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Petition to fix remaining bugs in 7.1

 
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Petition to fix remaining bugs in 7.1 - 8/1/2002 5:32:44 PM   
GYBLIN

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: ocala florida
Status: offline 		Hello All!I have learned that there will be no more fixes for sp:waw.I am deeply saddened at this.I know the game is free but the more i play it the more i wish it had some of the bugs removed.Im not asking for oob fixes or anything that can be edited or fixed by users.All im asking is please address the issues of the bugs many of us have posted and please finish what you have started and that is the creation of a GREAT ww2 simulator.I will find it very hard to buy future products from Matrix if this is what happens especialy if i do fork out 55 bucks or so.I mean all of this in a respectful manner.:)
Post #: 1
To quote: - 8/1/2002 8:42:41 PM   
Gary Tatro

 

Posts: 1213
Joined: 2/1/2002
From: MA, US
Status: offline 		"What do you want for nothing? Rubber biscut"

If you like the game, play it. If you don't like it, don't play it.
But I find your philosophy on life a little strange. Say you go to a hardware store and they are giving away free shovels. Happy to get a free shovel you take one home and use it. And it works well for a while then the handle breaks. Now according to you, you would go back to that hardware store and demand that they fix the shovel or else you will not buy anything else from thier store.:confused:
Ridiculous was the word that came to my mind when I read your post.
Maxtrix is a for-profit business. It has provided enough charity in my mind.

_____________________________

"Are you going to do something or just stand there and bleed"

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 2
- 8/1/2002 11:00:43 PM   
GYBLIN

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: ocala florida
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Say you go to a hardware store and they are giving away free shovels. Happy to get a free shovel you take one home and use it. And it works well for a while then the handle breaks. Now according to you, you would go back to that hardware store and demand that they fix the shovel or else you will not buy anything else from thier store. [/QUOTE]

ITs still customer satisfaction free or not.Read your locale Walmart return policy.If i saw they could care less about the shovels after they gave them out and let say the shovel splintered halfway through using them dont you think it would be in the best interest of the hardware store to fix it.So the next time i need a shovel i know i can depend on that hardware store.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 3
Customer Satisfaction?? - 8/1/2002 11:28:02 PM   
Gary Tatro

 

Posts: 1213
Joined: 2/1/2002
From: MA, US
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by GYBLIN
[B]

ITs still customer satisfaction free or not.Read your locale Walmart return policy.If i saw they could care less about the shovels after they gave them out and let say the shovel splintered halfway through using them dont you think it would be in the best interest of the hardware store to fix it.So the next time i need a shovel i know i can depend on that hardware store. [/B][/QUOTE]

Again I am confused by your thinking. "Customer" satisfaction implies that you PAID for the product you received. FREE is FREE.
You are NOT a custumer you are a benificiary of a GIFT. A GIFT is something you received for FREE.

Now if you paid for a computer game and then it was unplayable you would have something to complain about. I can not tell you how many games I purchased and shelved because of crashes or just unplayable. Merchant of Venus II, OpArt of War I-before the patches and CIV III-before the patches to name a few. If you honestly feel that stongly about it, I recommend you going back in the forum a year and read all the post about the conclusion of SPWAW work. It was not something done on a whim, it was a very difficult decision for matrix and something they did not want to do, but had to do to continue as a business.

_____________________________

"Are you going to do something or just stand there and bleed"

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 4
- 8/2/2002 12:27:20 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Matrix IS doing something about improving SPWaW 7.1!!!!

Its called the Combat Leader upgrade heheh:D :D

Hmm I think it is also interesting to mention I just got a copy of Steel Panthers II Modern Battles (retail copy as well) sent to me that I ordered from cdaccess.com

Will it bother me if I can only play this game inside of my alternate Win 98 SE OS (that comes complete with authentic blue screens)?

Nope I knew it might be limited in that way when I bought it.

I have been playing the SPMBT program lately (thanks yet again Mojo). I somehow mangled the sound and don't have any sounds for my games in there, my doing though (need to have my computer smart buddy look at it I supose).
Even when installed properly the mouse movement sucks large in SPMBT. Is this a problem, NO of course not (means I need to take longer with a mouse nothing more).

