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Guys - 6/12/2010 5:28:43 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		from some of the posts in the AAR's

this is Alpha, most of what you are seeing, you wouldn't see from other games, these are test games, so we can find and work out bugs and "issues", you are seeing the warts before they are removed

any and everything we see, is reported and talked about, and most times Gary is right on top of it, making corrections

Jon's AAR is even ruffer, he is geting changes 2 to 3 times a week, in the middle of his game, and to be fair, most of them need a restart for them to take full effect, Jon's game is no where close to what mine I was showing, and mine is no where close to what the game is today

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RE: Guys - 6/12/2010 7:46:10 AM   
Neal_MLC

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		Thats all fine and dandy, but is it in Beta yet?

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no matter where you go, there you are

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Post #: 2
RE: Guys - 6/12/2010 8:36:50 AM   
ool


Posts: 470
Joined: 12/25/2007
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		I don't care how long it takes, just get it as right as you can. There will always be things that slip through the cracks. thats what patches are for. I truly enjoyed WIR. I'm equally certain I will get many years of enjoyment from this new product.

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Post #: 3
RE: Guys - 6/12/2010 8:37:59 AM   
ool


Posts: 470
Joined: 12/25/2007
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		You remind me of kids in the car during family vacation. Are we there yet?

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Post #: 4
RE: Guys - 6/12/2010 10:36:03 AM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		Your patience will be rewarded.

The issue is that this game takes time to play. The PBEM turn I just did for Don took me 5 hours, and his will take the same - multiply this by 200+ turns for the full campaign......

Our current test is focussed on the first winter rules, which means we have to play at least 36 turns, which we are going to try to get through in the next 3-4 weeks: not easy for me with the world cup and the cricket on TV (Afraid cricket comes ahead of WITE!)

Personally, I think at least one full 1941 campaign needs to be playtested H2H before the game is launched, but it is not my decision.





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Post #: 5
RE: Guys - 6/12/2010 4:43:52 PM   
Neal_MLC

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 2/2/2010
Status: offline 		I feel like a kid on a cross country drive waiting for this game to be released. 

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Post #: 6
RE: Guys - 6/12/2010 5:03:43 PM   
AZKGungHo


Posts: 509
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		Hey Big,

Five hours? Is that what you'd estimate to be the average time it takes to play one turn at this point?

WOW - that's HUGE!  I'm loving everything I'm seeing here, but have to admit that's very daunting to me. I'm not sure I could hack that since I rarely have more than an hour or two at most at a time to play.


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"In Arduis Fidelis"
Louie Marsh

Books:
Once A Raider… http://tinyurl.com/89mfnnk
Getting Real - http://tinyurl.com/7zhcjlq
Websites:
www.usmcraiders.com
discipleup.org

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Post #: 7
RE: Guys - 6/12/2010 5:15:20 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		No, it will not be the average, but when the whole front is moving, and the positioning of your HQs in relation to your supply net is so important, you have to take time to get it right. Once the front stabilises, and only parts of it are active, you will probably get them done in a couple of hours. Mud turns can probably be done in a hour or less.



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Post #: 8
RE: Guys - 6/12/2010 6:26:40 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		it depends on playstyle and what you are doing/trying to do

the opening move for the German is the key, so that turn always takes a lot longer then a normal turn later on


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Post #: 9
RE: Guys - 6/12/2010 6:46:00 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Hell I can look at the screen for 5 hours before making my moves. It really depends on the depth of your thoughts...

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AWD Beta tester
WBTS Alpha tester
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Post #: 10
RE: Guys - 6/12/2010 7:41:36 PM   
AZKGungHo


Posts: 509
Joined: 6/7/2006
Status: offline 		Well if it depends on the depth of your thoughts then I'm quite sure my turns won't take long at all!!!

Thanks for the input guys.  I'm sure I'll buy this one regardless, but am curious. Hopefully I'll actually be able to play it, not just look at it and sigh!



