RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac

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RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/8/2010 2:28:19 AM

aprezto

Posts: 824
Joined: 1/29/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Tomorrow it's back to reality again after 2 weeks with days of, travelling and family visiting.
Turn rate will probably continue to be rather slow as the weather is greaT!

Bah, don't I know it. On the plane at Heathrow and it's 28 degrees celcius and get off here and it's hail and sleet and 4 degrees. Still, talking to a Norwegian about crappy weather in NZ is always going to be a losing battle...

Interesting stuff on the west coast of Oz. Especially the heavy aerial bombardment of his troops. Does he have AAA elements to his group? From what I can glean from other AARs AAA is still neutered compared to reality (although you aren't up to proximity fuses yet).

_____________________________

Image courtesy of Divepac

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 781

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/8/2010 9:01:58 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Good to know that we have better weather than NZ a few months of the year

- No AA units, only some generic guns that cause the occasional ac loss.

This is the quiet period; Japan is still the strongest side but have expanded as much as their logistics can sustain in face of stiffening Allied resistance.

Lost 18 Lily's today, the armored version. Didn't help much, 27 of them went off alone despite being assigned specific escort at same altitude with air HQ in hex.
Only 11 P-40's caused the carnage despite the poor weather. Our sweeps arrived of course later on in the day.

Got a few ships and bombed the usual targets. No more signs of enemy carriers in the Central Pacific.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 17, 42

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on TF, near Cox's Bazar at 52,42
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 37 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
xAKL Chaksang, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
AM Lismore, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 160 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 47 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-48-IIa Lily x 27

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-48-IIa Lily: 11 destroyed, 5 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x Ki-48-IIa Lily bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
AVG/1st Sqn with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 5 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 10000 and 19000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 39 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 255th Armoured Brigade, at 49,138
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 33 NM, estimated altitude 2,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied ground losses:
17 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 1000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 31
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 29
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 34

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 15

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 15000 feet *
31 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 15000 feet

CAP engaged:
AVG/1st Sqn with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 3 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters to 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 35 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45
Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 36

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 2 damaged

Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 18 NM, estimated altitude 29,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 30

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
29 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 25000 feet

CAP engaged:
AVG/1st Sqn with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 3 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 1 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 19000 , scrambling fighters between 19000 and 29000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 31 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Akyab , at 54,45
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 26 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 33

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
33 x Ki-44-IIa Tojo sweeping at 15000 feet *
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 782

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/8/2010 9:35:17 PM

Mynok

Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline

quote:

Lost 18 Lily's today, the armored version. Didn't help much, 27 of them went off alone despite being assigned specific escort at same altitude with air HQ in hex.
Only 11 P-40's caused the carnage despite the poor weather. Our sweeps arrived of course later on in the day.

Pretty sure I've read that poor weather has a bad affect on coordination.

_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 783

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/8/2010 9:56:59 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

3 turns in a row that Lily unit went off on its own; in good as in poor weather.
The weather didn't prevent the P-40's from shooting them down in droves though. Some of the ole' uber kill routines still seems to be alive and well

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Mynok)

Post #: 784

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/9/2010 12:35:13 AM

Rob Brennan UK

Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

3 turns in a row that Lily unit went off on its own; in good as in poor weather.
The weather didn't prevent the P-40's from shooting them down in droves though. Some of the ole' uber kill routines still seems to be alive and well

Good news for you is the japanese can do the same to allied 2E bombers if they get caught unescorted too.. lost a lot of B26/5 A20's etc to LRcapping zeros. Slim consolation yes but it happens to both sides.

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 785

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/9/2010 4:01:23 AM

bklooste

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Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline

Whats the stats esp agg of the commander ?

