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RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/29/2010 9:48:07 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		I'm curious, how do these AI matches play out? Anything vaguely resembling historical results? Is the game tempo reasonable from the logistical standpoint? (I can be persuaded on this point, I just don't think the evidence is there for it one way or the other judging from the posted AARs.)




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Post #: 841
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/29/2010 10:44:46 PM   
Apollo11


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Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

I'm curious, how do these AI matches play out? Anything vaguely resembling historical results? Is the game tempo reasonable from the logistical standpoint? (I can be persuaded on this point, I just don't think the evidence is there for it one way or the other judging from the posted AARs.)


AI vs. AI matches show pretty historic results and frontlines (give or take)...


Leo "Apollo11"

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/30/2010 11:25:18 AM   
Kharkov

 

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Joined: 6/7/2003
From: Birmingham
Status: offline 		Looking at the various AARs, its apparant that the scale of the game is immense and the sheer amount of units involved could be a little overwhelming. Is they any way to give a corps/army a target/goal and let the AI handle those units under the command?

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Post #: 843
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/30/2010 11:34:40 AM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kharkov

...Is they any way to give a corps/army a target/goal and let the AI handle those units under the command?


Nope.


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Post #: 844
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/30/2010 1:05:22 PM   
ComradeP

 

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quote:

the sheer amount of units involved


Actually, from what I'm seeing in the screenshots, the amount of Axis units seems manageable compared to other wargames. The Soviets would have plenty of units late in the war, but many will be corps sized, which also cuts down on the total amount of units.

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Post #: 845
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/30/2010 1:10:28 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		oh, there going to be many, many units, in my other post I just added more details on how to manage them easier

really, I think the HARD part for the newer player is going to be the HQ, keeping the C&C lined up and in order, the rest will fall right into place

(LOL, when you open up the 43 campaign, I think my eyes glaze over (of course as the Russian, I start to drool)




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RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/30/2010 2:12:36 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		No chance at AI control but we are looking at cutting down the campaign scenarios into bite size chunks. I have a Retreat from Leningrad scenario that covers Army Group North from Jun '44 until the end of the year. We are also looking at doing other similiar, Army Group sized scenarios created from the master camapign scenarios once we lock that data down.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kharkov

Looking at the various AARs, its apparant that the scale of the game is immense and the sheer amount of units involved could be a little overwhelming. Is they any way to give a corps/army a target/goal and let the AI handle those units under the command?



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Post #: 847
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/30/2010 4:17:45 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		I'm not tring to be rude guys. But questions about the in's and out's of the game on how things work are better answered by others. I just would like as little clutter as possiable in my AAR... As far as the big guns effecting combat, I not sure, all I know is they kick ass...BTW theres a short delay in my AAR as the last update had a bug and there working on it ...I'm like Oddball in Kelly's Hero's, "I just drive it man, I don't make it work".

< Message edited by PyleDriver -- 5/30/2010 4:22:06 PM >

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Post #: 848
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/30/2010 7:05:53 PM   
Beetle

 

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Status: offline 		I'm like Oddball in Kelly's Hero's, "I just drive it man, I don't make it work".

Great quote PD.

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Post #: 849
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/31/2010 2:22:21 PM   
SGHunt


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quote:

I have a Retreat from Leningrad scenario


Drool - Tiger battalions as Fire Brigade Units. The Courland pocket offensives... Excellent, el hefe - I think short historical campaigns like this will be ideal for starters and for shorter PBEM games too.

Which others are you considering - I suggested Mars on another thread? This would seem to be the right sort of scale for a 'small' scenario.

S

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Post #: 850
RE: War in the East Q&A - 5/31/2010 3:18:07 PM   
Great_Ajax


Posts: 4774
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Alabama, USA
Status: offline 		I also have a Courland Pocket Scenario and several others are on the drawing boards but haven't been built yet since we have to lock down the campaign data first. I think the goal is to have the 1941 campaign broken down into North, Center, and South areas and run up to the winter of 1941. We also want to make a Fall Blau, Barbarossa, and Bagration scenario as well but again, none of these are created yet. Additionally, there is a Uranus scenario and my Velikye Luki scenario that is used as a tutorial.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: von Jaeger

quote:

I have a Retreat from Leningrad scenario


Drool - Tiger battalions as Fire Brigade Units. The Courland pocket offensives... Excellent, el hefe - I think short historical campaigns like this will be ideal for starters and for shorter PBEM games too.