Whining that an old DOS design is a pain with my mouse ain't going to be a valid use of my day. I would actually be surprised if someone actually DID want to fix this for me.
The fact that SPWaW SPMBT and SPWW2 are all FREE FREE FREE can never be over looked.

It is a matter of record (buried down a long way in forums I expect) that I am on record as saying I thought Matrix had done enough for us even back as far as 5.1

That we have 7.1 is proof positive that Matrix likes it's fan's wishes perhaps TOOOOO much.

I sure hope they sell ****loads of Combat Leader cds.

Anything else will be a loud statement that we gamers are to many freeloaders and not enough genuine honest supporters.

And this is not to confuse us with ruxuis's Loyalists.
In deferment to ya ruxius, only Matrix can tell how many loyal fans there really are. Must be more than your thread implied.

But at the same time, lame Combat Leader sales will state categorically, that there are just to many that only want a hand out and not enough that will actually put their wallet where their mouth is.

On a related line of thinking, I have seen that over on Battlefront, there is a large interest in "lengthier demos" (in this case I refer to their new game Strategic Command). This to me spells only one thing, they want a game that is more "playable" and doesn't require an honest purchase.
Claims they "will" purchase, are as valid as "honest dear I wil pull out in time" (there is no evidence either statement is believed by many).

Alas the world DOES have a large number of individuals that will take without giving.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 5
- 8/2/2002 12:59:00 AM   
GYBLIN

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: ocala florida
Status: offline 		I am willing to pay for any further upgrades.Hell matrix could have had me for 50 bucks easy if i didnt know it was free.I kinda stumbled into the game.I think its better than sp3.I started on Spww2 but i hated the clunkyness of it.Now i cant go back from sp:waw.Like i said in a earlier post and in the beggining of this one.I realize it was FREE.I accept it,i respect it.Its just one or two SMALL things i wish could be fixed.I too have a stack of old crap bug filled games that make great clay pigeons or beer coasters.Being new to this forum i didnt know it was addressed earlier and im not going to dig through a year of posts for it.So be it!.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 6
- 8/2/2002 1:23:43 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Hmmm to the SPMBT crowd hmmm just installed Steel Panthers II the original thing. And hey the mouse works correctly.

So what I want to know is this, while they were ensuring that SPMBT was soooooo much better, how did they manage to bugger up the mouse software?

A fix that causes more problems than improvements is NOT a fix eh.:)

It is likely I will run my SPII original game more than the drag the mouse through mud SPMBT game unless someone addresses the mouse mangling.

I like accuracy as much as the next guy, but this is a game first and last, and a sluggish mouse mangles my fun factor.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 7
- 8/2/2002 1:58:31 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		Les the Sarge 9-1: Sluggish mouse? Don't you mean over-zealous mouse? There is a fix for over-zealous mice. I fixed mine (apart from centering the screen on the mini-map). I can't recall the fix, but there's a file which has like a list of 8 numbers, and it seems like the 5th oneis the one to adjust. It might not fix your problem, but you could toy with it nonetheless. I believe the default for that number was "0", but I changed mine to "7". Perhaps yours is sitting on 10 and should be 3 or so.

Check this thread, it had what I mentioned: http://www.wargamer.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=24&t=000239

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 8
- 8/2/2002 2:43:45 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Thanks for the help Charles, although no I actually mean a slow motion dragging along mouse pointer problem, although I do know what you mean by hyper mouse movement (have experienced that as well in the past)

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 9
- 8/2/2002 3:19:20 AM   
GYBLIN

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: ocala florida
Status: offline 		Ironicly Les there is a fix out for so:Mbt make sure you have Version 1.1 I think i heard that the mouse problem was either fixed or top priority to be fixed.I cant wait till they unlock the long campaigns in version 2+.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 10
- 8/2/2002 3:58:52 AM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		Free?
Well, maybe for some people. I bought all three mega campaigns and figure I spent about $100 (with shipping) for this free game. If there are still real bugs in the game then Matrix should fix them for all those people, if nothing else, who spent money on the game.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 11
- 8/2/2002 8:01:52 AM   
G_X

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 7/7/2002
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline 		Well, seeing as I play MBT as much as I play WaW, I've never had my mouse do anything it shouldn't, and the way it works is just great, I love it as much as I love WaW.


