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Sudden interest in WWI - 6/5/2010 6:42:47 AM

V22 Osprey

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LOTS of World War I games coming out recently. Could it be that World War II is finally played out? That it's time to give WWI some credit?

< Message edited by V22 Osprey -- 6/5/2010 6:43:50 AM >

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/5/2010 7:20:08 AM

MikeBrough

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Checking my bookshelf, I've read more about WW1 than WW2 over the past couple of years.

Perhaps you're right and we've become too familiar with the Second World War.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/5/2010 2:52:23 PM

wodin

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My bookshelf\Cupboard is 90% WW1...

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/5/2010 3:02:02 PM

MajFrankBurns

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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

LOTS of World War I games coming out recently. Could it be that World War II is finally played out? That it's time to give WWI some credit?

It's about time, Now I want a FPS with command control of a squad or platoon or company for WWI. I want to play The Lost Battallion to.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/5/2010 10:29:49 PM

V22 Osprey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

My bookshelf\Cupboard is 90% WW1...

As MikeBrough said, World War II is so familiar to us that there is little to read as we see WWII stuff everyday. Not much is said about World War I, so you HAVE to read SOMETHING to find ANY information on WWI.

Heck, most people don't even know what the Battle of the Somme is.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/5/2010 11:52:38 PM

Joe D.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

... Heck, most people don't even know what the Battle of the Somme is.

The Brits still do; one of the Black Adder series was based around that war.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/6/2010 12:20:20 AM

Wolfe1759

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

... Heck, most people don't even know what the Battle of the Somme is.

The Brits still do; one of the Black Adder series was based around that war.

and there is the Cenotaph, war memorials in most towns and villages and the Royal British Legions poppys on Remembrance Day lest we forget.

Though the final reel of Black Adder Goes Forth was rather poignant.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/6/2010 7:03:04 AM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

... Heck, most people don't even know what the Battle of the Somme is.

The Brits still do; one of the Black Adder series was based around that war.

and there is the Cenotaph, war memorials in most towns and villages and the Royal British Legions poppys on Remembrance Day lest we forget.

Though the final reel of Black Adder Goes Forth was rather poignant.

Warspite1

My 10-year old daughter has just done some WWI history at her primary school. They concentrated on four individuals - two of which they studied in some depth - Thomas Highgate, the first soldier shot for cowardice in 1914 and Walter Tull, the first black officer in the British Army, killed in 1918. Interesting - and heartbreaking - stories.

As part of their learning the children were taken on a school trip to Westminster Abbey to see the tomb of the unknown warrior and to see the Cenotaph last November - I was able to accompany them as an adult helper and a very humbling experience it was I must say.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/6/2010 10:24:24 AM

MikeBrough

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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
My 10-year old daughter has just done some WWI history at her primary school. They concentrated on four individuals - two of which they studied in some depth - Thomas Highgate, the first soldier shot for cowardice in 1914 and Walter Tull, the first black officer in the British Army, killed in 1918. Interesting - and heartbreaking - stories.

As part of their learning the children were taken on a school trip to Westminster Abbey to see the tomb of the unknown warrior and to see the Cenotaph last November - I was able to accompany them as an adult helper and a very humbling experience it was I must say.

A half-formed thought begins to take shape in the Brough noggin. I believe many schools use the same approach to history, focussing on the experiences of individuals rather than the big picture. The human perspective is a great way to grab the kids' attention but the individual stories chosen can often be non-representative. The examples you gave, the first black officer and the first man shot for cowardice, cannot be said to be mainstream experiences for the millions of men who fought in the trenches.

My son's primary school class did WW1 a couple of years back and he came away from those lessons believing that nearly everyone on the front line was likely to be killed. It was quite entertaining to do the research with him to show him that this wasn't the case.

Do you think that the kids' perception of historic events is shaped by this off-centre approach? Will any future reading they do be influenced by this slightly-leftist agenda, with everything they read being filtered through this initial lens?

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/6/2010 11:47:23 AM

Joe D.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeBrough

A half-formed thought begins to take shape in the Brough noggin. I believe many schools use the same approach to history, focussing on the experiences of individuals rather than the big picture ...

That's OK for younger student, but somewhere along the time-line they will have to integrate this into historical perspective, or else risk losing that "big picture" in its entirety.

And if that happens, the result will be watching college students telling Jay Leno that America fought the British in WW I.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/6/2010 11:52:08 AM

Joe D.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfe

... Though the final reel of Black Adder Goes Forth was rather poignant.

I still recall that last episode, also the scene where the Brit General is sweeping projected Allied casualties off the map w/a dust pan!

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/6/2010 12:14:10 PM

warspite1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeBrough

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
My 10-year old daughter has just done some WWI history at her primary school. They concentrated on four individuals - two of which they studied in some depth - Thomas Highgate, the first soldier shot for cowardice in 1914 and Walter Tull, the first black officer in the British Army, killed in 1918. Interesting - and heartbreaking - stories.