Which others are you considering - I suggested Mars on another thread? This would seem to be the right sort of scale for a 'small' scenario.

S



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Post #: 851
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/3/2010 6:05:15 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		From '43 AAR:

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

The soviet can use AP to build units in or adjacent to urban areas. admittedly they might only be emergency gap fillers that won't last long due to low morale and experience, but if they survive they can evolve into Guards Corps.

The current (subject to testing/change) Soviet reinforcement schedule is slightly abstracted in that up to November 1941 any units that the soviet loses are automatically replaced and added to the reinforcement schedule 4-27 turns after the were destroyed. After November 1941, only units that were transferred from other theatres - the so called "Siberians" and units such as the Polish Army that came into existence late in the war are on the reinforcement schedule. if you want to replace your losses after November 1941 you will have to use APs.

<snip>

This aspect of the game does need a lot of testing, so again there is no point in starting a lengthy debate - I'm just telling you how it is at the moment.


How are units like '41 Tank Divisions handled in this regard? To my knowledge, these were not reconstituted, but rather phased out.

/g

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Post #: 852
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/3/2010 6:08:54 PM   
Hard Sarge


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Status: offline 		if it is the time for the break down, they will come back as Brigades 

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Post #: 853
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/4/2010 6:50:49 AM   
Joel Billings


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From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Just want to make it clear what "replaced" means in cases of destroyed Soviet units. They come back as empty shells that must be filled up with manpower and equipment from the production pool. They have minimum morale and experience and require time to train up. Now when the units were destroyed, some of their manpower and equipment was probably placed back in the pools (whatever got away). I'm not sure that everyone understands this. If it's already been explained, than you can ignore this post.

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Post #: 854
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/4/2010 5:50:54 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Ifind it funny that everyone goes on about rubbish AI's...when an awful lot of games I play I get walloped by it...I'm such a rubbish player that how the AI preforms is not a worry to me, if its a good AI compared to other games then I'm in for another beating...

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Post #: 855
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/5/2010 10:13:12 AM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		In the '42 AAR there is, as things looks as this is written, a good chance that Moscow will be either totally surrounded or at least have all direct rail lines cut.

What is the current treatment of supply functions for cities w/wo industrial capacity that gets cut of?
Will the AAR cause a review?

Leningrad held, Kiev did not.

Can/should the player be able to order increased stores and if so at what cost?

/g

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Post #: 856
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/5/2010 10:27:21 AM   
Hard Sarge


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From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		well, remember, Leningrad was never completely surrounded, it had a very small life line (better in winter), and in game, with out cutting that life line, Leningrad may never fall 

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RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/5/2010 12:48:09 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
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From: Sweden
Status: offline 		So a city (or is Leningrad a special case) can suffer 6 months of isolation and still be in the fight?

May - October '42 is 6 months.

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Post #: 858
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/5/2010 2:11:51 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
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From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		it is not isolated

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Post #: 859
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/5/2010 4:22:42 PM   
ComradeP

 

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Status: offline 		As long as the Soviets have access to ports to ship supplies across Lake Ladoga, Leningrad won't be isolated. Hard Sarge has shown us what happens when the Soviets lose access to those ports.

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Post #: 860
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/5/2010 4:38:49 PM   
gingerbread


Posts: 2994
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Fine, I can accept that isolation is an is/is not determination - not worth the work to go into load capacity of coastal freighters etc. Someone else will have to bring up the issue of the Stalingrad air bridge...

That still leaves my original issue unattended:

What is the current treatment of supply functions for cities w/wo industrial capacity that gets cut of?
Can/should the player be able to order increased stores and if so at what cost?