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Underdog Fanboy

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Post #: 786

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/9/2010 9:23:12 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

I know who's going to die the most in the long run cause Allied 4E's don't go down easily

Aggro is 62; high but shouldn't be suicidal!-)

Mini KB has refuelled and is speeding home; Junyo is holding up, can still make 22 knots - one more than the CS Mizuho.
Managed to get the KB all but out of fuel; directing a TF to give the ships some emergency fuel. On the way to the HI's to do some R&R and upgrade.

Rabaul is almost maxed out as a base; will start on the forts next and remove an engineer unit.
Lack of engineers is what makes it impossible to build up more bases. Capturing more would only add fuel to the fire.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 18, 42

Air Combat

Switched to a night bombing attack to keep Andy cursing.

Night Air attack on Chittagong , at 55,41

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 50

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 8 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed on ground

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 7

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 15000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allied fighters finally back in the air north of Perth. We sweep the CAP and get tangled into a violent dogfight.
Losses are fairly equal on both sides.

Morning Air attack on 255th Armoured Brigade, at 49,139
Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 44 NM, estimated altitude 24,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 17

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 20000 feet

CAP engaged:
49th FG/9th FS with P-40E Warhawk (11 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
11 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000
Raid is overhead
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another TF is sunk near Akyab

Morning Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 54,44

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 41 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
KV Fritillary, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AM Deloraine, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sole surviving P-40 shoot down 2 and damage another Sally.
Allied fighters butcher all Jap bombers.

Morning Air attack on 255th Armoured Brigade, at 49,139

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 19

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 3 (0 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 1000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
49th FG/9th FS with P-40E Warhawk (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000
Raid is overhead

Also attacking 7th Armoured Brigade ...
Also attacking 255th Armoured Brigade ...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the afternoon the escort is lost (twice) escorting the Nells back towards another target.
2 sweeps mow down lots of P-40s.

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 54,44
Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 25 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 15

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 15000 feet

CAP engaged:
23rd FG/74th FS with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(4 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 4 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 54,44

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 14

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 15000 feet

CAP engaged:
23rd FG/74th FS with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(4 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 4 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 1 minutes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strangely another 4 P-40s are on the scene when the Nell arrives.
So we loose 4 and sink another light transport.

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Akyab at 54,44

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 28 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G3M2 Nell x 8

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M2 Nell: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied Ships
xAKL Elcano, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
23rd FG/74th FS with P-40E Warhawk (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(4 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Raid is overhead
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground Combat

I now got a firm lock on this Chinese Army Group.

Ground combat at 79,56

Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 58032 troops, 484 guns, 165 vehicles, Assault Value = 2048

Defending force 25661 troops, 217 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 708
Japanese adjusted assault: 1259

Allied adjusted defense: 496
Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
816 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 115 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 100 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 17 disabled
Vehicles lost 4 (0 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2076 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 168 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 113 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled

Assaulting units:
22nd Division
116th/B Division
35th Division
37th Division
51st Infantry Brigade
17th/C Division
17th/B Division
13th Ind.Mixed Brigade
10th RGC Temp./C Division

Defending units:
46th Chinese Corps
78th Chinese Corps
21st Chinese Corps
49th Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
7th War Area
12th Group Army
30th Group Army
11th Chinese Base Force
-------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to bklooste)

Post #: 787

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/12/2010 9:10:45 AM

LoBaron

Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

3 turns in a row that Lily unit went off on its own; in good as in poor weather.
The weather didn't prevent the P-40's from shooting them down in droves though. Some of the ole' uber kill routines still seems to be alive and well

Good news for you is the japanese can do the same to allied 2E bombers if they get caught unescorted too.. lost a lot of B26/5 A20's etc to LRcapping zeros. Slim consolation yes but it happens to both sides.

Hi PzB!

As always a great battle you are fighting against Andy!

Just for info: I think I have found one of the reasons (there could be more naturally) for your coordination issues at the Akyab area.