As to He who bought the MC's...you're actually in a minority of WaW players I think. I've yet to buy an MC, I've not had WaW that long, and I plan on, as soon as I have the spare cash, getting LV, as I don't like the pacific theatre much, I don't plan on getting Watchtower, and would get the MCNA if there were any more copies.

And, if you want Bug-Fixes, prepare to spend the cash to get Combat Leader, I am, if my computer can run it. :)

Sure, I'd love for WaW to be better and not have to pay for it, but that doesn't mean I'm not willing to dish out the money and buy the game. As for the longer demos, sure, I love demos, the more of a game I can play around with that works fully, the more I'm likely to think "Wow, I bet if I tried this and this...aww, but I can't cause it's the demo, time to go get the game!" And yes, I know I'm not the normal gamer, the predominance of Warez proves that some gamers are lazy hypocrites who whine about bugs in games they don't even own :)

Anyways...my two cents.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 12
- 8/2/2002 8:09:29 AM   
OKW-73

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 9/1/2001
From: Cyberspace, Finland
Status: offline 		I have 7.1 with LVMC + patches and im pretty happy with it...no major bugs this far, maybe some little but i think its fully playable and greatest freeware game i have ever seen before and i think i can wait Combat Leader, so they really should put their efforts on that and not make any patches to spwaw, but hey, its only my opinion ;)

_____________________________

"You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 13
- 8/2/2002 8:24:11 AM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		QC

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 14
- 8/2/2002 8:39:49 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		What hasn't been said, is when you buy a Mega Campaign all you are buying is the Mega Campaign (you are NOT buying Steel Panthers, its not sellable).

Sure a person can mistake having bought the Steel Panthers software, but Matrix can't sell Steel Panthers (any version, no one but SSI owns it regardless of modification).

That Matrix was able to put Steel Panthers on a cd that was being sold is just a matter of creative convenience (if they can give it away on their web site why complain if they give it away on cds containing proprietory software not belonging to SSI).

So any comment, to the effect, that a person has bought anything must be isolated to the Mega Campaign.

Now buying an add on program to an already old program is something a person should go into knowing that it is an add on to an old program (and all that entails).

Anyone that buys old software should know already, that old software often doesn't play nice with new hardware and software environments (if you didn't know this congradulations you know less than me, and that takes some doing hehe).

As I mentioned I just bought the original cd of Steel Panthers II.
I wasn't even the slightest bit annoyed it didn't auto install on my XP system (I really didn't expect it to).
I have Steel Panthers III in my Win 98 environment, makes sense that I would likely be installing Steel Panthers II in there, so I did.

I paid 20 bucks US to get the copy of Steel Panthers II (came with the scenarios disk as well). I could have said screw it I have SPMBT why get the original unmodified game. But I like having the original thing normally (mistakes included, actually I dont aaaaaaaalways agree with people when they say "it's not done right").

I have the patch for SPMBT (just haven't gotten around to worrying over a game that is low man on the totem pole right now). It might solve the mouse thing (I wouldn't mind but it's not important enough to worry over).

But this conversation would not be occuring, this product would not have interested me, I wouldn't have found I wanted SPII and SP III in the first place if Matrix hadn't provided me with the windows friendly earlier version of their effort that became SPWaW (I used to hate trying to installing or running Steel Panthers).

That they gave us one upgrade after another is not only commendable, it's downright unusual in this world today. There is normally no free lunch eh. What is free is rarely worth anything.
And yet here we sit while some of us quibble that their free game is not up to standards!!!

Man it's incredible. If I had a free product for offer, and someone implied I was not performing my duty sufficiently to the consumer, if that widely accepted, massively popular, freebie was not 100%, well I would have words for that customer, and they would not be pretty, and I would not be hurt if that "customer" never darkened my doorstep further.

