135571 troops, 1119 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4189

Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
160 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)


Assaulting units:
6th Ind.Mixed Brigade
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
20th Engineer Regiment
3rd NCPC Infantry Brigade
14th Division
37th Division
9th Tank Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
15th Tank Regiment
5th Armored Car Co
27th Electric Engineer Regiment
7th Ind.Mixed Brigade
20th Recon Regiment
4th NCPC Infantry Brigade
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
22nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
10th Mortar Battalion
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
26th Field Artillery Regiment
4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
4th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
9th Ind. Engineer Regiment
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
4th RF Gun Battalion
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
15th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
7th Ind. Engineer Regiment

Defending units:
96th Chinese Corps
7th Chinese Corps
36th Chinese Corps
84th Chinese Corps
57th Chinese Corps
29th Chinese Corps
80th Chinese Corps
47th Chinese Corps
1st Chinese Corps
61st Chinese Corps
76th Chinese Corps
40th Chinese Corps
82nd Chinese Corps
34th Chinese Corps
85th Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Corps
48th Chinese Corps
38th Chinese Corps
33rd Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps
98th Chinese Corps
1st Artillery Regiment
3rd Group Army
8th War Area
8th Group Army
1st War Area
7th Group Army
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment
22nd Artillery Regiment
41st AA Regiment
21st Group Army
4th Group Army
20th Artillery Regiment
24th Group Army
4th Heavy Mortar Regiment
36th Group Army
2nd Group Army
39th Group Army
57th AT Gun Regiment
34th Group Army
7th Artillery Regiment
18th Artillery Regiment
49th AA Regiment

No risk here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Changsha (82,52)

A good outcome. China is relatively safe...

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 145876 troops, 1405 guns, 710 vehicles, Assault Value = 5111

Defending force 138993 troops, 787 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4511

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 5

Japanese adjusted assault: 1863

Allied adjusted defense: 13807

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 7 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), experience(-)

Note the bonuses, terrain, forts and leaders. Only experience went against them but even there the experience will soon be gained through combat.

Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
20779 casualties reported
Squads: 107 destroyed, 1267 disabled
Non Combat: 29 destroyed, 1085 disabled
Engineers: 5 destroyed, 134 disabled
Vehicles lost 159 (1 destroyed, 158 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
5188 casualties reported
Squads: 18 destroyed, 180 disabled
Non Combat: 10 destroyed, 293 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 14 disabled

VERY favourable loss rates...


Assaulting units:
13th Ind.Mixed Brigade
12th Division
34th Division
11th RGC Temp. Division
3rd Division
13th Division
39th Division
116th Division
9th Armored Car Co
10th Tank Regiment
51st Infantry Brigade
40th Division
10th Division
6th Division
13th Tank Regiment
58th Infantry Regiment
13th RGC Temp. Division
10th Mortar Battalion
51st Road Const Co
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
22nd Ind. Engineer Regiment
13th JAAF Base Force
11th Army
2nd Ind. Engineer Regiment
6th RF Gun Battalion
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
1st Mortar Battalion
5th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
51st Const Co
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
8th Ind. Engineer Regiment
9th JAAF Base Force
2nd JAAF Base Force
11th Field Artillery Regiment
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
54th JAAF AF Bn

Defending units:
78th Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Corps
100th Chinese Corps
21st Chinese Corps
9th Prov Chinese Corps
28th Chinese Corps
37th Chinese Corps
72nd Chinese Corps
58th Chinese Corps
74th Chinese Corps
73rd Chinese Corps
26th Chinese Corps
70th Chinese Corps
20th Chinese Corps
6th Construction Regiment
99th Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
10th Chinese Corps
5th Construction Regiment
3rd War Area
30th Group Army
25th Group Army
9th War Area
29th Group Army
27th Group Army
32nd Group Army
10th Group Army
19th Group Army
17th Chinese Base Force
56th AT Gun Regiment


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Manila (79,77)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2384 troops, 223 guns, 92 vehicles, Assault Value = 2330

Defending force 48786 troops, 936 guns, 794 vehicles, Assault Value = 1489


Allied ground losses:
125 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
47th Infantry Regiment
67th Infantry Group
21st Ind. Engineer Regiment
4th Division
Tanaka Detachment
48th Engineer Regiment
20th Infantry Regiment
16th Infantry Regiment
66th Infantry Group
24th Infantry Regiment
Kanno Detachment
Kimura Det
48th Recon Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
9th Infantry Regiment
1st Formosa Inf. Regiment
16th Engineer Regiment
16th Recon Regiment
3rd Ind. Engineer Regiment
33rd Division
7th Tank Regiment
25th Ind. Engineer Regiment
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st RF Gun Battalion
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
3rd Mortar Battalion
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
14th Army
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
5th Mortar Battalion
18th Mountain Gun Regiment
2nd Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
31st PA Infantry/C Division
4th Marine Regiment
71st PA Infantry Division
31st PA Infantry/A Division
14th PS Engineer Regiment
86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion
11th PA Infantry Division
91st PA Infantry Division
1st PA Infantry Division
2nd PA Constabulary Division
26th PS Cavalry Regiment
57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
41st PA Infantry Division
3rd/12th PA Inf Battalion
31st Infantry Regiment
45th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
21st PA Infantry Division
194th Tank Battalion
192nd Tank Battalion
51st PA Infantry Division
31st PA Infantry/B Division
61st PA Infantry Div /1
PAF Aviation
202nd PA Construction Battalion
Far East USAAF
200th & 515th Coast AA Regiment
I Philippine Corps
USAFFE
II Philippine Corps
88th PS Field Artillery Regiment
301st PA Field Artillery Regiment
1st USMC AA Battalion
1st PI Base Force
Bataan USN Base Force
201st PA Construction Battalion
803rd Engineer Aviation Battalion
Provisional GMC Gp
Clark Field USAAF Base Force
Manila USAAF Base Force
Cavite USN Base Force /2

