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Publish old classic games? - 6/22/2010 8:00:19 AM

pelle75

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Any chance that Matrix Games could get the rights to sell some really REALLY old wargames, like 1980-old? Maybe sell a bundle of all of them with an installer that sets things up to run in Dosbox like old dos games you buy from gog.com do.

I have these really nice collections from the 90's of (almost) all Infocom text adventures, of all SSI AD&D Goldbox games, all Space Quest games... but no "definite collection of all SSI wargames from 1979 to 1989" or anything like that. That is something that should exist, but I never heard of anything like it. Not just some crappy little colleection of some random picked 5 games, but more like a historic document including all of them (with manuals and whatever other interesting documentation could be found).

If someone for some reason demands too much in royalties for SSI games I'm sure there are other more obscure companies that would also be interesting to explore a "complete collection" of. Not sure how far back Matrix Games itself stretches back, but maybe you already have enough very old games that it could be interesting to just see a collection of all Matrix Games games up to some year?

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/22/2010 10:30:40 AM

jomni

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It's not just packaging. But making sure they work well with current hardware and OS.
If that's the case then a remake will be at hand (which is what Matrix is doing).

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/22/2010 10:34:48 AM

Obsolete

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I'm guessing they don't/won't do that well. #1 complaint with re-releases is the graphics are not up to par. It's a little sad that's how some wargamers chose a game, but that's how it is for a large part.

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/22/2010 10:43:59 AM

pelle75

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That's why I suggested doing what gog.com does: ship the game with a setup.exe that installs dosbox and just unzips the game contents into a "virtual drive" inside of dosbox, and of course include a dosbox config file that sets things up properly (probably the big part of the job, but still I bet most games will run on a rather default dosbox configuration).

Obviously skip the packaging and go digital download only if there is a high risk sales will not be high enough.

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/22/2010 10:47:50 AM

jomni

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If you want an old game without improvements then you can get one free from the net if you're not particular to the ethical issues.
May not be a good revenue generator for Matrix.

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/22/2010 11:17:23 AM

pelle75

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Yeah, I know perfectly well about where to get most of those games off the net, and I have no moral problems with doing that, but I would STILL happily pay for a complete collection knowing the games are complete, virus-free, with all documentation I need and all that. That's exactly the way to compete with free illegal games.

That Infocom collection is a great example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_Text_Adventure_Masterpieces_of_Infocom

Released in 1996, long after people abandoned text adventures, it contains 33 games (only two are missing that I know of, and that was because those two games were based on books and there were some copyright issues with the original authors), and the cd also came with a Windows interpreter (some open source application, not something they had to write for the collection) to allow the games to run on a then modern computer without having to touch the code of the old games. Of course it comes with PDFs of all the original documentation that came with the games, plus some bonus documents.

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/22/2010 4:39:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

#1 complaint with re-releases is the graphics are not up to par.� It's a little sad that's how some wargamers chose a game, but that's how it is for a large part.

I disagree. I think that's how clickfesters choose games (which sometimes happen to be wargames), and not how real wargamers choose games. *grin*

< Message edited by E -- 6/22/2010 4:47:11 PM >

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/22/2010 6:55:26 PM

Jeffrey H.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: E

quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

#1 complaint with re-releases is the graphics are not up to par.� It's a little sad that's how some wargamers chose a game, but that's how it is for a large part.

I disagree. I think that's how clickfesters choose games (which sometimes happen to be wargames), and not how real wargamers choose games. *grin*

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/22/2010 7:50:33 PM

reg113

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+1

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/22/2010 8:49:01 PM

Perturabo

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Well, some graphical stuff and interface can be pretty important for wargames. For example low resolution games can have horribly small field of view.

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/22/2010 10:03:50 PM

pelle75

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From just having my first look at Panzer General 2 (see other thread) (from 1997) I got a reminder how important graphics are. I don't mind that they are low resolution and ugly, but they really managed to make the terrain and units difficult to spot. Many older games are much easier to read. What the old games I have seen lack though is some kind of natural direct way to manipulate things like you have learned to expect from modern games (unfortunately not so much so for modern wargames though, although they are often slightly better at least than the ones from 20 years ago).