But that is me.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 15
GYBLIN, you may as well get used to the fact... - 8/2/2002 8:42:53 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		...that SPWaW 7.1 was the FINAL game version. As an analogy, if you're a Star Trek fan, as I am, then regard 7.1 as the last movie with Jim Kirk and Spock. The Next Generation is Combat Leader. There is NO turning back. Now, IF someone were to get hold of the code, then you could tweak it to your heart's content. Matrix is apparently bound by contract to keep the SPWaW code under lock & key. You may want to inquire whether the code will ever enter the public domain. If you go with the official Matrix position, then SPWaW, as far as they are concerned, is a discontinued project. It's only fair to say that the company has done us wargamers a great service for making this available, BUT it was this game that launched Matrix into the awareness of wargamers like you and me, so they'll be forever associated with it, whether they like it or not. Before Paul Vebber jumps on me for this, I will say that Matrix has EARNED all of the praise they've gotten for their efforts, and they ARE, as far as I'm concerned, truly dedicated to advancing the art of wargame design. You only have to look at the quantum leap from SPWAW 2.1 to 7.1 to see what I mean. I've bitched & moaned as much as the next guy for some of the things they've done, BUT, they DO listen to us bitchers & moaners, and IF we have something useful to offer, they're willing to listen. I may be preaching to the converted, but there it is.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 16
- 8/2/2002 9:10:09 AM   
GYBLIN

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: ocala florida
Status: offline 		Ok Guys please dont blast me as whining.i started the thread to see if anyone else out there felt as strong as i do about the situation.I've seen alot of threads about "7.1 crashing" and why does my game go blank when i do x.Plus add in the millions of oob bitchers and why dont we have this feature and that feature.In this case this thread fails because not one person who has bitched about there game crashing has come here and spoken up.Must be those freebie lovers you guys are talking about.So i guess this is a wrap.Besides i have a little post it stuck to my monitor that tells me to save after every turn.:p




Respectfuly Gyblin

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 17
- 8/2/2002 9:17:30 AM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		To say you're buying the mega campaigns and the game is free is simply semantics. The megas won't run without the game. If there are flaws in the game they will carry over to the megas. So if there are flaws in the game they should be fixed at least for the folks who bought the megas.

I don't personally find flaws in the game. It seems fine to me. But I only play occasionally since I play other games too. I only say IF there are flaws because someone who plays much more than I do says there are.

I don't plan on buying CL. My computer won't handle it and I feel like I've upgraded enough in the last 20 years. And I have plenty of games I don't need another. So since I spent money on the megas I'd like spwaw without bugs. I haven't found any but if they're there I'd sure like them fixed.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 18
- 8/2/2002 9:31:56 AM   
G_X

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 7/7/2002
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline 		The Megas all come with the game to my knowledge, all you pay for is the MC's themselves, they come with a copy of the game since you're quite correct, it is required, but you're not paying for it.


No one ~forced~ you to buy the MC's, you could have done what I did, and downloaded it. I want to buy the MC's because they'll add to the gameplay I get out of the game, and for no other reason.

It's not semantics to say the game is free. It is. The MC's are not games, they are expansion packs if you will, to the game, which was free. They're not required in any way/shape/form, and therefore, the game, which is free, is free.

I don't understand what you mean by saying it's semantics, except that you are complaining that you payed money for a buggy product, and I kinda doubt that's what you're saying. If you think you deserve a fix just because you payed for the MC's, I agree, the MC's should work perfectly, there should be nothing wrong with them, but the game was still free, and if there are bugs, you didn't pay for it's development and distribution, so I don't see you having a valid point about the core game files using the argument that you paid for the MC's...I am understanding what you're saying, right? If not, please, elaborate, I'm tired and my brain's not alltogether with me, so if this doesn't make sense to you, tell me.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 19
Just another comment - 8/2/2002 9:41:14 AM   
chief


Posts: 1660
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: Haines City FL, USA
Status: offline 		I have played this game since I found ver3 on a disc in a mag. I have never had a CTD while playing SPWaW in all that time, I have all MC's and have had no failures in MCNA and no failures playing PBEM. I upgraded to 7.1 with the help of a fellow gamer, my machine is a P2 w 2 Gbs HD. Maybe, just maybe, an old game updated likes an old somewhat dated machine. I'm waiting for the last patch and I intend to keep playing till I run out scenarios or the big guy upstairs says stop. With the stash of excellent scenarios from many fellow gamers I will probably never get to the end. I can't afford to upgrade for CL so that's out of the question. I Thank MATRIX for an excellent 3 plus years of gaming enjoyment. There I said it and I'm glad, play the game and enjoy it, it's only a game, and it's free. GWITCHYABELLYACHING.:cool:

