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Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/29/2010 1:38:29 PM   
Q-Ball


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I have looked at the Tony, and with PDU's on, I don't think the Ki-61 should be built at all. I wonder if others have drawn the same conclusion. This is totally different from the WITP Tony v Tojo debate.

First, you will produce the TOJO in quantities anyway, because you get it 5 months sooner.

The Ki-61-1a is roughly equivalent in terms of fighting performance to the Ki-44-IIa. It does have armor, but has 1-hex less range.

The Ki-61-1b (43-9) give you a bit more firepower v. the Ki-44-IIa, (2 of the MGs are upgraded), still has armor, and less range.

The Ki-44-IIc (44-3), catches up to the Tony with Armor and Firepower, but still has better range. Of course, by this time you are probably thinking about the FRANK as a replacement for both

The problem is SERVICE and PRODUCTION. The Tony all the way through has a Service Rating of 3; this to me negates any slight combat advantages, as planes sitting on the ground don't buy you a whole lot.

For PRODUCTION, the Tony is a one-way street; you have to produce a unique engine and airframe family. The Tojo has the advantage of using the Ha-35 Engine, the most common one used, allowing you to shift production easily between plane types. Managing airgroups is also easier, when you standardize on fewer plane types.

The primary combat difference is between 9/43 and 3/44, when the Tony version is a better plane than the Tojo. But not wildly better.

Given this, I am thinking of cancelling the Tony Program completely. What do other think?

SIDE NOTE: The Ki-44-IIa should NOT be upgraded to the IIb. Don't forget JFBs to put your IIa Factories on "KEEP", otherwise they will start producing the IIb model. The only upgrade on the IIb is the addition of a 40mm cannon that can't hit the broadside of a barn. Take a pass.

OTHER SIDE NOTE: I do think you should continue Oscar production, as the Oscar has a specific role: Longer-Range escort for Betties. Escorts get slaughtered anyway, so Oscar is fine for this role, and saves IJN pilots for the CVs.



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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/29/2010 4:03:45 PM   
CapAndGown


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I think the general consensus has already reached the conclusion that Tony's should not be built, mainly because of the engine.

I am not terribly interested in Oscars, even as escorts for Betty's. OTOH, the Oscar IIb has armor. It is under-armed, so it will probably not shoot much down, but its survivability may prove to be a point in its favor. I am going to build some and see how they do versus the Tojo's. Plus, there is a Sentai in Manchuria that is split up between Ida's and Nate's. This group will upgrade to the Oscar IIb. This is one way to get an extra fighter Sentai.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/29/2010 4:11:28 PM   
Swenslim

 

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I dont see any problem to produce 30 Tony's per month for HI  and Palembang interceptor squadrons.

And I think you should produce 8-12 a/c per months Tojo 2b version for future anti bomber squardons.

Agree about Oscars my pbem expirience tells thet Oscar 2a with 50+ exp pilots fights on equal terms with Hurricanes.

< Message edited by Swenslim -- 5/29/2010 4:14:44 PM >

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/29/2010 5:14:26 PM   
CapAndGown


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One other thing I would note: you may wish to think about going all in on Franks. They have a service rating of 3. Instead, you may want to think about the Tojo IIc. It also has armor and is available at about the same time. The drawback of the Tojo is that it has 4x12.7mm MGs rather than the Frank's 2x20mm, 2x12.7mm. OTOH, the Tojo has a fantastic climb rate.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/29/2010 5:45:44 PM   
Rainer79

 

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I am running a limited production run of Tonies in my game against castor and I am quite happy with them.

So far they have been mostly employed against the 4e menace (with pretty good results) as the primary opposition has an even worse service rating. Once early '43 runs around this will likely change as back-to-back bomber attacks will become a lot more common though. BTW their armor also means they do not die quite as horribly as the Tojos against P-38 strato-sweeps.

Also you should be aware that the Tojo should be using the Ha-34 engine and not the Ha-35 one. Once this is corrected at least the common engine advantage will evaporate.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/29/2010 5:48:44 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

I think the general consensus has already reached the conclusion that Tony's should not be built, mainly because of the engine.

