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RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem

 
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RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/11/2010 2:01:30 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: daft


quote:

ORIGINAL: MajFrankBurns


That's fine I wasn't taking anything from that form of view, just merely presenting "my own". I can play the ones I have on my Netbook now anyways.



Netbook's are amazingly expensive for what you get. thanks for driving up hardware prices for all of us by purchasing a re-packaged calculator! Why don't you just give them 20% of your disposable income each month while you're at it?


If netbooks are expensive... how about the iPad???
Netbooks are expensive because of their portability. But agree, the specs are cheap and you can get a fully functional laptop for a few hundreds more.

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Post #: 61
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/11/2010 6:53:35 AM   
D.Ilse


Posts: 330
Joined: 5/2/2009
From: Florahduh, yea that state.
Status: offline 		I don't see the important point of CC2 in the remake, the road-supply route

Where you can cut off a sector in the south and really bugger the brits in the north in the grand campaign.

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Post #: 62
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/11/2010 7:06:13 AM   
Andrew Williams


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From: Australia
Status: offline 		CC has traditionally  used a supply system that must trace a LOS through uncontested friendly maps to a supply depot... cut the LOS and well, you've done what you said.

it is only with the recent releases of WaR and tLD that this system has actually begun working properly after 10 years of being broken.

< Message edited by Andrew Williams -- 6/11/2010 7:07:28 AM >

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Post #: 63
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/11/2010 7:15:00 AM   
D.Ilse


Posts: 330
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From: Florahduh, yea that state.
Status: offline 		CC2 had the best scale of AFV to soldiers IMO, esp when compared to CC4-5.

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Post #: 64
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/11/2010 7:58:42 AM   
D.Ilse


Posts: 330
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From: Florahduh, yea that state.
Status: offline 		I also always like the fly-bys you got to see in the install of the CC2, that was a nice little touch IMO.

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Post #: 65
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/11/2010 8:49:30 AM   
daft

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jomni

If netbooks are expensive... how about the iPad???
Netbooks are expensive because of their portability. But agree, the specs are cheap and you can get a fully functional laptop for a few hundreds more.


Only joking. I was pulling MFB leg at bit, referring to a post he made on the price of BftB.

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Post #: 66
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/11/2010 9:23:33 AM   
Q.M


Posts: 1823
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From: Townsville QLD Australia
Status: offline 		Is there going to be a seperate forum for LSA?  Lotsa questions but no home yet.

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Post #: 67
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 12:48:01 AM   
gunny

 

Posts: 995
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Status: offline 		Could we have a scrolling mouse zoom control. I just couldn't resist the urge in TLD and was constantly attempting to scroll in for a closer look.
I can't go through that again

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Post #: 68
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 1:14:46 AM   
Fred98


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams
it is only with the recent releases of WaR and tLD that this system has actually begun working properly after 10 years of being broken.


It worked perfectly well in CC4 10 years ago, when I was able to cut Brubaker's supply line.

In one case my troops attacked onto a map and instead of attempting the map in the normal way, I raced across the map and the took the exit VL on the other side - thereby ensuring my troops would be in supply for the next turn.

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Post #: 69
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 4:10:53 AM   
Andrew Williams


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Status: offline 		It didn't work properly in CC5

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Post #: 70
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 4:24:08 AM   
Tejszd

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams

It didn't work properly in CC5


True, Atomic closed its doors before a proper patch was done for CC5....

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Post #: 71
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 4:38:32 AM   
Perturabo


Posts: 2614
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Status: offline 		So, will the broken AI be on the features list this time, or are you going to finally make it use at least basic tactics?

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 6/14/2010 4:40:15 AM >

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Post #: 72
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 6:17:01 AM   
Andrew Williams


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Status: offline 		You don't know what your are talking about as you haven't played the game so stop trolling.

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Post #: 73
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 8:29:02 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
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From: England
Status: offline 		CC has and always will be THE classic for me...that and Elite for the BBC B....

I always thought you needed to use tactics in this series...infact it's only just recently that I've found a game that you need to use the right tactics to get anywhere (CMSF and its modules)....so to say in the CC series tactics don't happen or aren't needed is quite shocking to me....

I have all the except CC1 of the original series and they still take pride of place...the last tiem I played was playing a Stalingrad Mod which was bloody brilliant.

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Post #: 74
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 9:57:09 AM   
Lützow


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tejszd

True, Atomic closed its doors before a proper patch was done for CC5....


Atomic droped CC but they did not fold. Instead they developed an Iraq Shooter, called "6 days in Falluhja", no publisher wants to release.

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Post #: 75
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 11:55:54 AM   
GaryChildress

 

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From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Hi Andrew,

Just to get an idea of what lay ahead...I'm guessing that basically the player will have a fixed number of days (and nights?) to hold out in the Arnhem area before XXX Corps arrives? Also I'm guessing that the 101st and 82nd sectors won't be included in the game? It looks like the overall layout of the game will be similar to the campaign system in CC4/5? Is all this correct?

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Post #: 76
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 12:11:08 PM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I always thought you needed to use tactics in this series...infact it's only just recently that I've found a game that you need to use the right tactics to get anywhere (CMSF and its modules)....so to say in the CC series tactics don't happen or aren't needed is quite shocking to me....

I was talking about the AI being so broken that it's not able to use even the most basic tactics taught in the in-game tutorial.

