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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/10/2010 4:57:05 PM

ChickenOfTheSea

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

In Hugh Ambrose's companion book "The Pacific", he states that Basilone died from being shot three times, and cites his source as Graves Registration.� I'll take that over Wiki.

I watched Winds of War and War and Rememberance.� Loved Winds of War, thought it was extremely well done... but War and Remembrance sucked horribly.� I thought it was extrememly disgusting how they changed the focus of the story from the Henry's to the Jastrows, and seemed more interesting in making sure that every viewer sees every aspect of Jewish Culture and Life.� Winds of War:� Awesome.� War and Remembrance: Waste of time and space.

Did you read either book?

I've read both, and seen both. They're both well balanced to the books.

I liked both books and both mini-series as well.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/10/2010 4:57:54 PM

Chickenboy

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Outstanding episode 9. Just outstanding. The series keeps getting better and better.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/10/2010 5:57:37 PM

John Lansford

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Agree; the entire movie staff has gone to extreme measures to show just how horrible these battlefields were for everyone. The rain, mud, snipers, filth, decomposing bodies, the gradual loss of humanity, the apathy, hopelessness, incompetent leaders, etc, was all on center stage in Episode 9. I think a large part of that was they focused exclusively on Sledge and his friends in the mortar squad.

Watching how Sledge has had to fight for what's left of his humanity these last few episodes will make how he tries to reintegrate into civilian life all the more interesting in the last episode.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/10/2010 6:04:33 PM

cantona2

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Outstanding episode. Topped the second Peleliu one. Pity they are hitting form as the series draws to a close. I'm going to miss SNAFU, creepy fekker!

< Message edited by cantona2 -- 5/10/2010 6:09:04 PM >

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/10/2010 7:27:02 PM

bspeer

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quote:

Outstanding episode. Topped the second Peleliu one. Pity they are hitting form as the series draws to a close. I'm going to miss SNAFU, creepy fekker!

Agreed! SNAFU is my favorite character. I thought his comments to prevent Sledge from "farming" some gold where quite interesting in #8.

Nine was, no doubt the most poignant and powerful of all so far.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/11/2010 2:48:55 PM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Outstanding episode 9. Just outstanding. The series keeps getting better and better.

It was very good but to me the Peleliu episodes were better...

Leo "Apollo11"

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/11/2010 3:15:31 PM

showboat1

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I have been fairly disappointed with this so far. Band of Brothers was very superior in all aspects.

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Post #: 247

RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/11/2010 9:26:23 PM

The Gnome

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I guess it's the nature of internet boards to grade things on a pass/fail, and usually an extreme pass/fail at that. I give it a solid "very good". I love the accuracy, the attention to detail, the craftsmanship of the editing, filming, and special effects.

I think it stops short of getting top marks for me because of the screenplay. The writers have done a good job telling the facts of the situation, but haven't gotten me inside of the heads of the men that are there. Everyone seems to be at arms length, and I wish I had a little more intimacy with the thoughts of the men. I think part of the problem is the screenwriters were nervous about diverging from two excellent firsthand accounts, but while that gave accuracy, it really kept them from fleshing out some of the characters that were only in the texts as anecdotes.

The other flaw to me is the whitewashing of the japanese. I rarely see the atrocities from the Imperial Japanese forces that affected the Marines to the point where they were taking no prisoners. It was alluded to in a few scenes on Guadalcanal, but really it was easy to miss. I'm not sure if the producers were being PC, or didn't want to affect potential sales in Japan.

Just my 2 cents

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/17/2010 10:29:59 AM

John Lansford

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I watched Episode 10 last night; we got to see where Robert Leckie had been spending his time since Pelieliu, but focused primarily on Sledge and his friends, Snafu and Burgin, as they mustered out of the Marines and returned to civilian life. Basilone's wife was shown briefly as well, meeting his family.

The sad part of this episode is that at that time, no one understood what PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) was and how it affected long term combat veterans like Sledge. While Leckie appeared to reintegrate himself right back into his old pre-war career, Sledge had some serious survivor's guilt and couldn't see how he fit into civilian life now. Perhaps it was because he didn't have an established career prior to the war, and as he told the woman trying to find out if he had any useful training in the military, all the Marines had done was taught him how to kill Japs, and they did a good job of that.

I liked at the end where they showed the actor as the real life person, and then showed his wartime photograph. Nearly all of them had remarkably striking similarities, and they also briefly mentioned what they did after the war. Snafu, for example, never spoke to any other Marine for 35 years until reading Sledge's book "With the Old Breed on Pelieliu and Okinawa"; Sledge was one of his pallbearers at his funeral. Leckie and Sledge both died in 2001, but Burgin and a couple others of the secondary characters are still alive.

Good wrapup of the series, IMO.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/17/2010 2:44:41 PM

Chickenboy

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I agree, John. Good wrapup of a very good series.

Sledge's story was particularly poignant. I was particularly touched by his father's steadfast support, especially when Sledge broke down completely on their hunting trip.