I am not terribly interested in Oscars, even as escorts for Betty's. OTOH, the Oscar IIb has armor. It is under-armed, so it will probably not shoot much down, but its survivability may prove to be a point in its favor. I am going to build some and see how they do versus the Tojo's. Plus, there is a Sentai in Manchuria that is split up between Ida's and Nate's. This group will upgrade to the Oscar IIb. This is one way to get an extra fighter Sentai.




you don´t have to shoot much down when escorting bombers, it´s enough if you damage your enemies fighters as this means the same as shot down for this one day as they are taken out of the combat. While the Allied fighters often score a kill with a long burst, the Japanese aircraft damage 3 times more fighters in total it seems, means in a tactical aspect, the Japanese do better IMO.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/29/2010 5:50:28 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer79

I am running a limited production run of Tonies in my game against castor and I am quite happy with them.

So far they have been mostly employed against the 4e menace (with pretty good results) as the primary opposition has an even worse service rating. Once early '43 runs around this will likely change as back-to-back bomber attacks will become a lot more common though. BTW their armor also means they do not die quite as horribly as the Tojos against P-38 strato-sweeps.

Also you should be aware that the Tojo should be using the Ha-34 engine and not the Ha-35 one. Once this is corrected at least the common engine advantage will evaporate.



you should be sending me a turn instead of surfing on the forum...

edit: it just arrived...

< Message edited by castor troy -- 5/29/2010 5:52:27 PM >


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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/29/2010 5:58:11 PM   
CapAndGown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer79

Also you should be aware that the Tojo should be using the Ha-34 engine and not the Ha-35 one. Once this is corrected at least the common engine advantage will evaporate.


There will still be a common engine advantage since the Ha-34 is used for Helens, and you should be building lots of Helens, both as bombers and then, when it becomes available, the Helen transport.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/29/2010 6:08:35 PM   
Dora09

 

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I have to agree that the Ki61 is worthless in this game (they were quite good in WitP).
It seems strange to me that the Ki61 have such horrible manuvre numbers while the Ki44 is better? The Ki44 far less manouverable than the Ki61 in real life.

I also feel that the Ki84 is nerfed a bit, the Ki44IIc is better statistically if you consider service rating.

I don't agree that you should avoid the Ki44IIb. They have made up the bulk of my IJA fighter arm up into 1944 and have done okay, definately better than Ki44IIa and Ki61s.

The simple fact is that because altitude is the ONLY thing that matters in this game ALL japanese fighters except the NIK1 are basically useless in 1943 when the p47 shows up regardless of pilot skill. The only reason the N1K1 is good is because it is the only Jap fighter that can fly at 40K (eventhough in real life the N1K1 was terrible at high alt.).

Intially I thought the alt bands were interesting but now they just make air combat entirely one dimentional (literally). IMO it needs to be overhauled big time.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/29/2010 6:19:17 PM   
crsutton


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What we have now is the "tojo gap"  where it can be produced in tremendous numbers and owns the skies from mid 1942 until mid 1943. There are just not enough P38s or coursairs to counter it and the P47 is the first real fighter in numbers that can go head to head with it. So far in my game, the tojo has totally owned my P40s. I see it as a big advantage for the Japanese player. I see no reason for the Japanese player to produce the tony. The difference between a service rating of 1 and a service rating of 3 is very significant. Just ask any allied player who is trying to keep buffalos and lightnings up in the air.

For me, with seemingly all of my air attacks going in uncoordinated, the tojo just eats my fighters and mediums up forcing me to rely more on my heavies to carry the weight. I really see no need for the tony.

Too bad, as the tony was a important Japanese fighter, and it would be fun to see it in the game. Unless things change I don't think we will see it much at all.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/29/2010 6:40:07 PM   
Dora09

 

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I don't know, maybe I am just not that good but I put all my energy into making Ki44s early and they did do well at first but I would never say they dominated. My opponent did well against them, using heavies. Corsairs and the early p47s show up early enough to make them useless pretty fast.