_____________________________

"God Bless America and All the Young men and women who give their all to protect Her"....chief

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 20
- 8/2/2002 9:56:38 AM   
tiggwigg

 

Posts: 118
Joined: 5/17/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		Of course purchasing MC's doesn't purchase SPWAW…and perhaps some people have spent US$100 on their MC's…being an Australian with delivery I have spent closer over AUD$300…is there a game out there that costs that much? Sure I would like a new version of SPWAW…a lot of people have spent money on MC's would , but that doesn't make it worth maintaining further…

Paul has said responses to MC's have been poor…to get income from SPWAW Matrix have to build MC's, which have a significant cost overhead in themselves…at US$25 each, after production costs, they get less than $20…after business overheads your probably looking at $10…if they sell 2000, that comes to $20,000…which is the cost of a good developer for about 10 weeks…that would barely pay for the cost of the "bug" fixes…let alone the cost of the MC that would have to be built to go with it…MC's, like the SPWAW updates, have all been built free as a gift to us fans by people who care…matrix has now become a business concern, so is there anyway that matrix, as a financial concern, can afford to keep developing a product which is nothing but a financial drain and an emotional strain on the company and its staff.

As Les_the_Sarge says, let's wait for Combat Leader…if I am going to pay anymore, it isn't for an update to a venerable game for which the main failings are that the conceptual premise on which the game was built is too complex for the AI to work with. SPWAW is a great moderator of PBEM or H2H games, where both sides are human…but as an AI vs human game it fails dismally…the AI has no tactical versatility, all it can do in attack is charge forward into the human players waiting guns, and in defense form a front-line which takes virtually no consideration of the macro-terrain…find one end and you can pull it undone like a loose thread. Scenarios, including those in MC's, are better but generally end-up relying on the AI receiving an advantage in forces to create an even game…how many times have I found that in attack, the defenders actually have more units than me…no commander would willingly commit his forces without a 2:1 local superiority…but you can in SPWAW cause the AI is so stupid…this often makes AI opponent scenarios disastrous for PBEM, because it gives the AI-surrogate opponent an unreal advantage in units.

These, to me, are the real bugs in SPWAW, and they can't be fixed without a new game engine, hence Combat Leader.

What has frequently come out in forums is that the "bug" fixes requested are not programming errors or system design glitches that need to be fixed. Instead they are about changing game parameters to fit different player preferences. Along the may the last few real bugs have been fixed (like the synch and jugo bugs), either by code or game process. These changes to game parameters have meant some changes to code, which risks more bugs…that means lots and lots and LOTS of testing to minimise them, then follow-up builds to patch any more that are found…it just isn't worthwhile continuing to band-aid an old system when it is past its use-by date. The only way to go forward is by building a new game engine that resolves problems

SPWAW has gone through many updates…versions 4, 5, 6 and 7 are really variations of the same game on the same game engine…each version worked on its own merits as a game…each version has changed slightly the game management system based on player requests…version 4 infantry was overly vulnerable when fired at from close range; so version 5/6 made them tougher in cover and introduced overrun/melee to avoid it taking 20 turns to eliminate routed infantry; version 6 had armour shot routines that failed to reflect armour quality/type/ammo, so version 7 was implemented to resolve that. All these versions are playable in themselves…95% of the effort that went into each release was enhancement, 5% was bug fixes…better to spend that 95% enhancement effort on a new game.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 21
- 8/2/2002 11:11:08 AM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		(big sigh) Let me try again. I understand when you get tired it's hard to think clearly.

I haven't seen any bugs. But I only play occasionally. If there are really bugs left after 7.1 they should be fixed. I'm not talking about oobs or desired features I'm talking about bugs.

