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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 6:45:54 PM   
LoBaron


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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 6:56:14 PM   
Blind Sniper


Posts: 863
Joined: 8/9/2008
From: Turin, Italy
Status: offline 		Thanks Tullius, you are more kind to Italy than me

In Italy, as in other nations where the soccer is a money machine, the clubs lay down the law.
Moreover Lippi won the last WC therefore his choices were unquestionables.

We are paying for this...

LoBaron...nice video



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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 7:01:54 PM   
frank1970


Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline 		Italy won the last WC because of some VERY strange decisions of the referees, expecially in their match against Germany. This time, they got what they deserved. Sorry to say it this harsh, but they were too lazy, too individual and to little team playing.
I think Germany will win against England (since 1966 the English won no important game against Germany). Top favourites are Argentina and Spain, with a small chance for Brazil, Portugal or Germany. It all depends on the referees, of course, who did some really strange stuff until now.


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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 7:03:52 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Hehe thanks Blind Sniper. Since Austria has no football team to speak of and nearly every time manages to perform worse than even the lowest expectations,
the only bright side is when its possible to make fun of other teams that don´t do this on a regular basis.

I wonder how the Italian league survived the scandals of the last years ntw...

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 7:10:36 PM   
Dixie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank

Italy won the last WC because of some VERY strange decisions of the referees, expecially in their match against Germany. This time, they got what they deserved. Sorry to say it this harsh, but they were too lazy, too individual and to little team playing.
I think Germany will win against England (since 1966 the English won no important game against Germany). Top favourites are Argentina and Spain, with a small chance for Brazil, Portugal or Germany. It all depends on the referees, of course, who did some really strange stuff until now.



*cough* 2001


I'd expect Germany to win at the weekend though. Der Fussball machine always seems to do well at tournaments no matter how they play.

I still think Argentina are going to cock it up somehow...

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 7:13:11 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
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From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		...and the only team in World Cup history to qualify for every tournament and advance out of group stage is....that's right the boys from Brasil. 

Only Argentina has looked special so far, but in the knock out stages lose and go home so anything goes.

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Post #: 306
RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 7:13:37 PM   
frank1970


Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline 		2001 was not so important ;-)

Germany managed to get really destroyed by the English, qualified in a qualification match and after that got almost world champion (thanks to a extremely great Oliver Kahn).

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 7:16:18 PM   
frank1970


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From: Bayern
Status: offline 		But only because Germany was not allowed to take part in the 1950 tournament. In 1954 Germany showed what she was able to.



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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 7:18:31 PM   
frank1970


Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline 		Wasn´t it an English football-player who said:

"Football is 22 men fighting an giving all and Germany winning in the end?"



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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 7:21:11 PM   
TulliusDetritus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank
Wasn´t it an English football-player who said:

"Football is 22 men fighting an giving all and Germany winning in the end?"


Gary Lieneker said that, correct As a neutral I give both Germany and England 50% chances... Great match.


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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 8:13:21 PM   
vinnie71

 

Posts: 964
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Status: offline 		England vs Germany

Experience vs the need to prove oneself.

In my book they are pretty balanced with the game being decided by the team that can withstand (rather than apply) pressure, be it mental, physical or tactical.

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 8:21:15 PM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHYVT59zYgM

outstanding!


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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 8:31:37 PM   
Blind Sniper


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quote:

Italy won the last WC because of some VERY strange decisions of the referees, expecially in their match against Germany.


Honestly, I don't remember very well this match (but I remember it was a good one although) but I don't think you win a WC for referee errors. Surely Italy has been lucky.

Do you remember the Italy - South Korea match in the 2002 quarter-finals?
What a referee...

quote:

Sorry to say it this harsh, but they were too lazy, too individual and to little team playing.


Quite true, too many first ladies...but sometimes they are able to win a match, sometimes no.

quote:

I wonder how the Italian league survived the scandals of the last years ntw...


Ehm...which scandals???
Seriously, a lot of clubs are going through a bad period...our league is not funny anymore.

England vs Germany
Now I'm a perfect neutral, I would say a Germany victory.
Anyhow it will be a good match to watch with friends and beers.


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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 9:21:03 PM   
aprezto


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Status: offline 		Well that was very entertaining and very surprising from a kiwi perspective. We don't lose a game, we don't win a game, and we don't continue.

However, I think the New Zealand brand of football was pretty boring - unfortunately due to necessity. We showed a reasonable defensive resiliance, 1 good defender, 2 good up and comers, and a keeper that played out of his skin. However, we had no attack to speak of. I think our results are about as good as we could ever have hoped for, but that we don't deserve to advance.