The problem is that air combat seems to one sided either way, you are either getting massacared or doing the massacaring. There is never an in between. The only true domination I had was using N1K1s against Hellcats. But again, pilot exp, seems to not make any difference, only max alt. All the other stats don't matter. Because only one stat matters there are landslide victories every time. It just seems absurd to have p47s sweeping near 50 thousand feet all the time.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/29/2010 7:40:48 PM   
CapAndGown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dora09

I don't know, maybe I am just not that good but I put all my energy into making Ki44s early and they did do well at first but I would never say they dominated. My opponent did well against them, using heavies. Corsairs and the early p47s show up early enough to make them useless pretty fast.

The problem is that air combat seems to one sided either way, you are either getting massacared or doing the massacaring. There is never an in between. The only true domination I had was using N1K1s against Hellcats. But again, pilot exp, seems to not make any difference, only max alt. All the other stats don't matter. Because only one stat matters there are landslide victories every time. It just seems absurd to have p47s sweeping near 50 thousand feet all the time.


Well, then, put in a house rule limiting sweep and CAP altitudes. In my game with witpqs we now have a HR rule limiting sweep and CAP altitudes to 30,000 feet.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/29/2010 9:02:01 PM   
Miller


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Producing any Jap fighter with a service rating of 3 is a waste of time, most will die on the ground.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/30/2010 11:28:02 AM   
FatR

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer79
Also you should be aware that the Tojo should be using the Ha-34 engine and not the Ha-35 one. Once this is corrected at least the common engine advantage will evaporate.

Not entirely, as Helen, which should be your main Army bomber from late 1942, uses the same engine.

Personally, I want to produce Tonies in limited numbers for rear areas defense squadrons. There are likely to fly from excellent airfields at major bases, partially negating bad service rating and meet mostly 4E raids, against which armor is a major benefit. Tojo should be the main Army fighter troughout the middle of the war, though. And important even late in the war, because it is better than Ki-100s or late-war Ki-43s, while Ki-84 is crippled by its service rating too.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/30/2010 11:34:22 AM   
FatR

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

What we have now is the "tojo gap"  where it can be produced in tremendous numbers and owns the skies from mid 1942 until mid 1943. There are just not enough P38s or coursairs to counter it and the P47 is the first real fighter in numbers that can go head to head with it.

Hurricane IIc beats Tojo, and I believe IIb can fight it to a draw (there was not much need to test this, production of IIc model exceeds losses in my game). Lightnings beat it too, because they have higher ceiling, thus winning the stratosweep game.




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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/30/2010 1:12:07 PM   
ny59giants


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quote:

Hurricane IIc beats Tojo, and I believe IIb can fight it to a draw (there was not much need to test this, production of IIc model exceeds losses in my game). Lightnings beat it too, because they have higher ceiling, thus winning the stratosweep game.


I'm on the receiving end of these strato-sweeps. I then have unescorted B-17s coming in under 10,000 to attack troops. I can outproduce the Allies, so I can win that battle and I need heavier flak concentrations to offset the low level bombers. This is my first game as Japan that has gone past 1 Feb 42, so I'm learning a lot of what "not" to do.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/30/2010 1:17:00 PM   
CapAndGown


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This thread has been helpful. I have changed my mind about the Tony. I have now decided to invest in making the Tony Ic model. It has a service rating of 3 but has two 20mm cannons. It is available 43/9. It will upgrade to the Id model on 44/4 and that has a service rating of 2. For engines, I have switched the Kayaba Argus factory (still R&D) over to the Kawasaki Ha-60 (still R&D, but will arrive 43/2).

< Message edited by cap_and_gown -- 5/30/2010 1:18:16 PM >

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/30/2010 7:14:33 PM   
Swenslim

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

What we have now is the "tojo gap"  where it can be produced in tremendous numbers and owns the skies from mid 1942 until mid 1943. There are just not enough P38s or coursairs to counter it and the P47 is the first real fighter in numbers that can go head to head with it. Too bad, as the tony was a important Japanese fighter, and it would be fun to see it in the game. Unless things change I don't think we will see it much at all.



And still Japan side dont have enough pilots and dont have enough fighters to fight on equal with Allies from the begining of 1943.