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/22/2010 10:46:29 PM

Arctic Blast

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The biggest thing I've learned buying some of the older GOG titles...it's not so much the old graphics that are the issue as old UI's. Man, the interfaces in some of those games are AWFUL.

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/23/2010 12:02:34 AM

bairdlander2

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I could never get dosbox to work.Im a scaffolder dammit,not a pc guy.

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/23/2010 2:08:37 AM

ilovestrategy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

The biggest thing I've learned buying some of the older GOG titles...it's not so much the old graphics that are the issue as old UI's. Man, the interfaces in some of those games are AWFUL.

I cannot stress enough how true this is. As much as I love Ultima 6, the interface was a chore in that game.

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/23/2010 2:14:53 AM

Hertston

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

The biggest thing I've learned buying some of the older GOG titles...it's not so much the old graphics that are the issue as old UI's. Man, the interfaces in some of those games are AWFUL.

That's graphics and UI's covered, but what about AI? On wargames of the sort of vintage we are talking about that universally sucked, even compared with many games today considered to have sub-par AI. And, of course, no MP either.

Nostalgia is over-rated IMHO. There are too many good 'new' games to play in always limited time without revisting ancient ones. I have some fond memories of some 1980s and early 90s games, but no desire to revisit them. Now if you'll excuse me, BftB awaits...

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/23/2010 5:11:46 AM

Southernland

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/23/2010 3:33:12 PM

Perturabo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

The biggest thing I've learned buying some of the older GOG titles...it's not so much the old graphics that are the issue as old UI's. Man, the interfaces in some of those games are AWFUL.

That's graphics and UI's covered, but what about AI? On wargames of the sort of vintage we are talking about that universally sucked, even compared with many games today considered to have sub-par AI. And, of course, no MP either.

Nostalgia is over-rated IMHO. There are too many good 'new' games to play in always limited time without revisting ancient ones. I have some fond memories of some 1980s and early 90s games, but no desire to revisit them. Now if you'll excuse me, BftB awaits...

To be honest, the good old games thing applies mostly to the genres that kinda went extinct with consolfication of PC gaming market - like Fallout-style cRPGs.
For example, I don't think Fallout would be held in such a high esteem by its hardcore fans if it would have multiple worthy successors that would have improved graphics, improved mechanics and would be more polished.

PC wargaming seems to be in better state than in 90s as the developers that started out in 80s still make games building on their experience instead of selling out or going completely insane like many "greats" of the mainstream gaming of 90s.

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< Message edited by Perturabo -- 6/23/2010 3:40:05 PM >

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/23/2010 3:57:05 PM

Bamilus

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There are already plenty of companies/websites that are republishing old games. Matrix doesn't need to spend resources on that.

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/23/2010 6:15:50 PM

pelle75

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I don't know of any other publisher that specializes in wargames and have a working system set up already to distribute DRM-free downloads.

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/23/2010 6:21:47 PM

pelle75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
To be honest, the good old games thing applies mostly to the genres that kinda went extinct with consolfication of PC gaming market - like Fallout-style cRPGs.
For example, I don't think Fallout would be held in such a high esteem by its hardcore fans if it would have multiple worthy successors that would have improved graphics, improved mechanics and would be more polished.

PC wargaming seems to be in better state than in 90s as the developers that started out in 80s still make games building on their experience instead of selling out or going completely insane like many "greats" of the mainstream gaming of 90s.

That is a good point, but at the same time, as I mentioned, the value of a compilation of old wargames would also be as a historic document, for a wider audience than only those that have alreaday played many of the games. I think an important part of pc gaming deserves better than to be only available, at best, on ab*********sites, or on slowyly decaying old floppy disks.