Only a matter of time here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Talaud-eilanden (79,97)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 332 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 16

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 9

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 9 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Talaud-eilanden !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: leaders(-)



Assaulting units:
1st Indpt SNLF Coy


All in all a quiet day. Storms kept my A24s etc grounded near T|alaud-eilanden.... Ah well, there's always tomorrow.

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 341
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/12/2010 6:34:57 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Things you just really, really shouldn't see in February 1942... I'm right into his Japan/DEI SLOCs...

In other news, I shot down twice as many planes as I lost today and yet another day of building up my forces in the DEI continues.

I also continue to shuttle fuel and supplies into Oz at a rate of about 100,000 tons of fuel per month and about 100,000 tons of supplies per month.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 5/12/2010 6:35:28 PM >

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

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Post #: 342
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/12/2010 7:43:43 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Things you just really, really shouldn't see in February 1942... I'm right into his Japan/DEI SLOCs...


It's ONLY in your games do we see things like this.

quote:

In other news, I shot down twice as many planes as I lost today and yet another day of building up my forces in the DEI continues.


You should be getting the Dutch P-40s and Hurricanes to make this area an even tougher nut to crack.

quote:

I also continue to shuttle fuel and supplies into Oz at a rate of about 100,000 tons of fuel per month and about 100,000 tons of supplies per month.


All the fuel and supply you can use and transport out from Southern Sumatra is a big help long term. Darwin and Perth should be very full of fuel and enough supply that Australia doesn't need much from the USA to keep her going. You have started to build up a surplus. This has allowed you to focus all of the USA in the Central Pacific.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 343
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/12/2010 8:09:56 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

It's ONLY in your games do we see things like this.


Well, that's only because I'm not bound by the conventional wisdom and actually assess things independently from first principles. Once that's done these sorts of things become blindingly obvious. I'm not sure we've seen raiding TFs simultaneously within 100 miles of Formosa and Japan before though --- and over 1,000 miles behind the Japanese front lines--- so at least it is a unique and interesting gambit. I am particularly looking forward to the, frankly, almost impossible challenge of getting the CLs back to friendly lines.

If this had been a game in which winning was the goal I'd only have sent the DDs as they are much less likely to get nailed by Netties but, since the goal is, as always, to challenge myself and play on the sharpest razor's edge possible I included 2 CLs so that I'd have to account for Netties also. I've also set myself the task of having at least a single TF make it to Manilla for refuelling on the way home. That'll be a huge challenge but, I think, doable. Depending on how bad things look after the ambush is sprung I'll have to decide whether or not that TF includes a CL. A CL would boost the difficulty and be more challenging but the goal here is to pick the most difficult course consistent with success.

Also, let's not forget that absolutely any other player on the forum could achieve this ( and other things ) if they just applied the basics properly. I'm no great player but I do apply the basics well and analyse the situation independently without bias ( as much as possible ).


In any case, no, the USA won't be focused in the Central Pacific.... If you remember the strategic plan I outlined for the first 6 months of the war a while back it ended by stating that once I had the Marshalls I would secure the SLOCs to Oz ( part of the reason I went for the Marshalls ) and shift most of the USN into the southern DEI region where they would seek out and mutually annihilate the IJN surface fleet - as well as preventing his TKs etc from running to southern Borneo/Java to pick up fuel and oil there.

Given the new air model my initial plan of using the USN CVs in the DEI has been abandoned. Instead I will simply move the planes to Darwin and, from there, fly them into the southern DEI region. My plan is the have the RAF and elements of the USAAF defend Sumatra while the USN and RNZAF and RAAF defend the southern DEI along with a couple of P39 squadrons for rear echelon defence.


So far I've seen nothing which invalidates the basic plan. I think it is fair to say that the Japanese have lost the initiative at this stage and, now, can merely go where I'm already prepped for them and ready to repel them. That's fine by me as it is cheaper to defend and hold than to attack in this strategic situation.

I'm also coming to the conclusion that KB's air arm must have been hurt worse than I estimated as I just don't imagine Mike would have held them back when I hit the Marshalls and lingered for so long.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 5/12/2010 8:27:49 PM >

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

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Post #: 344
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/12/2010 8:29:13 PM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

Given the new air model my initial plan of using the USN CVs in the DEI has been abandoned. Instead I will simply move the planes to Darwin and, from there, fly them into the southern DEI region. My plan is the have the RAF and elements of the USAAF defend Sumatra while the USN and RNZAF and RAAF defend the southern DEI along with a couple of P39 squadrons for rear echelon defence.


The new air model seems to significantly decrease the Zero bonus. I'm actually more impressed by your 2:1 loss rates than by getting into the SLOC's. (After all, there shouldn't have been an airstrike on Tokyo in April 1942 either.)

quote:


So far I've seen nothing which invalidates the basic plan. I think it is fair to say that the Japanese have lost the initiative at this stage and, now, can merely go where I'm already prepped for them and ready to repel them.