_____________________________

"In Arduis Fidelis"
Louie Marsh

Books:
Once A Raider… http://tinyurl.com/89mfnnk
Getting Real - http://tinyurl.com/7zhcjlq
Websites:
www.usmcraiders.com
discipleup.org

(in reply to PyleDriver)
Post #: 11
RE: Guys - 6/12/2010 7:48:37 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		at the Start, I think this will be like WitP, or EDtBTR, when you first start the game, and look at the map and the units, you going to say, oh my, now what

it is going to be massive, and you are not going to be sure what you want to do, or is this the best thing to do, or should wait, should I do this, or do that

and the borders between the Army Groups are even worse, should I move NE, or should I help with what is going on SE, or should I just go for it and head E

there is a lot to see, and a lot to do and think about




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Post #: 12
RE: Guys - 6/12/2010 8:07:50 PM   
wurger54

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ool

You remind me of kids in the car during family vacation. Are we there yet?



Guilty as charged!

(in reply to ool)
Post #: 13
RE: Guys - 6/13/2010 10:38:34 AM   
SGHunt


Posts: 873
Joined: 1/20/2010
From: Lancaster, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

Afraid cricket comes ahead of WITE!


That is the correct ordering of things!

(in reply to karonagames)
Post #: 14
RE: Guys - 6/13/2010 5:50:32 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

at the Start, I think this will be like WitP, or EDtBTR, when you first start the game, and look at the map and the units, you going to say, oh my, now what

it is going to be massive, and you are not going to be sure what you want to do, or is this the best thing to do, or should wait, should I do this, or do that

and the borders between the Army Groups are even worse, should I move NE, or should I help with what is going on SE, or should I just go for it and head E

there is a lot to see, and a lot to do and think about





The exact problem I'm having with BftB....especially with orders delay and realtime...those opening moves take time and confidence in spades...

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Post #: 15
RE: Guys - 6/13/2010 7:59:37 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		The first turn is always intimidating as you have to figure out what your general plan is. It is helpful to review the plan historically so at least you have a basic understanding of the initial campaign's intent. That first turn is always the longest. Once you get a couple of turns under your belt and the events begin to unflod, you start getting a better picture of the operational picture and what you want to accomplish. In these campaigns, you are inherenting someone else's plan and that takes awhile to figure out. My German turns take 30-60 minutes. Soviet turns take longer obviously because they have many more units. One way to alleviate this is Army Group sized scenarios which are in the works.

Trey


quote:

ORIGINAL: AZ Gung Ho

Hey Big,

Five hours? Is that what you'd estimate to be the average time it takes to play one turn at this point?

WOW - that's HUGE!  I'm loving everything I'm seeing here, but have to admit that's very daunting to me. I'm not sure I could hack that since I rarely have more than an hour or two at most at a time to play.




_____________________________

"You want mercy!? I'm chaotic neutral!"

WiTE Scenario Designer
WitW Scenario/Data Team Lead
WitE 2.0 Scenario Designer

(in reply to AZKGungHo)
Post #: 16
RE: Guys - 6/13/2010 8:41:40 PM   
Sabre21


Posts: 8231
Joined: 4/27/2001
From: on a mountain in Idaho
Status: offline 		I can easily spend 6 -7 hours either as the Germans or the Soviets in the 41 Campaign up thru about turn 10. By then it gets a little quicker, 3 - 4 hours for me, then by the time snow hits it's back up to 6+ hours per turn, especially as the Soviets since by then there are so many armies. As the Soviets, you are also plotting your revenge pretty early so that when blizzard hits on turn 25 you are well prepared to cause the Axis some major grief. I actually like playing the Soviets in the 41 campaign the best of all, but playing as the Germans in that campaign is pretty good too :)

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Post #: 17
RE: Guys - 6/13/2010 9:39:21 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		It's really up to your play style and how much micro management you want to do. The fact that Trey can make turns in 30-60 minutes while Andy can spend up to 6 hours on a turn is proof of this. For me, I'm much closer to Trey than I am to Andy in the time I put into a turn.