/g

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Post #: 861
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/6/2010 8:08:53 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
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Status: offline 		Players cannot order stockpiling of supplies in cities. However, cities will often have supplies stored there due to the various production rules and movement of supplies between citites. Units that get cut off in cities can access some of these supplies. I don't remember the specifics, but it's not anything I'd want to count on. Bottom line is you don't want to get isolated.

As for Leningrad, there are rules that cover what happens to the city population when just getting supplies over the lake. Basically the population will take damage and be able to provide less and eventually no manpower for the army. Depending on the situation (regarding ports available, ice condition on the lake), the combat units may find it hard to get fully resupplied, but they won't be treated as "isolated" unless they don't have a way to get supplies over the lake.

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Post #: 862
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/6/2010 8:40:59 PM   
Zemke


Posts: 642
Joined: 1/14/2003
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline 		What is the opinion of the testers in regards to team play. I think the scale and size of this game would lend itself well to a team game, say 4 German and 4 Soviet.

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Post #: 863
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/6/2010 8:50:12 PM   
karonagames


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Status: offline 		Take this for what it is worth, as we do not have full pbem functionality at the moment, and I don't know if an anti-cheat function will be put in, but at the moment you can make a save part way through a turn, so you could create an ad-hoc team game if everyone agreed which units they could and could not move and which areas of operation they would have. The last person to make moves would press the "end turn" button and send the resulting file to the other team.



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Post #: 864
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/6/2010 9:38:27 PM   
PyleDriver


Posts: 6152
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Occupied Mexico aka Rio Grand Valley, S.Texas
Status: offline 		Hell I would love just to have an air commander. I'm a ground commander and I tend to overlook alot when it comes to that area...

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Post #: 865
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/6/2010 10:52:14 PM   
ComradeP

 

Posts: 7192
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Status: offline 		A team game sounds like a good idea, but it's often difficult in practice, especially when someone has to quit.

Jon: having one person play as the air commander and another as the ground commander sounds interesting, but it's probably difficult to pull off as the air commander also has to arrange which aircraft support your ground missions and you can't really pre-plan all battles in a turn.

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Post #: 866
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/8/2010 1:18:42 AM   
Captain B


Posts: 386
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From: Knoxville, Tennessee
Status: offline 		As you can't in real life...that is the reason why the air commander and the ground commander get together to figure out what % of missions need to be strategic bombing, pre-planned tactical, on-call tactical, intercept enemy air missions etc., fighter escort, etc. It's called the air-land battle for a reason and the reason most ground units have a tac air officer assigned.

The air ground is a interesting split, but I think as an air commander, I would get bored really early and might just have to drop some bombs on my ground commanders HQ to keep things interesting....which brings up another point:

How is friendly fire accounted for in casualty generation. Way too many units were hit with friendly fire on both sides.

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Post #: 867
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/8/2010 1:05:24 PM   
Kharkov

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/7/2003
From: Birmingham
Status: offline 		Lets say I'm planning a 'Citadel' type operation for my spring offensive. Since I know the units taking part will be involved in heavy fighting for a number of turns can I stockpile supply prior to the operation and earmark it for those units taking part in my offensive operation?

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Post #: 868
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/8/2010 3:00:48 PM   
karonagames


Posts: 4712
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Status: offline 		There have been some changes recently, so with the usual proviso, subject to testing etc., but yes your HQs hold local stockpiles that units can draw from. If the HQ moves, the stockpile is reduced and your truck pool is reduced. If your truck pool is reduced - all units are impacted. so the longer your HQ stays stationary the bigger its stockpile will get - (I don't know what the min/maxs are), and the more trucks will be available to help the overall movement of supply. Once mobile warfare commences, the truck pool, like the AP pool will need very careful management.

As mentioned in another thread, the positioning of your HQs in relation to your supply infrastructure will have significant effect on your overall Combat ability.



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Post #: 869
RE: War in the East Q&A - 6/14/2010 1:08:19 AM   
Zorch

 

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Status: offline 		Speaking of stockpiling supplies for an offensive, the Soviets carried gasoline drums and other supplies on their tanks!


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Post #: 870
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