Allies produce in 1943 such numbers of fighters :

45 F4F2 , AT 4/43 they start to produce 130 F6F3

30 f4u-1 and then 78

25 f-39D
65 P40K
20 F-39G
18 Spitfire
42 Kittyhawk
36 Hurricanes

and around 35 chinise and canada fighters.

At sum it is around 440-450 fighters per month

And around 40 unstoppable B-24.


For example in my pmeb game 12/42 I produce 112 A6M2, 112 Oscar 2a, 72 Tojo, 24 A6M3a, 13 Ki-45a and soon will be 38 Tony.

Around 350 fighters per month.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/30/2010 8:45:56 PM   
Dora09

 

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I'd advise against the Ki61-Ic. Look at the Max alt and the manouver rating. It will likely get torn up by all the p47 and Corsairs you will meet. If you do build them in numbers let me know if it works, I'll try it in my next game.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/30/2010 8:51:45 PM   
FatR

 

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Another small reason to produce limited numbers of Tonys (20/month) is that their engine factory starts fully repaired (as all engine factories), so you'll need to waste HI repurposing it.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/30/2010 9:35:50 PM   
Miller


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

This thread has been helpful. I have changed my mind about the Tony. I have now decided to invest in making the Tony Ic model. It has a service rating of 3 but has two 20mm cannons. It is available 43/9. It will upgrade to the Id model on 44/4 and that has a service rating of 2. For engines, I have switched the Kayaba Argus factory (still R&D) over to the Kawasaki Ha-60 (still R&D, but will arrive 43/2).



Why? The Tojo IIc is better than any model of Tony in the game. Better top speed, climb, manouver, range and most importantly the service rating of 1. The only advantage of the late Tony's is armament.......which cannot be brought to bear whilst they are sitting on the ground damaged.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/30/2010 10:07:43 PM   
CapAndGown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller
Why? The Tojo IIc is better than any model of Tony in the game. Better top speed, climb, manouver, range and most importantly the service rating of 1. The only advantage of the late Tony's is armament.......which cannot be brought to bear whilst they are sitting on the ground damaged.


Except for the Oscar IIb, the Tony get armor earlier than anyone else. The problem with the Oscar, though, is that it only has 2x12.7mm while the Tony has those 2x20mm. The Tojo IIc gets 4x12.7 and armor, so I am going to mainly focus on those. But I want to see if I can get some bomber killers. The Tojo might be OK, but having some 20mm would be better. Also, the Tony IId has a service rating of 2, not 3.

Basically, I am going to focus on building the Tojo IIc once it becomes available. But I am also going to build some Oscar IIb's, mainly because there is a bomber sentai in Manchuria that will upgrade to it, but I would also like to see what its armor can do. I will also build some Tony IIc's mainly as anti-bomber planes since they will upgrade to the d model for free. I am also going to build some Frank's, again as anti-bomber planes.

I can envision having the high service rating, but heavily armed planes back behind the front lines to guard against long range bomber strikes, while the Tojo's man the front lines as anti-fighter planes, or perhaps a mix of both.

We shall see. Can't hurt to build some and see what they will do. If they don't work out I'll just switch the factories over to something else. Supply is not the issue I am worry about, but rather the time needed to adjust production. Generally, this is why I like to have lots of little factories rather than a few big ones.





< Message edited by cap_and_gown -- 5/30/2010 10:10:07 PM >

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/30/2010 10:37:35 PM   
Miller


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I understand your logic in using the Tony as a rear area base fighter, but even running them at only 50% CAP will result in at least half of the sqd grounded at any one time, unless you overstack on aviation support at the bases in question.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/30/2010 11:06:42 PM   
Schatten

 

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the armor plates will reduce their loses v. bombers, anyway they still remain ineffective against espcially 4-E as most of them dont come to shoot but go dmg bevre and dive away.

try it with Oscars IIb, Zeros A6M5, Nick´s fighter Bombers and some other....its the same thing in 43 as in 42...armor reduces losses but they still come mostly not to shoot even with 30-40 v. 3-6 4-E due to the bad working combat routines i think.

after all the Plane that has shoot down most of the 4-E are the A6M5 (late middle 43) and it has no armor after all^^
but most dont means reall much but lets say 2-4 per Week (daily combat) against nothing from the other planes so its after all ineffective.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/30/2010 11:10:39 PM   
CapAndGown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

I understand your logic in using the Tony as a rear area base fighter, but even running them at only 50% CAP will result in at least half of the sqd grounded at any one time, unless you overstack on aviation support at the bases in question.