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/23/2010 7:21:53 PM

Perturabo

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Well, abandonware sites are doing pretty good job at preserving these games as a historic document. I don't think they have much commercial value (beyond being collection items), especially when sold without printed documentation.

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/23/2010 8:26:52 PM

pelle75

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Well, with abandonware you often don't get any documentation at all, and you don't even know if the game is complete and/or original, or has some old copy-protection that has not been properly cracked that means you can't complete the game etc etc. The commercial value in this would be in the collection, not the individual games, obviously.

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/23/2010 8:34:34 PM

Perturabo

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Abandonware games usually have full scanned/txt documentation.

I agree about the reliability though. I actually had problems with original Gunship that I have bought on eBay. It turned out that it crashes after I advance to a rank of 2nd lieutenant, so I have to play C64/Amiga versions instead.

Selling these games as a collection would be even worse commercially. Each game would have to be professionally cracked and tested and all the documentation would need a high quality reproduction.

< Message edited by Perturabo -- 6/23/2010 8:50:59 PM >

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/23/2010 9:51:19 PM

Scott_WAR

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Steam takes old games and makes them work with new operating systems and sells them. GOG and a few others do the same. So I think its safe to say its profitable.........

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/23/2010 10:33:32 PM

Arctic Blast

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

The biggest thing I've learned buying some of the older GOG titles...it's not so much the old graphics that are the issue as old UI's. Man, the interfaces in some of those games are AWFUL.

That's graphics and UI's covered, but what about AI? On wargames of the sort of vintage we are talking about that universally sucked, even compared with many games today considered to have sub-par AI. And, of course, no MP either.

Nostalgia is over-rated IMHO. There are too many good 'new' games to play in always limited time without revisting ancient ones. I have some fond memories of some 1980s and early 90s games, but no desire to revisit them. Now if you'll excuse me, BftB awaits...

I couldn't agree more. Too many people look back and only remember the good games and talk about the past as a golden age. They forget the 90% of releases that were, as they are now, complete crap.

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/23/2010 10:41:16 PM

Perturabo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Steam takes old games and makes them work with new operating systems and sells them. GOG and a few others do the same. So I think its safe to say its profitable.........

When they offer stuff that modern games often don't offer.
Which old strategic/tactical wargames offer something that isn't offered by modern ones?

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/24/2010 12:00:11 AM

PunkReaper

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Always hoped Matrix woiuld publish a polished version of the old Kingmaker title..... dreams

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/27/2010 6:51:51 AM

Scott_WAR

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Steam takes old games and makes them work with new operating systems and sells them. GOG and a few others do the same. So I think its safe to say its profitable.........

When they offer stuff that modern games often don't offer.
Which old strategic/tactical wargames offer something that isn't offered by modern ones?

Most of them worked correctly without waiting 6 months to a year for several patches to make them finished products?

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/27/2010 8:49:56 AM

Tomokatu

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quote:

Always hoped Matrix woiuld publish a polished version of the old Kingmaker title..... dreams

Two games I've always wanted to have re-released on modern platforms.
Lords of the Rising Sun (the Amiga version, NOT! the PC version) being the 12thC Genpai War (Minamoto vs Taira)
Kingmaker - played the multiplayer boardgame, bought the Amiga version (fatal CTDs in combat screens- hellishly slow AI moves) bought the PC version, never got it to run

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RE: Publish old classic games? - 6/27/2010 9:31:06 AM

Hertston

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR
Most of them worked correctly without waiting 6 months to a year for several patches to make them finished products?

Hehe.. more nostalgia. Other than that, perhaps, with much less coding involved there were fewer mistakes in it, most of them were just as buggy or broken as today's games - it's just as there were no patches (as there was really no way of distributing them) we just learned to live with it as we didn't know any better.

Returning to AI, will someone please suggest some of these 80s or early 90's wargames that even had one? I just seem to remember a constant stream of game that looked great, and often were in every respect other than that it was virtually impossible to lose unless you tried (and in some cases even then). That is not the case today, at least as far as I'm concerned, even with games with alleged 'weaker' AI.

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