Well, there's still the cleanup of the Philippines. How well are you digging in inside the India/Burma zone?

_____________________________

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(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 345
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/12/2010 8:50:13 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Well 2:1 is on the low side now. It tends to be more 3:1 most days.... My Chinese Air Force squadrons ( I-15s and I-16s ) have over 30 kills in return for about 5 losses and those guys are just 40 A2A Exp. On the other hand I use them where their abilities enable them to get cheap kills. Where I have 65+ A2A Exp pilots his losses are very one-sided and painful. He has utterly stopped Netty raids south or west of Singkawang which limits my ability to maul them but also allows me free reign to move my shipping. I just ran an unescorted R class BB within 4 hexes of Singkawang on a test run preparatory to future action there and have had over 40 ships in Oosthaven harbour for the past week loading supplies, fuel etc without losing a single ship.

Cleanup in the Phillipines? Well, I have 500 AV digging in behind Level 3-4 forts in Cagayan. Manilla had some sort of supply bug which made its defence untenable.... Cagayan should delay him a little and gut a division though.

India: Who needs to dig in??? I'm attacking, I don't need to dig in in India. I'm adopting the Spartan mentality to city walls. 1 sparkly free "get to ask anything you want and I'll explain it in full detail" to anyone who knows what I'm alluding to AND in which battle the walls were not made from what the Spartans had imagined....



As to being impressed: There's nothing to impress in this game... Just simple, basic play. I get good A2A results because unlike a lot of AAR writers when I got creamed I didn't cry about the game model or blame it on "luck". I asked myself what I was doing wrong, came up with a few options, tested them over the next few days of combat, refined my theoretical model of how the game worked and honed the model until it worked better and better. Over time I've gone from 1:1 exchanges to 3:1 or so exchanges at the present. I expect to maintain a rough 2:1 A2A exchange rate for the next few months but that's just what you get when you apply the lessons drawn from an analysis of the training model, pilot experience differentials and the interface between plane types and missions and how that impacts pilot survivability and use those lessons to create the most advantageous situations under which to engage. Really basic stuff anyone could do.






< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 5/12/2010 8:51:16 PM >

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 346
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/12/2010 10:09:40 PM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock
The new air model seems to significantly decrease the Zero bonus. I'm actually more impressed by your 2:1 loss rates than by getting into the SLOC's. (After all, there shouldn't have been an airstrike on Tokyo in April 1942 either.)

It is quite possible, if you deploy your aviation carefully and the Japanese player advances too fast for his logistics to keep up or allows himself to fall into routine and incorrectly aimed action. In my new PBEM against Yubari he managed to ambush my bombers at least five times during the first week and now Allies have a slight lead in A2A kills, even though my Zeros made mincemeat of Allied fighters almost every time they met so far. Thankfully, most ambushes were against Army squadrons or a relatively low-EXP Kate unit in China. (I paid more attention to Netties' orders.)

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 347
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/12/2010 10:32:40 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Or, if you create a situation in which the IJNAF and IJAAF are forced to either not engage ( a mission win for the Allies ) or engage under unfavourable circumstances ( a kill win for the Allies ). E.g. Right now I am perfectly comfortable transitting unescorted BBs, CLs and CAs and even slow AKs, APs etc within 6 or 7 hexes of Singkawang as I know my actions have drawn the Netties away from there and/or reliably killed them en masse when they've been set to naval attack missions near Sumatra. It is all about shaping.

Shaping the battlefield, it pays off. Ambushes are one thing, transitory risks which can pay off temporarily but shaping the battlefield to your favour is a reliable situation you can keep relying on for additional lop-sided kill ratios. Ambushes work a few times but, eventually, any competent opponent will ready a counter-ambush.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 5/12/2010 10:35:01 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 348
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/12/2010 11:37:25 PM   
Krikke100

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 4/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

India: Who needs to dig in??? I'm attacking, I don't need to dig in in India. I'm adopting the Spartan mentality to city walls. 1 sparkly free "get to ask anything you want and I'll explain it in full detail" to anyone who knows what I'm alluding to AND in which battle the walls were not made from what the Spartans had imagined....



Would that be the whole "Sparta doesn't need city walls because our soldiers kick ass and noone will get close enough to Sparta for us needing city walls" thing? And the battle could be Thermopylae where there is at least some rumour that the Spartans build up the old wall there using the bodies of their opponents.

Very interesting AAR Nemo, I'm enjoying your strategic musings very much.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 349
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/13/2010 12:11:22 AM   
FatR

 

Posts: 2522
Joined: 10/23/2009
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline 		In my experience, ambushes and airfield maneuver aimed at obtaining temporary superiority at key points, as their form, IS the way to create situation where the enemy airforce is reluctant to engage and must operate carefully, and also is forced to concentrate its efforts on knocking out yours. Well, you're using this very method yourself throughout this AAR.