As part of their learning the children were taken on a school trip to Westminster Abbey to see the tomb of the unknown warrior and to see the Cenotaph last November - I was able to accompany them as an adult helper and a very humbling experience it was I must say.

A half-formed thought begins to take shape in the Brough noggin. I believe many schools use the same approach to history, focussing on the experiences of individuals rather than the big picture. The human perspective is a great way to grab the kids' attention but the individual stories chosen can often be non-representative. The examples you gave, the first black officer and the first man shot for cowardice, cannot be said to be mainstream experiences for the millions of men who fought in the trenches.

My son's primary school class did WW1 a couple of years back and he came away from those lessons believing that nearly everyone on the front line was likely to be killed. It was quite entertaining to do the research with him to show him that this wasn't the case.

Do you think that the kids' perception of historic events is shaped by this off-centre approach? Will any future reading they do be influenced by this slightly-leftist agenda, with everything they read being filtered through this initial lens?

Warspite1

I know where you are coming from. The First World War is a recent introduction for year 5's at my daughters primary school. This may explain why my daughter was told that the First World War started because Germany invaded Poland......and that is not a joke I'm afraid.

I did point out to one of the teachers that I would have liked other individuals' stories highlighted - such as Noel Chavasse V.C and Bar

. But I guess I am flogging a dead horse with that one - I suppose that information is for me to fill in.

However, I would add that the Walter Tull story is incredible - and would recommend this to anyone. As with all teaching, any political slant can be put on a subject, and sadly a leftist slant is almost guaranteed in British schools. In the case of Tull, it does not really matter, his story is desperately sad and at the same time very inspiring. Apparently a great footballer, his professional career with Tottenham Hotspur was cut short through racism, and his life, as a half caste orphan in Edwardian Britain was far from easy. Yet despite everything thrown at him, Walter Tull volunteered to fight for his country. His ability was recognised by those he fought with and this recognition gave him the opportunity to train as an officer - despite the regulations of the time forbidding such a thing.

Walter Tull is a true British hero in my opinion if celebrating his unique story helps in any way to eradicate racism, then that can only be a good thing

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 6/6/2010 1:29:25 PM >

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/6/2010 2:20:53 PM

SlickWilhelm

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For me, WWI has always been the most interesting war to study...for many reasons. It is without doubt the most pointless war, with no real reason for it to be fought. And yet, it was perhaps the most inevitable war. The pre-war period is fascinating to study. The events leading up to it, the characters involved.

Once the war itself begins, the difference between the first 6 months of fighting and then the next four years of fruitless trench warfare is amazing. The strategies and tactics being far outpaced by the lethality of the weapons...heartbreaking.

Many firsts, too. Air warfare, gas warfare, submarine warfare.

The are many excellent books out there to read on WWI, but to me the most involving and poignant are the series of books by Lyn Macdonald, who tells the British soldiers experience of the war in their own words from their letters and her own personal interviews with them.

WWI and the period leading up to it is arguably one of the most fascinating periods in human history.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/7/2010 8:01:32 PM

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For me I started out reading Infanty Attacks (Rommel) and Achtung Panzer (Guederian) some 10 years ago, hoping to learn things about ww2 really, but ended up realizing how interesting ww1 was and buying books on that war instead.

Infantry Attacks is still a favorite. Bruce Gudmundsson's Stormtroop Tactics is another (he also co-authored On Infantry, that has several interesting chapters on ww1 infantry tactics)... Other good that comes to mind are Command or Control? (Martin Samuels), Loos 1915 (Nick Lloyd), The Somme (Prior & Wilson).

The official histories (British ones are available as reprints) are surprisingly easy to read and full of details. Must-haves for wargamers imo. You can also find the Canadian and Australian official histories online, but I haven't had the time to read those yet. There is a reprinted book on the New Zealand Division that I enjoyed a lot as well. The Australians and Canadians also have their archives of ww1 war diaries available for free online, which are extremely good to have when researching a battle that involved units from those countries (the UK archive online is much smaller and each document very expensive, so it is much more difficult to browse for information).

I also like some books that read more like novels, like Barbara Tuchman's Guns of August, Ernst Junger's Storm of Steel, but I mostly prefer books that are less about people and more about battles. (Currently reading The great push; an episode of the great war - MacGill, Patrick downloaded from archive.org though and it is very nicely written and well worth the download time; that site also have many many other interesting ww1 books and documents).

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/7/2010 10:46:17 PM

wodin

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I have a massive WW1 book collection nad if you want to know my favourites which are a must buy for all of you....

The German Army series by Jack Sheldon.....

Make sure you buy the ones titled The German Army etc etc...There is Vimy, Cambria,Somme and Passhendale..