You are confusing the game engine if you have separate strikes on the same altitude. From the combat reports it looks like you set all of your attacks to 15k.
You had 2 very different plane types to esort: Sally and Lilly�s.
I think that the escorts had a dice roll to fly with the Sally�s (possibly because of plane type or cruise speed coordination, but could also be because of something else) and so
"robbed" the Lilly�s of "their" escorts.
If you choose different attack altitudes for Sally�s and Lilly�s and afterwards assign escorts with the same altitude distinction this has a good chance to improve coordination.

In general you seem to prefer 15k as your level bombing altitude. If this is true the game engine gets far too many results when looking for possible coordinated strikes and
this leads to many off results. I know that altitude distinction and checking on altitude overlaps on different strikes can be a bit tedious but thats how it works.

Hope this helps.

And good luck in fighting this out.

_____________________________

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Post #: 788

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/12/2010 6:27:45 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aprezto

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Tomorrow it's back to reality again after 2 weeks with days of, travelling and family visiting.
Turn rate will probably continue to be rather slow as the weather is greaT!

Bah, don't I know it. On the plane at Heathrow and it's 28 degrees celcius and get off here and it's hail and sleet and 4 degrees. Still, talking to a Norwegian about crappy weather in NZ is always going to be a losing battle...

Interesting stuff on the west coast of Oz. Especially the heavy aerial bombardment of his troops. Does he have AAA elements to his group? From what I can glean from other AARs AAA is still neutered compared to reality (although you aren't up to proximity fuses yet).

Not to hijack, but my wife and I spent three weeks in NZ two years ago. (South Island) I have been very fortunate to see a lot of the world-perhaps over 60 countries, but never anything as lovely as NZ. We are aching to get back. Of course, we might wait for better weather....

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to aprezto)

Post #: 789

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/12/2010 6:30:25 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

3 turns in a row that Lily unit went off on its own; in good as in poor weather.
The weather didn't prevent the P-40's from shooting them down in droves though. Some of the ole' uber kill routines still seems to be alive and well

I was bitching about my escorts not flying in burma and then realized I had not reset the range from "0"

Garbage in, garbage out.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 790

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/12/2010 7:01:21 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Another quiet turn; I almost messed up - 2 destroyers hunting shipping near Ceylon were left with "Remain on station".
11 Albacore's came out to meet them but came nowhere near scoring a hit.

Andy's turn to loose some mediums: 30 Blenheims hit a forward base (not manned) and 2 Tojo's on CAP claim 5.

My only offensive plans for the coming month is a renewed sub offensive against PH area.
Pretty sure Andy will be hauling men and goods at an increasing pace.

That's good advice LoBaron!

15k feet is the standard medium bomber altitude, usually put all bombers and fighters to this altitude.
- My conception is that this would make it simpler, not harder for the fly guys to coordinate themselves. Obviously not always so!-)

Never been to NZ myself, stranded in Brisbane for a year.
That's the human FUBAR FOW factor in WitP

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 22, 42

Air Combat

Morning Air attack on Shwebo , at 59,45
Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 24 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 2

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 30

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Blenheim IV bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb
15 x Blenheim IV bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
50th Sentai with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 25000
Raid is overhead
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Koggala at 28,50
Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
Albacore I x 11
Hurricane IIa Trop x 13
Mohawk IV x 13

Allied aircraft losses
Albacore I: 7 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Katsutade
DD Tachekaze

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x Albacore I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 791

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/12/2010 10:31:06 PM

Mynok

Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline

Actually that's a very interesting thought by LoBaron....must ponder it myself.

_____________________________

"Measure civilization by the ability of citizens to mock government with impunity" -- Unknown

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Post #: 792

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/13/2010 4:49:29 AM

Cribtop

Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline

LoBaron - consider this tactic robbed!

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Post #: 793

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/13/2010 8:56:04 AM

LoBaron

Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

Thanks guys.

Rob the tactic as you deem neccesary.

Actually I used a deviation of example 2) of my Air Mission Coordination guide in the war room.

When you set different altitudes you "break" coordination.