One thing you can do that I found out in managing my Emily's is to have reserve planes. When one plane is grounded for maintenance, it seems that one of the reserve planes gets used. Or, at least, I think that is what I am seeing.

Also, for the IId Tony, with its service rating of 2, I don't think it will be that bad. My Nick's are able to maintain 50% CAP levels without any problem.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/31/2010 7:51:13 AM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Swenslim


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

What we have now is the "tojo gap"  where it can be produced in tremendous numbers and owns the skies from mid 1942 until mid 1943. There are just not enough P38s or coursairs to counter it and the P47 is the first real fighter in numbers that can go head to head with it. Too bad, as the tony was a important Japanese fighter, and it would be fun to see it in the game. Unless things change I don't think we will see it much at all.



And still Japan side dont have enough pilots and dont have enough fighters to fight on equal with Allies from the begining of 1943.

Allies produce in 1943 such numbers of fighters :

45 F4F2 , AT 4/43 they start to produce 130 F6F3

30 f4u-1 and then 78

25 f-39D
65 P40K
20 F-39G
18 Spitfire
42 Kittyhawk
36 Hurricanes

and around 35 chinise and canada fighters.

At sum it is around 440-450 fighters per month

And around 40 unstoppable B-24.


For example in my pmeb game 12/42 I produce 112 A6M2, 112 Oscar 2a, 72 Tojo, 24 A6M3a, 13 Ki-45a and soon will be 38 Tony.

Around 350 fighters per month.



and only the Lightning, Corsair and the 18 Australian Sptifires are useful against the Japanese fighters. The rest will just die against Tojos. The Hellcat is useful too of course, it can´t be used for land based squadrons though. You produce more than 200 land based fighters that can all go higher than 80% of the Allied fighters and that´s what makes them killers.

Can´t see much of a reason why Japan shouldn´t maintain air superiorty until mid/late 43 until real numbers of Corsairs and P-47 show up.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 5/31/2010 7:55:28 AM >


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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/31/2010 7:52:54 AM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cap_and_gown

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller
Why? The Tojo IIc is better than any model of Tony in the game. Better top speed, climb, manouver, range and most importantly the service rating of 1. The only advantage of the late Tony's is armament.......which cannot be brought to bear whilst they are sitting on the ground damaged.


Except for the Oscar IIb, the Tony get armor earlier than anyone else. The problem with the Oscar, though, is that it only has 2x12.7mm while the Tony has those 2x20mm. The Tojo IIc gets 4x12.7 and armor, so I am going to mainly focus on those. But I want to see if I can get some bomber killers. The Tojo might be OK, but having some 20mm would be better. Also, the Tony IId has a service rating of 2, not 3.

Basically, I am going to focus on building the Tojo IIc once it becomes available. But I am also going to build some Oscar IIb's, mainly because there is a bomber sentai in Manchuria that will upgrade to it, but I would also like to see what its armor can do. I will also build some Tony IIc's mainly as anti-bomber planes since they will upgrade to the d model for free. I am also going to build some Frank's, again as anti-bomber planes.

I can envision having the high service rating, but heavily armed planes back behind the front lines to guard against long range bomber strikes, while the Tojo's man the front lines as anti-fighter planes, or perhaps a mix of both.

We shall see. Can't hurt to build some and see what they will do. If they don't work out I'll just switch the factories over to something else. Supply is not the issue I am worry about, but rather the time needed to adjust production. Generally, this is why I like to have lots of little factories rather than a few big ones.







Service rating of 2 isn´t really a problem for the Japanese, is it? Most Allied fighters got service rating of 2 and that´s no problem at all, so I guess it isn´t for the Japanese either.