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jack-Sheldon/e/B001JP0RCG/ref=ntt_athr_dp_pel_1

Fantastic series all furst hand accounts taken from the Regimental histories that where written in the 1920's...

I hope his next will be released soon....can't wait to see which part of the War he will cover..Verdun or the March 1918 push I hope.

< Message edited by wodin -- 6/7/2010 10:52:07 PM >

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/7/2010 10:52:06 PM

Titanwarrior89

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Has anyone ordered the new HPS game on the war and played it yet. Wanted a review on it.....Is it worth buying?

Note: Also a new released movie of ww1 aircombat "The Red Baron". Watched it last night. Good movie. British made movie I think. Special effects and acting were good. It was released on DVD.

< Message edited by Titanwarrior89 -- 6/7/2010 11:00:25 PM >

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/8/2010 5:57:34 AM

pelle75

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Yes, I have the Sheldon book on the Germans at Somme, plus two of the Battleground Europe series books he (co)authored about Germans at .... Very good books as well. I'm still hoping for softcover versions of his other books.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/9/2010 2:18:35 AM

Mike Dubost

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Nearly 10 years ago, while looking for a book in my local public library, I happened to spot volume 1 of My Experiences in the World War by Pershing. It is a truely fascinating look at his view of events. He was a stubborn, opinionated man, and that is what makes his memoirs so interesting.

He was no diplomat, but he reallly gives you a look at the inner workings of the AEF from his perspective.

At about the same time, I also was given a copy of Yanks as a gift. This book by John Eisenhower focuses mostly on the raising, trainiing, and organization of the AEF. Given that it has little information on the other Allied and Associated Powers, it is still very good within those limits.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/9/2010 2:39:41 AM

wodin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pellen

Yes, I have the Sheldon book on the Germans at Somme, plus two of the Battleground Europe series books he (co)authored about Germans at .... Very good books as well. I'm still hoping for softcover versions of his other books.

I only have a few hardback books and this series is most of them because I believe they are worth the extra.

I strongly suggest you go buy the others even in hardback...you wont be disapointed.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/9/2010 10:19:22 PM

basujunha0806

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i prefer ww1!

its have great sound quality!

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/11/2010 3:45:59 AM

Capt. Harlock

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A fairly good one-volume book is "A Short History of the Great War", although it was published only a few years afterwards and is of course slanted towards the British side. Still, it covers not only the Western and Russian fronts, but Italy, the Balkans, and the Middle East. And being out of copyright, it's available as an e-book for the ideal price of free at:
http://manybooks.net/titles/pollardaetext04shogw10.html

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/13/2010 12:44:14 AM

Kubel

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I'm a huge WW1 fan. Never enough games on the subjet imho. I toured some Canadian Expeditionary Force battle locations back in 1991 with 3 friends. Best holiday I ever had.
Wodin I'm going to get a Jack Sheldon book on the subject, looking forward to the read.

Cheers

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/13/2010 12:56:14 AM

wodin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kubel

I'm a huge WW1 fan. Never enough games on the subjet imho. I toured some Canadian Expeditionary Force battle locations back in 1991 with 3 friends. Best holiday I ever had.
Wodin I'm going to get a Jack Sheldon book on the subject, looking forward to the read.

Cheers

Rememebr to get one of the ones that says The German Army......their the ones to buy...I think you can get the Somme book in softback...but the whole series is fantastic...once you've bought one you will buy the lot...then wait with baited breath for Mr Sheldon to right more.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/13/2010 1:04:05 AM

wodin

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Peter Bartons Panaromic photo book on the war is amazing...they are the photos taken by the recon observers...well worth the money...its on sale reduced from �50 to �28..

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Battlefields-First-World-General-Military/dp/1845298845/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276387375&sr=8-3

He also does seperate ones covering specific parts of the waestern front...I will buy those aswell.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/13/2010 1:57:24 AM

Perturabo

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I think that WWI would be much more popular if there would be more low-level wargames based on that period.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/13/2010 11:56:18 AM

Dixie

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The Great War doesn't really lend itself to small scale games, otherwise we'd probably have seen more of them before. It also seems to be a more sensative subject than WW2 until recently.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/13/2010 2:21:21 PM

Perturabo

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I suspect it's more because game developers don't research the small scale part of WWI.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/13/2010 2:53:08 PM

MikeBrough

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And a lack of sexy large-scale armour battles. No panzers means no interest for a lot of people.

The fools.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/13/2010 3:16:58 PM

wodin

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WW1 would be great at squad\section level....its a misconception that it wouldn't. The reason not many games have been made for WW1 at this level is due to the misconception.

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RE: Sudden interest in WWI - 6/13/2010 3:40:08 PM

Perturabo

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I think it's mainly because most of people think that WWI was all about marching into machinegun/artillery fire in a parade formation.