Showing Sledge walking through the fields, playing with a flower was well done too-he wound up becoming a PhD in Biology and teaching. Guess he finally found some comfort in the natural world.

I found Snafu fascinating. I'd like to read more about him in particular. Does "With the Old Breed" talk much about him in an epilogue?

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/17/2010 3:06:32 PM

John Lansford

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I don't think either Sledge or Burgin mentioned Snafu a lot about what he did after the war, in either one of their books. I agree about Snafu; you get the impression he was a loner before the war and felt the Marine Corps was his family, but when it came time to leave the train he walked away without a backwards glance.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/17/2010 4:25:16 PM

Chickenboy

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You know, I felt something different there.

I 'got' that Sledge had a comaradarie with Sledge and (runner?), but no others in the unit. He debated waking Sledge and paused whilest leaving-debating whether to wake his friend and tell him goodbye. I think he felt more for Sledge than he did anyone else or the Corps itself. Witness his protestations in Episode 7 when Sledge tried to harvest "Jap Gold". Snafu didn't want Sledge to be like himself and put himself out to prevent Sledge's fall from grace.

Yeah, I thought Snafu was probably a loner before, but with a peculiar Southern mystique. He showed his human side to very few, very seldom. The actor that portrayed him did a great job bringing this out.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/17/2010 5:10:25 PM

Terminus

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I can't help but wonder if I'd have liked The Pacific better if I hadn't seen Band of Brothers first. Don't get me wrong, I didn't DISLIKE The Pacific, but Band of Brothers was better, in my opinion.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/17/2010 6:45:14 PM

Ketza

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The end of the series made me think about all the guys�I was in the service with and that feeling of fellowship you had with the members of your unit.

I was never in combat so�I can only imagine how much stronger those bonds must be for those who fight together.

Some of my fondest memories in life were of basic training and later ROTC in college. Relationships built in the civilian world just arent the same.

I found Snafu to be the best acted and most interesting character of the series. He had a simplicity about him yet every now and again said�or did something that ran deep.�

< Message edited by Ketza -- 5/17/2010 6:46:31 PM >

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/17/2010 7:12:29 PM

Capt Cliff

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I watched the last episode last night. All in all the series is good or very good but not excellant.

The combat in episode 9 was very disjointed, like where were they fighting and for how long. Some maps would have been good to show the grind the Marines had to go through on Okinawa, there were maps for Guadcanal and Pelielu. Oh one thing ... at the end of episode 9 it shows B-29's over flying Okinawa. I don't think B-29's operated out of Okinawa. Poetic license?? The left the dihedral off the wings of the graphic models ... DOH!

Episode 10 was very good with the veterans going home to a world that's no longer the same. Audie Murphy nailed it when he called it "To Hell and back!" I am relieved that they finally mentioned John Basilones Navy Cross, but really only in passing at the very end. Putting a name to the face to the veterans that added to the narrative was a ok touch, but it did cause some confusion as you watched the series.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/17/2010 8:59:04 PM

JWE

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus
I can't help but wonder if I'd have liked The Pacific better if I hadn't seen Band of Brothers first. Don't get me wrong, I didn't DISLIKE The Pacific, but Band of Brothers was better, in my opinion.

I do agree Termy. BoB was a look at a unit, through its formation, its deployment, and its use through the entire continuum of the European Theater. Those guys were in almost every action that was important to US Arms. There is a continuity there that resonates. Winters is the commander (that we all wish we had), and Guarnere, Talbert, Toye, are the NCOs (that we all wish we had), that made it happen.

The Pacific is disjoint, because it has to be. Nobody was in every action. If you followed any unit, almost 2/3 of the war would be lost, so the producers went for abstraction. Can't fault them, because they are not talking to you or me, but to the lumpen proletariat (who really needs to know this stuff). I'm pretty comfy with what they did and how they did it. A bitch of a job that they did pretty well.

Occasionally, God puts a maggot in the brains of people like Tom Hanks, or Clint Eastwood, and something wonderful happens; a look at a real personal slice of duty and death. That's what these mini-series are all about, really - people - and what they do in the face of 'duty'.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/17/2010 9:05:27 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Witness his protestations in Episode 7 when Sledge tried to harvest "Jap Gold". Snafu didn't want Sledge to be like himself and put himself out to prevent Sledge's fall from grace.

I read Sledge's book a couple of months ago. I'm not going back to check it, but as I recall it was not SNAFU, but an unnamed Navy Corpsman who talked Sledge out of that.

I think they just used artistic license.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/17/2010 9:12:59 PM

cantona2

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I always get a knot in my throat when i see endings like the ones last night, happened at the end of BoB as well. Overall BoB is far superior but I agree totally with John's assessment. The PTO was different to the ETO, biggest one was the fact that in Europe there was a continuous land frontline, therefore much easier to get a more 'linear' story. A story about real people, what they do when put into these situations and I always wonder what would happen if a similar situation arose today. Would the mindest of today's youth be like theirs? Probably not.

If the adage that old soldiers never die is true then all of these men are immortalised somewhere, may their souls rest in the peace they fought for and they so deserve.