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Post #: 77
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 12:33:30 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		The AI of CC1 was fabulous!

I played CC1 H2H and the human opponent was 5,000 times better !

Come CC2, the game was so much better the AI could not cope.

The AI still cannot cope.

Nobody has ever said that it can.

All games are best played H2H.

I am always amazed anybody who uses Microsoft products thinks any AI is going to be a Deep Blue !

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Post #: 78
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 1:18:30 PM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

The AI still cannot cope.

Nobody has ever said that it can.

Then it's a multi-player-only game. It should be clearly written in product description.

Also, some people (at least try to) make games where the AI can cope.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

I am always amazed anybody who uses Microsoft products thinks any AI is going to be a Deep Blue !

Also, it's not only that the AI isn't smart. It simply is unable to do some of stuff that players do.
A simple example - players can search for muzzle flashes and target them with area fire. The AI can't do that because it doesn't see them.
It's not stupid. It's simply broken.

BTW.
I'm still waiting for a CCMT path that will implement the promised "# Accurate and realistic modern equipment modelling" and "# Accurately depicts modern tactical warfare and its challenges" features.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 6/14/2010 1:52:15 PM >

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Post #: 79
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 2:20:24 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Excuse me - isn't wether the AI is broken or not objective? I mean, it might be "broken" to other players, but perhaps it gives a good enough fight for some others?

It shouldn't be advertised as a multi player only game because it's not. There is an AI. Whether you think that's challenging enough is neither here nor there...because there is an AI.

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RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 2:54:12 PM   
Fred98


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
It's not stupid. It's simply broken.


Then it is a good thing you didn't buy it.

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Post #: 81
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 3:37:47 PM   
Perturabo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Excuse me - isn't wether the AI is broken or not objective?

1. It is objective. I'm not talking about challenge here. It's a tactical game. AI in tactical games needs to be able to use tactics.
If the AI can't even use basic tactics that beginners are told to use, then it's broken.
2. Even if for some weird reason you assume that an AI in a tactical game doesn't need tactics, I gave an example how the AI is broken by stuff like lack of integration of detection of muzzle flashes into game mechanics. If you can fire at undetected enemy units by spotting special effects, but the enemy can't fire at yours because it doesn't see these effects, then it's not just a question of lack of smartness of AI but its blindness.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 6/14/2010 3:51:44 PM >

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Post #: 82
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 4:32:24 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
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Status: offline 		Everyone moans about AI's I'm really not bothered as long as I enjoy playing the game and I enjoyed the CC series immensely...the reason PC games where a massive plus for me when I was a kid is because you didn't need someone else to play with...you could enjoy playing games without having to find someone else who enjoyed the same thing...I'm also someone who doesn't like being commited to PBEM games or sticking to playing times for realtime games (except FPS like Red Orchestra but thats because you can drop in and out whenever you want).

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RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 5:24:58 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
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Status: offline 		well CC5 gives me a kicking. I must be really bad

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Post #: 84
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 8:50:21 PM   
Andrew Williams


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quote:

well CC5 gives me a kicking. I must be really bad


Many players report that they struggle and are beaten by the AI in the CC series.

As i said earlier Perturabo dhasn't even played the game... he has a UBUNTU operating system, so he is just trolling.

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Post #: 85
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 10:53:19 PM   
Andrew Williams


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quote:

Just to get an idea of what lay ahead...I'm guessing that basically the player will have a fixed number of days (and nights?) to hold out in the Arnhem area before XXX Corps arrives?


matrixgames has released no further information on this game in development.

But, that statement above pretty well describes the situation in Arnhem 1944, so is probably a safe bet.

quote:

Also I'm guessing that the 101st and 82nd sectors won't be included in the game?


Looking at this image I'm inclined to question your ability at guessing



quote:

It looks like the overall layout of the game will be similar to the campaign system in CC4/5?


The pictures published would seem to indicate that... but that wouldn't rule out further development in that system or a complete change under the hood given that it has been well over a year since tLD was first released.


< Message edited by Andrew Williams -- 6/14/2010 10:54:51 PM >

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Post #: 86
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/14/2010 11:30:39 PM   
Southernland


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Status: offline 		Is there any game with a AI (Actual Intelligence) as opposed to hardcoded "doing stuff"?

I play CC, HOI2 and several editions of Total war and as I have written them here is the order of AI function

the few FPSers I've played or watched have no AI at all, seriously, pacman shows more intellect than these mission coded arcade games

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RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/15/2010 12:06:31 AM   
jomni


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Southern_land
Is there any game with a AI (Actual Intelligence) as opposed to hardcoded "doing stuff"?


Panther Operational Games' (like BFTB) AI is not scripted per scenario. It's quite dynamic and will take advantage of your weaknesses.


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Post #: 88
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/15/2010 3:38:11 AM   
GaryChildress

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Williams

quote:

Also I'm guessing that the 101st and 82nd sectors won't be included in the game?


Looking at this image I'm inclined to question your ability at guessing





Why would you be inclined to question my ability at guessing when nothing in the pic you posted lends any further clarity on the matter? Or am I missing something in the pic?

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Post #: 89
RE: Close Combat - Last Stand at Arnhem - 6/15/2010 4:26:11 AM   
jomni


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Status: offline 		German Flag.  UK Flag.
No US Flag.

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