When you are flying 2 different bomber types and 2 different fighter types and set them all to the same target at the same altitude, you have one disadvantage:
If for some reason the coordination between the two bomber squads is broken because of a bad dice roll, chances are very high that it flies alone because the
game coordinates the three other squads.
If you "artificially break" the strike into parts by separating them by altitude, the chance that a failed coordination between the bombers lead to one bomber squad arriving over target alone is
significantly lower because each has its own escort, so its not up to the game engine anymore to decide who flies with whom.

_____________________________

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 794

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/13/2010 4:46:44 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Will try to see how this dual altitude tactic works tomorrow

Tojos will sweep then 3 bomber groups will go in at 10 and 15k feet with 2 fighter groups as their respective escorts at the different altitudes!

Andy got to know that the Hiyo was sunk today; thought he knew...it was a flaming hulk and I had to scuttle it.
He gave up chasing the Mini KB. Thought it went north. Told him it went south, the destroyer he sank was the northernmost ship as I divided the TF into 4.
The DD low on fuel took the shortest detour, then 2 battlehips and escorts went west in 2 wider arcs.
The Mini KB itself passed Tahiti on its way back! That's a long detour...

Lots of ships now upgrading in the Home Islands.
Got 1000+ pilots in the pools, 500 army and 500 navy.
Need to rotate more pilots out of China soon, will do it one group a turn as it sux!-)

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 23, 42

Ground Combat

The end is near for the surrounded Chinese north of Hong Kong.

Ground combat at 79,56

Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 63992 troops, 543 guns, 164 vehicles, Assault Value = 2205

Defending force 20577 troops, 213 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 397
Japanese adjusted assault: 1365

Allied adjusted defense: 124
Japanese assault odds: 11 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
861 casualties reported
Squads: 10 destroyed, 79 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 68 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1746 casualties reported
Squads: 35 destroyed, 85 disabled
Non Combat: 18 destroyed, 87 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled

Assaulting units:
116th/B Division
51st Infantry Brigade
37th Division
22nd Division
13th/B Division
138th Infantry Regiment
17th/B Division
35th Division
17th/C Division
13th Ind.Mixed Brigade
10th RGC Temp./C Division

Defending units:
49th Chinese Corps
46th Chinese Corps
78th Chinese Corps
21st Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
7th War Area
30th Group Army
12th Group Army
11th Chinese Base Force
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 78,58

Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 12123 troops, 104 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 424

Defending force 3533 troops, 86 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 54
Japanese adjusted assault: 394

Allied adjusted defense: 7
Japanese assault odds: 56 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: disruption(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
18 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
2226 casualties reported
Squads: 42949518 destroyed, 131 disabled - lol!
Non Combat: 42949552 destroyed, 113 disabled
Engineers: 11 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 76 (64 destroyed, 12 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
104th Division

Defending units:
62nd Chinese Corps
2nd Prov Chinese Corps
-------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to LoBaron)

Post #: 795

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/13/2010 5:35:55 PM

CapAndGown

Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline

What level of experience are you aiming for with your pilots, especially your fighter pilots? What skills are you training for with your bomber pilots, particularly army? I assume you are mostly going for skill levels of about 70?

< Message edited by cap_and_gown -- 6/13/2010 5:36:18 PM >

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 796

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/13/2010 7:42:54 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

First attempt at coordinated bombing attacks washed away in the rain + the Lily group was on 100 training so only the escorts and sweep flew and
found no opposition. 2 Sally groups stayed home altogether.

Ideally around 70 exp. That's the case with the training group in the picture below.
Sometimes I transfer pilots with 60+ exp as well, depends on requirements.

One annoying thing: When I request pilots from the reserve I sometimes get the wrong pilots.
E.g. a bomber unit get a very good fighter pilot, so I have to move this one back into the reserve pool.
So what do I do when I have fighter pilots in the bomber pool? Is it possible to transfer them manually?