I'll tone down the interest now, watch from affar and wait for the 'real' world cup (in which we will crush everyone in the pool game and quarters but not turn up in the semis and be out - yet again - sigh)

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 9:46:05 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

...and the only team in World Cup history to qualify for every tournament and advance out of group stage is....that's right the boys from Brasil. 

Only Argentina has looked special so far, but in the knock out stages lose and go home so anything goes.

Warspite1

Not so Tocaff. Brazil have appeared in every World Cup that is true, but they have not advanced out of every group stage.

1930 - Finished second (one team went through)
1934 - No group stage, but they lost in the First Round
1966 - Finished third (two teams went through)

Those three tournaments apart, I believe they have reasonable record in the World Cup

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 9:48:46 PM   
tocaff


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From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Oops!  Sorry they're feeding me lies here in football land!

The country stops for tomorrow's game and the fireworks will begin long before the ball is touched and since Brazil will advance, long afterwards.


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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 9:49:59 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank

But only because Germany was not allowed to take part in the 1950 tournament. In 1954 Germany showed what she was able to.


Warspite1

Not quite true either Frank. Germany did not enter in 1930 and in 1938 Germany lost in the first round to Switzerland in a replay.

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/24/2010 9:52:04 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tocaff

Oops!  Sorry they're feeding me lies here in football land!

The country stops for tomorrow's game and the fireworks will begin long before the ball is touched and since Brazil will advance, long afterwards.

Warspite1

I would wish you luck for tomorrow, but I somehow don't think you are going to need it - Brazil are like Germany - you can never discount them in the world's premier football tournament....

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/25/2010 12:40:20 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

I do find the flopping and over-dramatics to be annoying and detrimental to my enjoyment of the matches. They can be amusing too though, particularily when doing a slo-mo instant replay where you clearly see that the players either barely touching each other or missing entirely....followed by as much as a 2 second pause after which the player starts going down.....then throws his arms up in the air, arches his neck up and puts on his "anguish" face as if he'd just been hit from behind by a Denver Broncos linebacker in full gear.



OTOH, an American player needed four stiches yesterday to close the lip almost ripped off his face by the Algerians--stiches after the game. It wasn't seen by the ref, wasn't called, and he played on. That would not have happened in the NBA.

There are a lot of theatrics, but these guys aren't wearing pads or even mouth guards. They have highly developed leg muscles and the kicking impacts are pretty severe. The mixing it up and sliding after the ball, cleats high, has to be painful. Not to mention the head-to-head whanging during fights for headers.

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/25/2010 12:43:47 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus


quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay
With both of the finalists from the last WC out, it's time to pull for all the underdogs. I'd love to see a champion from a country that has never won it before.


We can mention this statistic.

When the WC has been played in Europe = an European team has won. ALWAYS.
When the WC has been played in the Americas = a team from the Americas has won. ALWAYS.

Until 2002, all the WCs were played in Europe and the Americas. It was the first visit to Asia = a team from the Americas won (Brazil).

Now for the very first time the WC is visiting Africa, so... the winner should be?

One thing is certain, the European teams ONLY won when they played in Europe.

We will see


My old Stats prof said something about correlation and causation . . .

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/25/2010 12:43:54 AM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

Anyhow it will be a good match to watch with friends and beers.

English or German beers?


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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/25/2010 12:50:58 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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Status: offline 		I'm watching the Italy game on Tivo while reading the forum. Number 6 on the SVK team just got his knee laid open like a piece of flank steak. I don't know what video feed Europe got (is it the same cameras in a pool for the whole world?), but ESPN here did a nice, nasty, semi-close up.

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/25/2010 1:42:17 AM   
JohnDillworth


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quote:

I'm watching the Italy game on Tivo while reading the forum. Number 6 on the SVK team just got his knee laid open like a piece of flank steak. I don't know what video feed Europe got (is it the same cameras in a pool for the whole world?), but ESPN here did a nice, nasty, semi-close up.

Yes they did. Saw that on a 50 inch plasma and it looks like it cut deep, right down to the muscle. Grisly, but they only showed it in slow motion once and at the time the context was important. Hard to see how he plays the next game. I know I have spent some time making fun of Italy but I believe that this was the best game so far. Italy was scary good in the last 20 minutes. Also, we have seen some questionable officiating in the cup so far but not today. This was a well called game and he let the players play. He also made it clear that "diving" would not be tolerated. He set the example against the Slovak keeper where he refused to except that he was hurt. The ref was correct because the keeper picked himself up and kicked the ball about 80 yards. I don't think anybody truly believed Italy was dead until that last whistle blew. And even then it took a few seconds
This is what all the excitement is about. Play on!