(in reply to Krikke100)
Post #: 350
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/13/2010 12:11:59 AM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline 		Nemo,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121
India: Who needs to dig in??? I'm attacking, I don't need to dig in in India. I'm adopting the Spartan mentality to city walls. 1 sparkly free "get to ask anything you want and I'll explain it in full detail" to anyone who knows what I'm alluding to AND in which battle the walls were not made from what the Spartans had imagined....


surprised you reference Sparta here. Naturally, your nimbus is as helpful to you as Sparta's was for Sparta; but I would have thought you would prefer the principles that started Sparta's downfall at Leuktra courtesy of Epaminondas. In detail, I could mention
voluntarily weakening part of your line to create a Schwerpunkt, expert use of combined arms and innovative approaches on the tactical level (such as a scewed battle line).

Hartwig

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 351
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/13/2010 12:33:49 AM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

As to being impressed: There's nothing to impress in this game... Just simple, basic play. I get good A2A results because unlike a lot of AAR writers when I got creamed I didn't cry about the game model or blame it on "luck". I asked myself what I was doing wrong, came up with a few options, tested them over the next few days of combat, refined my theoretical model of how the game worked and honed the model until it worked better and better. Over time I've gone from 1:1 exchanges to 3:1 or so exchanges at the present. I expect to maintain a rough 2:1 A2A exchange rate for the next few months but that's just what you get when you apply the lessons drawn from an analysis of the training model, pilot experience differentials and the interface between plane types and missions and how that impacts pilot survivability and use those lessons to create the most advantageous situations under which to engage. Really basic stuff anyone could do.


That's a good point Nemo. There is always another way to look at a problem and implement a different tactic to try and change the outcome of future operations. I'm surprised your opponent has not tried to interdict your shipping around Sumatra in other ways. Are all your TF's covered by LRCAP, or are they vulnerable at some point along the route? If my LBA was getting chewed up trying to get to your transports, I'd be working on a way to get around that somehow, forcing your transports to change their route or make it a little more costly. Has he tried mining your routes with submarines? Surface raids? Do you think he's completely withdrawn his LBA, or perhaps shortened the range to try and avoid your CAP? There always seems to be a counter for something, perhaps as you say, he's just too focused on his current operations to put much thought into solving this particular problem.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 352
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/13/2010 12:38:15 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Ah referencing something doesn't require thinking it was a great idea. The Spartans were a great example of the tactical being strong but the strategic being weak. Their citizenship policy and the unwillingness to have a Heinleinian "citizenship through service" policy really meant that strategically they were always going to be incapable of suffering significant losses without a massive bottleneck in the next generation. As time went by the number of citizens available for combat duty decreased and in one of their last great battles they lost 1/3rd of their total male citizenry of military age - since you couldn't be "adopted in" through service this also meant ( objectively speaking and with no moral judgement being rendered one way or the other ) a 1/3rd reduction in the breeders of that generation with a resultant significant decrease in the next generation, increasing the need for leaders to preserve their manpower in future conflicts and a general spiral of losses causing further bottlenecking in current and future numbers requiring ever more caution about any engagement. Eventually this led to them having to rely more and more on "allies" who were less and less cowed by the threat that if they didn't respond to the levy request the Spartans would butcher them. in the end this death spiral led to the demise of Sparta as a power. That is, as the Americans would say, the Cliff Notes version of the story. Not entirely accurate but enough to get the gist across.

As to Epaminondas - I'm not sure there really was an expert use of combined arms then. Certainly he used his skirmishers innovatively ( as far as we can tell --- and there's a lot of supposition ) to mask his deployment until it was too late to be effectively countered ) and that might be what you mean by combined arms but there wasn't really much use of archers, cavalry, chariots etc.

Overall though I would argue that the strategic trumped the tactical ( as I always do since this is what Soviet doctrine says and it is what I adhere to strategically as it is the most cohesive and effective of the simple doctrines --- well, it was before they went in and ripped out the guts of what Tukhachevsky had inculcated ) with Sparta's demise as it does in most things. Sure they lost at Leuktra and were defeated in some later battles by the Athenian use of archers and refusal to accept close combat ( an early example of intentional assymetric warfare ) but I think that what really cost them their political and economic and military position was the simple fact that every time they committed to war in a significant way they lost, in crude terms, the breeders who created their next generation of soldiers ( since they didn't have an "adopt in" policy like the Romans developed ---- and I would argue that the Roman mores which allowed for patricians etc to "adopt in" men of ability who shared their political and social goals was a great boon to Rome. Certainly Rome was very much run by a selection of powerful families and not a meritocracy in the way in which modern people understand meritocracy BUT this "adopting in" was a means by which political families could adopt in those of merit and allowed Rome to gain some of the benefits of a meritocracy whilst still maintaining the power of the various senatorial families etc. In essence the families were a mix of relatives and adopted in individuals of merit who shared the views of the leaders of those families.) and absent an adopt in policy that led to a strategic death spiral in which intervening at a particular point in time almost inevitably lessened the ability to intervene in future. As such there were less interventions, they were less powerful, more casualty averse ( not of the slave groups/helots but certainly of the Spartan citizens ) and, gradually, over time less strong ties/intimidation with/of allies. And we all know the eventual outcome of that.


Krikke100,
Half right. Yes the Spartans believed their armed male citizenry would be their walls. It was also an expression of confidence in the ability of their army but no army can be in two places at once and on one occasion their men were not their walls. What was that occasion and what happened? That's the question which garners the prize ;-) --- or its just a nice ancient history brainteaser... However you choose to view it is fine... Glad you enjoy the AAR though... It is my hope to engender interesting discussion here... Feel free to comment or ask any questions. It can get boring to write an AAR with no feedback or interesting sparking of discussion, debate or, even, rabid disagreement ;-). All of which are welcome here.
Much more welcome than utter agreement actually ;-).