Also got a lot of rookies in the reserve pool, think I have to draw them into training groups to get rid of them.

KB is busy upgrading in the Home Island; most airgroups are on training.
Mini KB will also join the KB soon and a new light carrier is due in 3 weeks. The Mini KB will be reduced in size to the Junyo and 2 light carriers.
The escort carriers can contribute if I require a larger local Mini KB support group.

As soon as the Musashi is out of the works it's time to accelerate the fleet carriers.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 24, 42

Ground Combat

Ground combat at 79,56
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 63067 troops, 543 guns, 164 vehicles, Assault Value = 2141
Defending force 19358 troops, 211 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 330

Japanese adjusted assault: 1055
Allied adjusted defense: 46

Japanese assault odds: 22 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
515 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 60 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 59 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1859 casualties reported
Squads: 30 destroyed, 125 disabled
Non Combat: 9 destroyed, 166 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled

Assaulting units:
13th Ind.Mixed Brigade
13th/B Division
22nd Division
37th Division
17th/C Division
17th/B Division
116th/B Division
138th Infantry Regiment
51st Infantry Brigade
35th Division
10th RGC Temp./C Division

Defending units:
46th Chinese Corps
78th Chinese Corps
21st Chinese Corps
49th Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
30th Group Army
12th Group Army
7th War Area
11th Chinese Base Force
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 78,58
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 12133 troops, 104 guns, 42 vehicles, Assault Value = 550
Defending force 1542 troops, 43 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 26

Japanese adjusted assault: 419
Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 419 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
554 casualties reported
Squads: 42949482 destroyed, 88 disabled
Non Combat: 42949493 destroyed, 78 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 11 disabled
Guns lost 66 (55 destroyed, 11 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
104th Division
2nd Ind.Mixed Regiment

Defending units:
2nd Prov Chinese Corps
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Pilot Training

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to CapAndGown)

Post #: 797

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/13/2010 7:50:12 PM

Cribtop

Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline

Do you get Air skill to 70 or wait until Experience is 70? The latter takes a long time, I've noticed.

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Post #: 798

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/13/2010 11:13:42 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Only air skill; can train for years to get combined exp up to 70...that's a no go.
Try to get exp into 50's at least. Think this should be tweaked a bit. Air skill should be slower to gain but contribute more to the overall flying skills
Can't have one without the other.

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 799

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/14/2010 5:30:15 AM

LoBaron

Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

PzB I understand your reasoning and it is true that exp takes much longer to build than air skill.

But just for comparision:

You have probably only a 10% higher chance for a positive exp coordination roll than my training group above.
As you can see I am already flying CAP for experience gain to keep exp roughly at similar values as air.
On this group I will soon reduce training to 20 and up CAP to 40 or 50.

I think your great AAR is not the platform to discuss if the current model is good or bad (I like it in fact) but
when you produce +50exp/+70air pilots, just in my opinion you start focusing on exp a bit too late.

You get good fighters naturally, on the other hand I would not complain about coordination problems with such a low
experience (at least not if this is the top end of exp you plan to throw into combat).

This does not mean that you are not increasing coordinaton by using the tactics discussed above, only that you will have
failed dice rolls based on exp on a regular basis, most of all if your bombers look similar.

_____________________________

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Post #: 800

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/14/2010 5:34:22 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

But how do we achieve to get the pilots to 70 exp?
- Train them for 2 years or more?

The war would be long lost before the next batch got into combat

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to LoBaron)

Post #: 801

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/14/2010 10:00:55 PM

LoBaron

Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline

I agree that its tough. There was a discussion about the most important pilot skills some time ago.

Not completely sure yet but my experience up to now is that if a unit has sufficient planes the exp gain through missions
is quite ok.
Many use specialized training squads with a low number of planes because they are not needed for skill increase. If you use the same low
plane squads for exp gain you don�t get much out of them.
I am trying to fill some of my training squads with obsolete planes to the max and until now would say that these squads with fatigue friendly
mission distribution gain exp quite ok. In a small scen thats not really possible but in the grand campaign very doable.