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/25/2010 2:39:16 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

I'm watching the Italy game on Tivo while reading the forum. Number 6 on the SVK team just got his knee laid open like a piece of flank steak. I don't know what video feed Europe got (is it the same cameras in a pool for the whole world?), but ESPN here did a nice, nasty, semi-close up.

Yes they did. Saw that on a 50 inch plasma and it looks like it cut deep, right down to the muscle. Grisly, but they only showed it in slow motion once and at the time the context was important. Hard to see how he plays the next game. I know I have spent some time making fun of Italy but I believe that this was the best game so far. Italy was scary good in the last 20 minutes. Also, we have seen some questionable officiating in the cup so far but not today. This was a well called game and he let the players play. He also made it clear that "diving" would not be tolerated. He set the example against the Slovak keeper where he refused to except that he was hurt. The ref was correct because the keeper picked himself up and kicked the ball about 80 yards. I don't think anybody truly believed Italy was dead until that last whistle blew. And even then it took a few seconds
This is what all the excitement is about. Play on!


The ESPN European and S. African commentators the USA audience hears (I know you know this, but the European forumites may not) have been scathing in their comments on the over-acting, and a bit less so but still critical of the bad calls. I wonder if the other nations' TV facemen have done the same?

I agree that this ref was applying tough-love to the whiners. I wonder if FIFA officialdom has put the word out down the chain-of-command that the world is noticing the Oscar-worthy performances, and to tighten it up.

Jay Leno has been doing some of the best "hits" in slow-mo on "The Tonight Show", and they are so outlandish it almost isn't funny. (But, it still is.) These fakes take away from the honest players, like #6 today. Of course, Leno's audience is more NASCAR than soccer, so it plays well with them. But still, it was good to see the ref today standing right over a "hurt" player, ordering him to get up and play, and then adding more extra time for his foolishness.

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/25/2010 4:11:14 AM   
aprezto


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Status: offline 		I remember a great Heiniken ad shown while I was in the UK, 10 or so years ago: it was of a rogue cameraman filming the Italian 'closed doors training' session. Basically they were all taking 'tumbling and crying' lessons. They have a very bad reputation for it.

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/25/2010 7:59:02 AM   
coxville


Posts: 87
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Status: offline 		quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank
Wasn´t it an English football-player who said:

"Football is 22 men fighting an giving all and Germany winning in the end?"


Gary Lieneker said that, correct As a neutral I give both Germany and England 50% chances... Great match.

Almost...what he actually said was "Football is a simple game. You play for 120 minutes and then the Germans win on penalties".

I think Sunday could be facinating as England vs Germany is like a derby match in the sense that the form book goes out the window and you musn't forget Beckenbauer has twice had a dig at England. he may well regret pulling the Lion's tail!

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/25/2010 8:35:01 AM   
moonraker65


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From: Swindon,Wilts. UK
Status: offline 		I believe Italy have gone on too long with the same players. Great though they are the likes of Camoronesi, Cannavaro and Pirlo have had their day. If Italy want to getback to winning ways then it's time for some new blood to come in. Tactically I've never seen a team play so negatively in any World Cup.

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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/25/2010 10:02:10 AM   
Apollo11


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Status: offline 		Hi all,

]



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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/25/2010 11:04:13 AM   
Jaroen


Posts: 169
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From: Amsterdam
Status: offline 		For the US citizens unfamiliar with the current football (!) ratings. Official FIFA national team ratings, see:
http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/ranking/lastranking/gender=m/fullranking.html

Gulp, the Dutch rated 4th . . . !? They never perform well when being the favorite . . .
But it does show why the removal of France and Italy is quite against all order. Next months ratings will be a little different I guess.

Just read the Dutch Bavaria Babes returned home safely! Did you guys pick up on the very stringent FIFA rulings against sneak advertising?
http://industry.bnet.com/advertising/10007233/what-the-criminal-prosecution-of-bavarias-beer-babes-tells-us-about-the-enfeeblement-of-official-sports-sponsorships/

Apologies for the longish url's.


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RE: OT World Cup 2010 South Africa - 6/25/2010 12:27:25 PM   
Blind Sniper


Posts: 863
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quote:

English or German beers?


I prefer a neutral beer as well!
Guinness for all match

quote:

I believe Italy have gone on too long with the same players.


Yes, they were good players, now they are old players. Cannavaro has been one of the best defender in the world, but it happened several years ago...in the previous WC he was at the edge.
Pirlo unfortunately was broken, he played just for the desperation situation.
The few young players were not the best available (of course IHMO).

quote:

Tactically I've never seen a team play so negatively in any World Cup.


Sigh...

Apollo11...our tactics are secret!
Anyhow you forget the corner tactic

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