FatR,
Hmm, what you descibe is a component of shaping the battlefield but that's very much a tactical, transitory component. I'm talking more of the strategic shaping of the overall situation and the limiting options ( ideally without the opponent realising it ) such that all options open to him are deleterious. Certainly the tactical ploys you talk about are important but, to be honest, I don't really engage in them very much. I focus on the strategic level since I trust that once the strategic level is properly shaped the operational and tactical stuff will fall into place.

_____________________________

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Well, that's that settled then.

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Post #: 353
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/13/2010 12:57:57 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		SqzMyLemon,

Well, he tried, initially, to batter my defences back with Zeroes and Oscars but I made that a bit too costly for him. He then tried basing Netties at various bases and interdicting the SLOCs with them... The result was that in just under two months of combat ( to the first week of February 1942 ) he has lost over 300 Netties and I've destroyed several raids of a dozen or 20+ planes in their entirety. I think he then decided that he wouldn't waste more Netties for no results.

He seemed to be gathering shipping at Singkawang for raids into the northern Java area around the time I sent my ships into Singkawang and hurt his shipping there and sent a BB back into port with a torpedo hit. I think that, combined with the knowledge that I have torpedo bombers in the DEI, has made him wary of sending BBs and CAs into the waters around Java. Then don't forget that he began the war with 10 BBs and about 12 CAs. He has lost 4 BBs sunk with two more damaged by torpedoes and has lost another 4 CAs. I would imagine that right now he has at most 6 BBs and 8 CAs ready for action. A minimum of 2 BBs will be committed to escort KB and I have pinned down 4 CAs operating near the Marshalls and another 2 CAs operating at Singkawang.

So he could commit a total of 4 BBs and 4 CAs to raiding Java. That would be under my air umbrella and would face a force which was, roughly, equal in strength in terms of naval power. If he made a mistake he could find himself down 4 BBs and 4 CAs in a single afternoon. To be honest with you raiding Java with his BBs and CAs isn't a good option for him since I'd happily swap him 1 for 1.

He HAS raided Balikpapan and areas nearby with a CL TF with a few DDs along as escort.... I have a plan for destroying this fleet but I won't commit to it until I have all of the reinforcements currently on the way to Java in place. I think though that he realises that if he went deeper than Balikpapan that my planes would cause him heavy losses. To be clear in Sumatra I can generate something like 250 torpedo attacks ( with PBY5s counting for 2 torp attacks as they carry 2 each ) per attack phase. That's a lot of firepower.

He has swarmed the area with subs though but my attitude to subs is like my attitude to rain. It is there but there's no need to take especial notice of them/it. Most of the time a very simple dog-leg in their route will save them from his subs.

Lastly I think he is just too focussed on bombing Manilla. Sure his Netties can carry bombs but this is a prime example of why I always argue that just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should. In AE I can tell you my Netties would spend 95% of the game sitting on runways and training. The other 5% they'd be attacking enemy CVs, BBs and invasion TFs. Wasting them on ground attack missions just isn't sensibly IMO.


But overall I don't think he has good options to attack into Oosthaven with his surface fleet or planes. If he raided with the surface fleet he might get in once but then I'd just station the RN there under a 200 fighter CAP ( which I have available on-scene ) and he'd never get in again unless he sent in his BBs and CAs, which would play directly into my hands and would result in the RN losing 4 BBs and a few CAs/CLs but the IJN also losing 4 BBs and 2 to 4 CAs. At that point in time his ability to force an invasion of Sumatra would be pretty much crippled since CLs aren't sufficient to beat off USN/RN BBs or CAs sent in on do or die missions.

I think the counter is assymetrical. He has Singapore, if I were him I would send a fleet around north of Sumatra and down the west coast of Sumatra. I would then capture the Cocos islands and build them up to a Level 2 airfield. I would then base Netties there with some Vals for anti-DD bombardment TF duties. Pack the invasion troops with a couple of good CD units and engineers and within 2 or 3 weeks Cocos Islands would be operational and able to cut off Sumatra from resupply from Capetown, Oz and, in combination with a small, unoccupied base on north-western Sumatra, India.

So, the solution is there it is just an assymetrical solution focussed on effectiveness and efficiency and not, necessarily, hitting a major enemy force concentration head-on. To do that would play into my hands.

Obviously however while I don't think Mike is as indirect or downright sneaky and left-field as I am you can rest assured that the Cocos Islands are garrisoned with forces with significant CD presence and the ability to resist any smallish IJN invasion. I don't think he's that sneaky but I don't play my opponents, I play the game vs my expectation of myself ( not an expectation of what I would do but more an expectation of playing to a high standard and covering all the bases whenever possible.)- I'm not sure that makes sense. I can explain if it is unclear but right now it is 1am and bed beckons

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 5/13/2010 1:07:16 AM >

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

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Post #: 354
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/13/2010 1:06:27 AM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

So, the solution is there it is just an assymetrical solution focussed on effectiveness and efficiency and not, necessarily, hitting a major enemy force concentration head-on. To do that would play into my hands.