Please treat this as my personal opinion and I could equally be wrong on this:

I�d trade 15 air skill points for 8 exp points any day. Coordination fails can kill many more pilots than a bit lower a2a skills because
where coordination counts is over enemy territory and a kill is practically a guaranteed pilot loss.
70 is not the magic number for any skill, I�m thinking more in relative terms. Based on what I said above I would start shifting my
training to exp gain the closer the pilots get to 50 and max out exp gain as soon as they reach 60.
Its an interesting cost/benefit calculation. Others might think different, but I think the cost of training exp up by sacrificing skill
is so important right because its so hard to gain exp.

With low experience coordinating smaller strike packages, at least if you don�t expect to run into uber CAP, are the way to go.
You reduce the risk of 1-2 bad dice rolls ruining your whole day. You may also get a faulty coordination but it does not automatically
end in a bomber turkey shoot.

One last thing to ponder on: exp is more important on offensive than on defensive action, thats where you need coordination.
so maybe a split system with offensive/defensive pilots can be interesting.

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Post #: 802

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/15/2010 4:01:53 PM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

But how do we achieve to get the pilots to 70 exp?
- Train them for 2 years or more?

The war would be long lost before the next batch got into combat

exp seems more or less only to go up with missions (above 50), skill seems to more or less only go up (above 70) if you hit the jackpot. Training to 70 skill is no problem, by that time your pilots usually have reached 40 - 50 exp too. Going above 70 skill (to 75 perhaps) takes most of the time longer than reaching 70 when starting at 15 so I wouldn�t care about and skill (air skill) isn�t really improving in combat at all (exp does very well). I sent 70 skill 50 exp pilots to my most succesful Lightning squadrons, they now got some 100 kills each with pilots reaching double ace status but their air skill hasn�t improved by more than one - three points from combat. Their exp usually exploded and is up to 70 on average now.

Same for both sides, I would go with the 70 skill pilots as soon as they reach 70 in whatever skill you want to have. Otherwise this pilots fills up a precious training cockpit for a long time not really getting better when you could train another pilot to 70 skill in the same time.

_____________________________

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Post #: 803

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/15/2010 6:20:47 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Thanx for the input guys!
Think you are both right and that experience is something you have to gain through actual mission and combat while skills is something that can be provided
through training. Nothing can compensate for the real thing, right!

So the 70 airskill pilots have to prove themselves in service and through battle to reach veteran and ace status.
- Sending lower exp pilots to less "hostile" theaters to turn them into vets would be sensible - if doable that is!

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to castor troy)

Post #: 804

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/16/2010 3:09:17 PM

bklooste

Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Thanx for the input guys!
Think you are both right and that experience is something you have to gain through actual mission and combat while skills is something that can be provided
through training. Nothing can compensate for the real thing, right!

So the 70 airskill pilots have to prove themselves in service and through battle to reach veteran and ace status.
- Sending lower exp pilots to less "hostile" theaters to turn them into vets would be sensible - if doable that is!

I think Castor Troy has the right idea for sweeps use 70 skill /50-70 exp guys in your best planes , try to send the 50 exp guys to semi active theaters first, for cap 50/45 skill is prob enough since lost pilots have a good chance of comming back . In effect they are training . I like 2E bombers to have higher ratings though due to the extra production cost.

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Underdog Fanboy

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Post #: 805

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/18/2010 6:20:54 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Christmas Island can now officially be called a fortress.
Level 4 airfields, level 2 port, 35k supplies, 330 AV and support for 150 ac.
- I've moved in 45 Zero's and 45 Nells; that was one painful transfer from the Home Islands, probably lost 10 ac to OPS.
The base will continue to be reinforced in dribs and drabs and should now be able to defend itself from everything but a major enemy assault
by multiple divisions and carriers.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 26, 42

Ground Combat

The first big group of Chinese surrenders; 2/3's fight on.