< Message edited by cantona2 -- 5/17/2010 9:13:37 PM >

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/17/2010 10:00:17 PM

treespider

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I agree with John and Cantona's assessment --- it is easier to tell the tale of 1 cohesive unit during essentially 1 year versus three unrelated persons over the course of 4 years.

To me "The Pacific" was essentially a collection of vignettes meant to portray the mood and theme of the war rather than the plot of the war..

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/17/2010 10:44:47 PM

John Lansford

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The Pacific wasn't about the war in that theater; it was the story of three men who were in the same division but had very different experiences, in the larger framework which was WWII. The PTO was different from the ETO; Sledge's older brother pointed that out last night, in fact. He was in an armored division and sympathized with Eugene when he mentioned there were no women anywhere near him almost the whole time he was out there. Eugene's older brother commented that at least there were times when he could go on leave back to Paris, but Eugene had no such opportunity. He was either fighting, training, or recovering on some marshy tropical island.

I'm not going to get into the argument over whether BoB was better than the Pacific. IMO I feel they both portrayed the experiences of men in their respective theater, but they were completely different. That makes the shows different so it's harder to make a comparison.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/17/2010 10:51:10 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE
That's what these mini-series are all about, really - people - and what they do in the face of 'duty'.

That's the only reason I watch them. I couldn't care less about the strategic viewpoint, I want to see men and how they cope with the horrors of war.

I marvel at the capacity of man and mankind to do unspeakable things to one another, sometimes flourishing in the act as men. I marvel at how men can EVER go back to 'normal' life after being so debased, so fouled and so violently treated. I don't know what combat is like and probably never will, but these graphic depictions of man, stripped of all pretense would come pretty close, I bet.

I appreciate when a show can take me on that tour as few films have ever done so. "The Pacific" did this, so did "BoB".

Different war, different people, different focuses for the series, different topography, different series. Both were well done.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/17/2010 10:53:40 PM

Terminus

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I liked the scene when Leckie gets out of the cab in front of his home and tries to pay the cab driver.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/18/2010 1:04:38 AM

LST Express

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For some reason that I'll have to think about, I liked the non-combat or mostly non-combat episodes better than the combat ones. It did seem to get better as it went along.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/19/2010 2:20:49 AM

jomni

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I have also realized and appreciated the human aspect of the series.
It's not your typical war movie focused on the action and the fighting itself.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/19/2010 6:22:54 PM

m10bob

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

I have also realized and appreciated the human aspect of the series.
It's not your typical war movie focused on the action and the fighting itself.

...and yet, it did not turn into "The film which shall not be named", (which was altogether fiction, fluff, annoying AND irritating.)

I am positive if people had not seen BoB (as a measuring stick), and had been limited to that other nasty piece of Ed Woodian nonsense, more people would rate The Pacific higher..Much Higher.

< Message edited by m10bob -- 5/19/2010 6:25:46 PM >

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/19/2010 6:58:40 PM

morganbj

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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

...and yet, it did not turn into "The film which shall not be named", (which was altogether fiction, fluff, annoying AND irritating.)

Sadly Ben Afleck has been signed to do the prequel about the events leading up to Pearl Harbor. Something about the RAF.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/19/2010 7:01:20 PM

Grit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE
That's what these mini-series are all about, really - people - and what they do in the face of 'duty'.

That's the only reason I watch them. I couldn't care less about the strategic viewpoint, I want to see men and how they cope with the horrors of war.

I marvel at the capacity of man and mankind to do unspeakable things to one another, sometimes flourishing in the act as men. I marvel at how men can EVER go back to 'normal' life after being so debased, so fouled and so violently treated. I don't know what combat is like and probably never will, but these graphic depictions of man, stripped of all pretense would come pretty close, I bet.

I appreciate when a show can take me on that tour as few films have ever done so. "The Pacific" did this, so did "BoB".

Different war, different people, different focuses for the series, different topography, different series. Both were well done.

Deep and well written.

Many people would have us believe soldiers fight for their country, family, or hometown. They fight to stay alive and for the guys next to them. The series depicted that well.

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/19/2010 7:20:40 PM

Capt Cliff

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It would have been a nice touch if at the end of each episode, like in BoB, there was a synopsis of what went down. Show how many MoH were given, Navy Crosses, etc. ... I believe the 1st Marine Div got it's Southern Cross Stars on it Blue Diamond shoulder badge for "the Canal". The story was also about the 1st Marine Division too ... from Guadacanal to Cape Glouscester to Peleliu to Okinawa. IMHO

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RE: The Pacific (TV Show) - 5/19/2010 7:53:03 PM

anarchyintheuk

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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

I have also realized and appreciated the human aspect of the series.
It's not your typical war movie focused on the action and the fighting itself.

...and yet, it did not turn into "The film which shall not be named", (which was altogether fiction, fluff, annoying AND irritating.)

I am positive if people had not seen BoB (as a measuring stick), and had been limited to that other nasty piece of Ed Woodian nonsense, more people would rate The Pacific higher..Much Higher.