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RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/31/2010 8:14:24 AM   
FatR

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

and only the Lightning, Corsair and the 18 Australian Sptifires are useful against the Japanese fighters.

I believe I should restate, that Hurricane IIc is superior to Japanese fighters. Its trump card is disparity in effective firepower. When a Hurry fires at a Tojo, that's a kill at least half of the time. When a Tojo fires at a Hurry, then maybe one time out of ten it can score an outright kill, instead of damage. And pilots in fighters forced to land due to damage rarely die or get wounded, compared to pilots whose fighters exploded in the sky. As a result, my Hurricane squadrons are ace schools.

And even Warhawks E can perform decently when defending their airfields, if given experienced pilots. As a result, in my game against ny59giants (now in September 1942) the airpower is now in balance: neither side managed to knock out a major airbase of the other for months, Japanese lead in A2A count by a significant margin, and in overall air score slightly, but Allied aviation now contributes much more to ground combat (well, outside of China and my remaining pockets in DEI).

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 28
RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/31/2010 9:07:37 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

and only the Lightning, Corsair and the 18 Australian Sptifires are useful against the Japanese fighters.

I believe I should restate, that Hurricane IIc is superior to Japanese fighters. Its trump card is disparity in effective firepower. When a Hurry fires at a Tojo, that's a kill at least half of the time. When a Tojo fires at a Hurry, then maybe one time out of ten it can score an outright kill, instead of damage. And pilots in fighters forced to land due to damage rarely die or get wounded, compared to pilots whose fighters exploded in the sky. As a result, my Hurricane squadrons are ace schools.

And even Warhawks E can perform decently when defending their airfields, if given experienced pilots. As a result, in my game against ny59giants (now in September 1942) the airpower is now in balance: neither side managed to knock out a major airbase of the other for months, Japanese lead in A2A count by a significant margin, and in overall air score slightly, but Allied aviation now contributes much more to ground combat (well, outside of China and my remaining pockets in DEI).




Give me a Sentai of Tojos and I beat your two squadrons of Hurricanes at will. The Tojo can go HIGHER (most important factor), is far faster and has a better man rating. The gun value is good enough to down any Allied fighter if the Tojos get the dive and fire from behind. While you see one out of ten times a kill I would say the fire from behind achieves a kill every second burst. When not firing from behind (no matter for what side) you most times get damaged aircraft. But the dive for the Tojo (or Lightning as Allied example) most often results in the dive.

Warhawks? The E-model? Yeah, when the enemy is escorting bombers and the Warhawks are higher up then everything is fine. But I´m always talking about fighter vs fighter, aka "The sweep" and the P-40E is a dog in 12/41 as well as in 12/42 if there are any around (I still field hundreds of them in 12/42 due to lack of other fighters). Same goes for the K-model. While the stats look good, it´s a lost option as it can´t go higher than the E-model (29.000ft) which means EVERY Japanese fighter (even the early Zero model) can go higher and will dive on them, resulting in massacres.

And no, I´m not on the losing end in total aircraft lost, in fact, as the Allied player I´ve been in the lead in aircraft destroyed since mid 42 but that doesn´t change the fact that I do exactly what I´ve done in WITP as the Japanese player, staying away from Corsairs for example. In AE I stay away with my fighters from Tojos on sweep. I stay away from Oscars on sweep and I stay away from Zeroes on sweep. Doing this with aircraft that can´t go higher than their enemies. If I have fighters that can go higher then there´s no need to stay away. Edit the ceiling of my P-40E to 40.000ft and voila, it´s a Tojo killer, it´s a Zero killer and it´s an Oscar killer.

But you can adopt and that´s what both sides are doing in my PBEM. We don´t attack bases directly, but both are picking off leaking Cap exclusively. And both sides do this with sweeps at the fighters´ ceilings when we know that we´re going to face only enemy fighters that will be flying lower.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 5/31/2010 9:08:55 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to FatR)
Post #: 29
RE: Cancelling the Tony Program - 5/31/2010 11:30:50 AM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline
Hello Chris, why not just agree with your opponent to limit max altitude to say 30k feet for any fighter ops?

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 30
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