Ground combat at 79,56
Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 62477 troops, 543 guns, 164 vehicles, Assault Value = 2104
Defending force 15974 troops, 207 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 204

Japanese adjusted assault: 961

Allied adjusted defense: 16
Japanese assault odds: 60 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
325 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 26 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
10878 casualties reported
Squads: 158 destroyed, 448 disabled
Non Combat: 369 destroyed, 711 disabled
Engineers: 35 destroyed, 25 disabled
Guns lost 75 (55 destroyed, 20 disabled)
Units destroyed 4

Assaulting units:
17th/C Division
138th Infantry Regiment
37th Division
35th Division
116th/B Division
13th/B Division
51st Infantry Brigade
17th/B Division
13th Ind.Mixed Brigade
22nd Division
10th RGC Temp./C Division

Defending units:
21st Chinese Corps
49th Chinese Corps
78th Chinese Corps
46th Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
7th War Area
30th Group Army
12th Group Army
11th Chinese Base Force
--------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to bklooste)

Post #: 806

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/18/2010 6:38:18 PM

Cribtop

Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline

Why not move in jumps via the Jimas, Marianas & Kwaj/Roi Namur?

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Post #: 807

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/18/2010 7:13:19 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

I did just so, even via Marianas - Truk - Kwai - Canton - Christmas Island.
Always in clear or partially cloudy weather; record was loosing 5 Nells in one jump.

These pilots are 50 exp ones with ca 70 naval attack so that may be the reason.
Not going to sacrifice the crack units for such an exposed outpost.

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 808

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/19/2010 4:19:16 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Very quiet so I've launched the only offensive arm ready for action.
28 submarines are getting ready to launch a renewed offensive against enemy shipping lanes between PH and the West Coast.
Based at Christmas Island even shorter range RO subs can patrol the waters around Pearl with a sub tender in port.

I'm scrounging engineer units; 3 will be moved to Woodlark Island, Milne Bay and Rossel Island to complete the defensive perimeter there.
Another one is going to Sorong and Timor. As resources are freed up or becomes available they will go to the islands around and north of Timor and the SRA
to build defenses in depth there.

The armoed division is going back to Rangoon; still without a full complement of Type 1 tanks as I can get it to upgrade 120 tanks to this type.
Motorized support is also only at 35%, otherwise it's at full strength.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Aug 27, 42

Just 2 Chinese corps left in the kessel now.

Ground Combat

Ground combat at 79,56

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 62332 troops, 543 guns, 164 vehicles, Assault Value = 2093
Defending force 8489 troops, 166 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 184

Japanese adjusted assault: 1075

Allied adjusted defense: 10
Japanese assault odds: 107 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
214 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 17 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
3230 casualties reported
Squads: -42950002 destroyed, 74 disabled
Non Combat: 42949408 destroyed, 130 disabled
Engineers: 42949665 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 133 (117 destroyed, 16 disabled)
Units destroyed 3

Assaulting units:
35th Division
13th Ind.Mixed Brigade
116th/B Division
37th Division
13th/B Division
51st Infantry Brigade
17th/B Division
22nd Division
17th/C Division
138th Infantry Regiment
10th RGC Temp./C Division

Defending units:
78th Chinese Corps
21st Chinese Corps
49th Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
11th Chinese Base Force
------------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 809

RE: BACK IN BUSINESS - PzB goes East again(st) Andy Mac - 6/19/2010 5:46:31 PM

CapAndGown

Posts: 3206
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Virginia, USA
Status: offline

Motorized support arrives slower than any other type of unit. It is a bear getting those tank divisions to get their full complement of motorized support. Even then, they are woefully short on support elements. It seems each tank division needs to be paired with a HQ if it is to operate at peak efficiency.

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 810

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