Exactly, there are other avenues of approach to cracking this problem, than a direct confrontation against your strength.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 355
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/13/2010 1:16:33 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, just as there are in most games.... YOu can cut SLOCs at many points along the SLOC. You can cut them by bombarding OOsthaven and making the port unsafe, you can cut them by posting subs around Colombo ( where my convoys may refuel ), you can cut them with carrier raids into the Indian Ocean, you can commerce raid with AMCs into the Indian Ocean, you can commit Zeroes to sweeping the skies and lose 200 fighters but gain aerial superiority or you can look for bases which allow you to project power into the SLOCs at different points - ideally points which can't be LRCAPed.

It seems a more efficient solution, especially since the Cocos Islands are a natural outpost for an invasion force coming from Capetown in any case - and fit into a strategic picture in which Ceylon is taken to deny the ability to invade Sumatra from India in '43/'44... It also fits into the whole idea that the actions in early 42 need to fit into the defensive plan of 44.... Hence the Cocos Island gambit appeals to me because it positions the base force in Feb 42 which will be defending that island in late 43/early 44 and thus represents an efficient usage of transports etc temporally speaking.

That's more of an aesthete issue though than something essential but the efficiency does appeal to me.

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)
Post #: 356
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/15/2010 3:36:45 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Feb 24, 42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Daito Shoto at 99,70, Range 12,000 Yards

And we have contact. Unfortunately the IJN covering forces ( 3 PBs ) did an excellent job and the main convoy got away intact.

So, a good effort but poor execution on my part. Next time I send in commerce raiders I won't split them and will have multiple DDs in the TF to give both the ability to dodge Netties and also the ability to kill the defending PBs quickly and get in amongst the xAKs.

Japanese Ships
PB Akitsui Maru, Shell hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
PB Chohakusan Maru, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
PB Nanpo Maru, Shell hits 25, and is sunk
xAK Kazuura Maru
xAK Kumagawa Maru
xAK Keiyo Maru
xAK Tatukami Maru
xAK Okiyu Maru
xAK Nagara Maru
xAK Sanko Maru
xAK Keisho Maru
xAK Matsukawa Maru
xAK Karachi Maru
xAK Ohio Maru
xAK Kuwayama Maru
xAK Siraha Maru
xAK Tokusima Maru
xAK Kosei Maru
xAK Yamagiku Maru
xAK Yuzan Maru
xAK Toyokawa Maru, Shell hits 1
xAK Konan Maru
xAK Somedono Maru
xAK Kosin Maru
xAK Kurohime Maru
xAK Daisin Maru
xAK Ueizuru Maru

Allied Ships
CL Phoenix
DD Benham
DD Ellet




Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 64% moonlight: 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 12,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 12,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages PB Nanpo Maru at 12,000 yards
DD Ellet engages PB Nanpo Maru at 12,000 yards
DD Benham engages PB Nanpo Maru at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages xAK Toyokawa Maru at 9,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages PB Chohakusan Maru at 9,000 yards
DD Benham engages PB Nanpo Maru at 9,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages PB Nanpo Maru at 6,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages PB Chohakusan Maru at 6,000 yards
DD Benham engages PB Nanpo Maru at 6,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages PB Nanpo Maru at 6,000 yards
DD Ellet engages PB Nanpo Maru at 6,000 yards
DD Benham engages PB Nanpo Maru at 6,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages PB Nanpo Maru at 6,000 yards
DD Ellet engages PB Chohakusan Maru at 6,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages PB Nanpo Maru at 6,000 yards
DD Ellet engages PB Nanpo Maru at 6,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages PB Akitsui Maru at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 8,000 yards
PB Nanpo Maru sunk by CL Phoenix at 8,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages PB Chohakusan Maru at 8,000 yards
PB Chohakusan Maru sunk by CL Phoenix at 8,000 yards
CL Phoenix engages PB Akitsui Maru at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
PB Akitsui Maru sunk by CL Phoenix at 9,000 yards
Japanese Task Force Manages to Escape
Task forces break off...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Daito Shoto at 99,70, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PB Akitsui Maru, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Phoenix
DD Benham
DD Ellet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 50,84

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Allied aircraft
PBY-5 Catalina x 3


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
ACM Chiyo Maru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Singapore at 50,84

Japanese Ships
DMS W-13
DMS W-14
DMS W-19
DMS W-18
DMS W-17

Allied Ships
SS Gar, hits 4

Torp hit but no detonation.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Singkawang at 56,87

Japanese Ships
AO Shiriya
TK Nissan Maru

Allied Ships
SS Snapper

Another hit but no detonation. Singkawang is definitely becoming a forward base for the IJN to stockpile fuel and troops etc ready to move on Java/Sumatra.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Babeldaob at 91,96, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PB Edo Maru
PB Kure Maru #5, Shell hits 3
PB Myoken Maru, Shell hits 1
PB Saiko Maru, Shell hits 17, and is sunk

Allied Ships
AMC Monowai, Shell hits 6

This was an ASW TF I figure the Monowai could take on its own. It did reasonably well but AMCs clearly are not even close to DDs in combat power.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Orchid Island at 87,68

This is the air attack from Formosa on my TF parked 92 miles offshore interdicting the straits between Formosa and the Phillipines.