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All understanding comes after the fact.
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Post #: 18
RE: Guys - 6/13/2010 9:56:38 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		I like to rethink my thinking, and when I drink I think better...lol...

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Jon Pyle
AWD Beta tester
WBTS Alpha tester
WitE Alpha tester
WitW Alpha tester
WitE2 Alpha tester

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 19
RE: Guys - 6/13/2010 11:32:10 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		I am somewhere in between, in 1941 as the Soviets it can take me anywhere between 2-6 hours to do a turn. In 1943 it takes me about 1-2 hours to do a turn, but I have been running 1943 since Feb. The problem the Soviets have in 1941 can be enormous and micromanaging all the support levels and units can eat up hours if you want to (or need) squeeze as much out of your units as possible. As the Germans for me it does not seem to take as long (maybe shave an hour off each) except for the 1942 turn as the Germans in every test I have done seems to take a very long time, but that could because one has to ask himself the question of which strategy to try in 1942 and then how best to do it.

For 1941 it's pretty straight forward for the Germans as far as which strategic move to make, a) shoot for Leningrad and then Moscow, b) push on Leningrad, Moscow and Rostov, or c) go for the southern Donbas. Or some variation on that or those themes, but once you commit then it flows pretty good. Usually the Germans will concentrate on managing their 'vaunted' panzer corps. The Soviet player has to regroup, breakout, setup for defense and plan for a later autumn turns offensive, while at the same time being constantly harassed, encircled and trying to pull your irons out of the fire while sticking the German with what you can.

Your mind set is also set by the scenario you play. For example in 1941 as the Germans you feel as though your trying to beat not only the Russians, and your opponent but also the OKH. Likewise as the Soviets your trying to survive 1941, hold off your opponent and set him up for an offensive in the fall. In 1943 as the Soviets is more about grinding down the Germans and pushing them back to Berlin faster then the Soviets did, as the Germans it trying to stave off defeat and get a draw.

It's really quite insane how realistic this feels at times, I mean I am writing this memorandum to you from my deep dark damp bunker somewhere on the eastern front I can hear the shell fire as they close in, or am I in my freaking basement and that shell fire is really the sump pump going out, I can hear a junior officer screaming at me, but wait no, who is that women over there and what the hell is she saying, it's in English...?

Lost I have all touch reality with...




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Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

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Post #: 20
RE: Guys - 6/14/2010 12:31:13 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		dlazov66,

Have you read Paul Carell's 'Hitler Moves East' and 'Scorched Earth' ? They have that you-are-really-there-under-fire-and-taking-casualties flavor. Unfortunately, they only tell the German side of the war.
They may be out of print.

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Post #: 21
RE: Guys - 6/14/2010 1:34:07 AM   
Zorch

 

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline 		dlazov66,

Whoops! I just read the book thread.
Thanks for enlightening us on 'Paul Carell'.

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Post #: 22
RE: Guys - 6/14/2010 9:29:40 AM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
Joined: 7/10/2006
From: The Duchy of Cornwall, nr England
Status: offline 		Micro-management is my middle name!



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Post #: 23
RE: Guys - 6/14/2010 9:32:58 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Paul Carell was there aswell I remember reading somewhere...with the german army I think.

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Post #: 24
RE: Guys - 6/14/2010 9:56:40 AM   
Rotherman

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 1/11/2009
From: Rotherham England
Status: offline 		Sing to the tune of "I want it all" by Queen.

I WANT IT ALL!
I WANT IT ALL!
I WANT IT ALL!
I WANT IT NOW!

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Post #: 25
RE: Guys - 6/14/2010 11:01:39 AM   
Northern Star


Posts: 1881
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

It's really up to your play style and how much micro management you want to do. The fact that Trey can make turns in 30-60 minutes while Andy can spend up to 6 hours on a turn is proof of this. For me, I'm much closer to Trey than I am to Andy in the time I put into a turn.


I always do as much micro management as I can. I want to control every detail carefully, and I can spend hours like Andy to complete a turn in a big campaign like 41.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPV9JWWtOQ0

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Post #: 26
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