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 15



Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Maury

1 bomb won't seriously compromise Honolulu so I expect to be able to run quickly enough to scape destruction tomorrow.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Babeldaob at 89,97

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 32 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 17 minutes

Japanese aircraft
F1M2 Pete x 9



No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AMC Monowai, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I removed a few hundred IJA and IJN ground attack missions in China and Manilla since they're everyday occurrences.

Morning Air attack on Kwajalein Island , at 132,115

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 37,200 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A5M4 Claude x 3
A6M2 Zero x 8



Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 14
F2A-3 Buffalo x 6
F4F-3A Wildcat x 3
F4F-3 Wildcat x 9


Japanese aircraft losses
A5M4 Claude: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

The CR lies. I lost 2 planes, the IJNAF lost about half of the defending fighters.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kwajalein Island , at 132,115

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 27 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6

Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 2
P-40E Warhawk x 20


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
LB-30 Liberator: 1 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Runway hits 5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Singkawang , at 56,88

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 37


Allied aircraft
B-17D Fortress x 3
B-17E Fortress x 6


No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed

The B17s were forced back. See, a good number of fighters prevents continued bomber activity. Seems pretty realistic to me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kwajalein Island , at 132,115

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 35,400 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes


Allied aircraft
P-38E Lightning x 6
P-40B Warhawk x 33
P-40E Warhawk x 8


No Allied losses
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Babeldaob at 89,97

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Japanese aircraft
F1M2 Pete x 9



No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AMC Monowai, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Tarakan at 67,91

Japanese Ships
CL Nagara
DD Amatsukaze
DD Hayashio
DD Yukikaze
DD Umikaze
DD Yamakaze
DD Tokitsukaze

Allied Ships
SS Trusty

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Manila (79,77)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 72100 troops, 795 guns, 406 vehicles, Assault Value = 2358

Defending force 48745 troops, 935 guns, 794 vehicles, Assault Value = 1486

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 1636

Allied adjusted defense: 2443

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
7987 casualties reported
Squads: 44 destroyed, 358 disabled
Non Combat: 12 destroyed, 502 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 41 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 83 (5 destroyed, 78 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
2679 casualties reported
Squads: 17 destroyed, 76 disabled
Non Combat: 37 destroyed, 269 disabled
Engineers: 43 destroyed, 47 disabled
Vehicles lost 101 (10 destroyed, 91 disabled)

If I had supplies I feel comfortable I could hold out in Manilla for a very long time - in fact if I had supplies I'd currently be reinforcing Mindanao and creating havoc that way. As it is whatever that supply bug was/is has crippled me. Manilla should fall within 7 to 10 days... In terms of the game that is probably for the best as Mike is going to need these troops if he wishes to come after me in Sumatra.

Assaulting units:
66th Infantry Group
Tanaka Detachment
4th Division
48th Recon Regiment
16th Engineer Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
16th Infantry Regiment
20th Infantry Regiment
67th Infantry Group
16th Recon Regiment
Kanno Detachment
24th Infantry Regiment
47th Infantry Regiment
Kimura Det
3rd Ind. Engineer Regiment
1st Formosa Inf. Regiment
21st Ind. Engineer Regiment
48th Engineer Regiment
9th Infantry Regiment
33rd Division
7th Tank Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
14th Army
5th Mortar Battalion
18th Mountain Gun Regiment
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
25th Ind. Engineer Regiment
1st RF Gun Battalion
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
3rd Mortar Battalion
2nd Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
14th PS Engineer Regiment
86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion
31st PA Infantry/B Division
21st PA Infantry Division
192nd Tank Battalion
11th PA Infantry Division
45th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
3rd/12th PA Inf Battalion
41st PA Infantry Division
2nd PA Constabulary Division
31st PA Infantry/C Division
91st PA Infantry Division
1st PA Infantry Division
4th Marine Regiment
31st PA Infantry/A Division
51st PA Infantry Division
71st PA Infantry Division
26th PS Cavalry Regiment
57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
194th Tank Battalion
31st Infantry Regiment
61st PA Infantry Div /1
1st PI Base Force
Bataan USN Base Force
201st PA Construction Battalion
I Philippine Corps
Clark Field USAAF Base Force
PAF Aviation
Manila USAAF Base Force
200th & 515th Coast AA Regiment
1st USMC AA Battalion
Far East USAAF
Provisional GMC Gp
301st PA Field Artillery Regiment
USAFFE
II Philippine Corps
803rd Engineer Aviation Battalion
202nd PA Construction Battalion
88th PS Field Artillery Regiment
Cavite USN Base Force /2


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 86,41

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 5980 troops, 403 guns, 422 vehicles, Assault Value = 2068

Defending force 135923 troops, 1119 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4217

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 16 (1 destroyed, 15 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
98 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Assaulting units:
20th Recon Regiment
3rd NCPC Infantry Brigade
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
5th Armored Car Co
6th Ind.Mixed Brigade
9th Tank Regiment
20th Engineer Regiment
27th Electric Engineer Regiment
7th Ind.Mixed Brigade
3rd Tank Regiment
5th Tank Regiment
37th Division
14th Division
15th Tank Regiment
4th NCPC Infantry Brigade
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
12th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
4th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment
26th Field Artillery Regiment
22nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
4th RF Gun Battalion
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
15th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
9th Ind. Engineer Regiment
10th Mortar Battalion
4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
7th Ind. Engineer Regiment

Defending units:
34th Chinese Corps
57th Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Corps
61st Chinese Corps
84th Chinese Corps
36th Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Corps
47th Chinese Corps
82nd Chinese Corps
29th Chinese Corps
85th Chinese Corps
76th Chinese Corps
7th Chinese Corps
48th Chinese Corps
1st Chinese Corps
38th Chinese Corps
80th Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Cavalry Corps
33rd Chinese Corps
40th Chinese Corps
98th Chinese Corps
41st AA Regiment
39th Group Army
57th AT Gun Regiment
4th Heavy Mortar Regiment
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment
20th Artillery Regiment
36th Group Army
1st War Area
24th Group Army
8th War Area
21st Group Army
18th Artillery Regiment
4th Group Army
1st Artillery Regiment
8th Group Army
3rd Group Army
7th Group Army
22nd Artillery Regiment
7th Artillery Regiment
34th Group Army
2nd Group Army
49th AA Regiment


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Changsha (82,52)

Stalemate.

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2120 troops, 244 guns, 45 vehicles, Assault Value = 4040

Defending force 135623 troops, 787 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4262

Japanese ground losses:
26 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 4 (0 destroyed, 4 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
36 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
51st Infantry Brigade
12th Division
3rd Division
9th Armored Car Co
58th Infantry Regiment
39th Division
34th Division
13th Tank Regiment
10th Division
10th Tank Regiment
6th Division
13th Ind.Mixed Brigade
116th Division
40th Division
11th RGC Temp. Division
13th Division
13th RGC Temp. Division
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
10th Mortar Battalion
11th Field Artillery Regiment
13th JAAF Base Force
9th JAAF Base Force
11th Army
22nd Ind. Engineer Regiment
2nd Ind. Engineer Regiment
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
51st Const Co
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
6th RF Gun Battalion
2nd JAAF Base Force
51st Road Const Co
5th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
8th Ind. Engineer Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion
54th JAAF AF Bn

Defending units:
21st Chinese Corps
70th Chinese Corps
20th Chinese Corps
6th Construction Regiment
73rd Chinese Corps
78th Chinese Corps
37th Chinese Corps
26th Chinese Corps
28th Chinese Corps
10th Chinese Corps
74th Chinese Corps
99th Chinese Corps
72nd Chinese Corps
9th Prov Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Corps
58th Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
100th Chinese Corps
5th Construction Regiment
10th Group Army
32nd Group Army
30th Group Army
25th Group Army
9th War Area
27th Group Army
29th Group Army
17th Chinese Base Force
19th Group Army
3rd War Area
56th AT Gun Regiment


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Nanyang (85,45)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 12967 troops, 112 guns, 69 vehicles, Assault Value = 481

Defending force 39945 troops, 297 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1265

Japanese ground losses:
36 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Assaulting units:
15th Division

1 Division? Hmm, I sniff an opportunity to counter-attack here... I doubt I'll punch the IJA back but I can certainly bleed one divisions badly even with failed attacks.

Defending units:
30th Chinese Corps
89th Chinese Corps
13th Chinese Corps
51st Chinese Corps
55th Chinese Corps
77th Chinese Corps
12th Chinese Corps
7th New Chinese Corps
Jingcha War Area
31st Group Army


Green Xs mark where the two CL-led commerce raiding TFs spent the day of 24th January. As you can see both were 92 miles ( 2 hexes ) from Japanese soil. Hopefully this will draw IJN and IJNAF and IJAAF forces away from the speartip and into securing his SLOCs better.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 5/15/2010 3:38:47 PM >

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 357
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/15/2010 9:50:25 PM   
wpurdom

 

Posts: 476
Joined: 10/27/2000
From: Decatur, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Japanese aircraft losses
A5M4 Claude: 2 destroyed
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Actually 6 IJNAAF planes were downed...


I've seen comments like this before which I don't understand. Can you please explain to me how you can say this with any confidence? I assume it must be based on the combat movie, but why do you think that is more accurate?

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 358
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/15/2010 10:20:05 PM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

Green Xs mark where the two CL-led commerce raiding TFs spent the day of 24th January. As you can see both were 92 miles ( 2 hexes ) from Japanese soil.


There are those who might dispute that Taiwan is Japanese soil. (True, they had controlled it for decades before WWII.) But my hearty salute for a clever deep-penetration raid. What are the chances of the AMC surviving?

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Nemo121)
Post #: 359
RE: When SLOCs go bad.... - 5/15/2010 11:19:18 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		wpurdom,

Well, sometimes in the combat replay you can see 6 planes blowing up but in the combat report it says only 2 were destroyed. I've always found that while the number mightn't be, exactly, 6 planes destroyed that's usually a lot more accurate than 2.


Harlock,
Of course Taiwan isn't Japanese soil. Formosa was, however, regarded as Japanese soil. For the purposes of the AAR I choose not to take too much noticed of modern geopolitical correctness. Its just easier to use the terms which work. In any case whether or not it is or isn't part of the Home Islands it is still a good chokepoint to ambush ships at - which didn't work this time but might next time, when I put more DDs in so I can dodge level bombers more easily

As to the AMC... I'm not sure, I haven't gotten the orders file back yet. Usually I get the movie file one day and the orders file the next.... So it'll be a day before I know.

_____________________________

John Dillworth: "I had GreyJoy check my spelling and he said it was fine."
Well, that's that settled then.

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 360
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