The game is free. But the megas aren't and they depend on the game. If the game has bugs then it affects the megas which cost money. The megas won't play properly on a game with bugs.

But I haven't seen any. Are there really bugs in 7.1? Has anyone reported an honest to god bug?

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 22
- 8/2/2002 11:49:16 AM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		If my version 7.1 became totally unplayable tomorrow, I would have the value of hundreds of movie tickets for the hours of entertainment I have received for free.
I heard about wargammer.com and SPWAW from pcgamer magazine. That lead me to all the other games and forums that I enjoy daily. Play the free game to gain experience in tactics then wait for the new games to come out.
I have learned to look for a patch as soon as I install a new game, before I even play it. It almost seems like the other game companies purposely put in bugs to cut down on counterfiting and copying.
I for one am not afraid to buy a game from Matrix. Most of us have lost more money on stocks or in casinos than a game will cost.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 23
- 8/2/2002 12:10:52 PM   
G_X

 

Posts: 518
Joined: 7/7/2002
From: Atlanta, Georgia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by rich12545
[B](big sigh) Let me try again. I understand when you get tired it's hard to think clearly.

I haven't seen any bugs. But I only play occasionally. If there are really bugs left after 7.1 they should be fixed. I'm not talking about oobs or desired features I'm talking about bugs.

The game is free. But the megas aren't and they depend on the game. If the game has bugs then it affects the megas which cost money. The megas won't play properly on a game with bugs.

But I haven't seen any. Are there really bugs in 7.1? Has anyone reported an honest to god bug? [/B][/QUOTE]

It makes sense now, thank you...sorry about that, sorry.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 24
- 8/2/2002 6:25:38 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		I have heard that Desert fox had a few snags (and patches might exist), also heard that Lost Victories had some oddities (and I know they have patches cause I have them myself), not sure about Watch Tower never heard anything about it having any troubles.

This could also be entirely connected to the fact that Desert Fox was made with a version earlier than 7.1, and Lost Victories was made just as 7.0 was being introduced. It is obvious the cds can't be made with a game that is newer than was around when MCs were designed of course.

People could poooooooosibly be discouraged if they buy a Mega Campaign for a game they know is great (but continuing to evolve at that point), and find that the MC has a slight hitch in it's smooth running.

Of course if we the players had not forced through whining, several (ok make the dozens) of upgrades from original Steel Panthers through to 7.1, it is well possible the Mega Campaigns could be a lot more numerous than 3 eh.
We would possibly also see that the game had several MCs that were made that all employed the exact same version of the game.

But we gamers are never truuuuuuely satisfied. I watched the posts people I was there. Most of the posts had nothing to do with actual "bugs". To me a bug is something like "the game crashes when I go to save game". That is clearly a sftware problem.
I DID see a lot of people commenting that this tank is done wrong, or why are my infantry so lame, or I thought mortars should do better. This isn't a software flaw, this is a personal opinion area.
But to adjust armour performances, or make infantry behave inherently different, or retool the effect artillery has requires a lot of doodling in the game.
And when you doodle in the game, you invite human error.

I think most of the bugs would never have arrived if the game had sat around being played while MCs were made to promote it, and had been left alone. It is well nigh possible that Matrix could have ended up where they are today, if they had become known as the premiere producer of ooodles of MCs for what was even back at the earlier versions like 3 or 4 still a great game.

I didn't start playing Steel Panthers because of 7.1. And it wasn't a Mega Campaign either. I was hooked by the very first incarnation (the one you had to buy from SSI). I gained it by purchasing the complied wargames set marketed as The Complete Wargames Collection (sadly Steel Panthers is the only game on the cd worth playing too).

There is no way to know where Matrix would be if they had just stopped with the versions back at 4 and only released a few patches for reeeeeeeeally obvious bugs (which you had to add to version 4 with no calling it 4.12345 etc.). I am not sure that they would have suffered if they had just made MC after MC making each a bit better, and making more in each case while waiting for them to eventually gain in popularity. The first MC would cost more to make cause it would be fewer items and smaller sales I suppose.
But would it have been better in the long run if they had devoted their time to marketing MCs instead of endlessly tweaking the game (hard to say). Time is money, and they sure used a lot of time on those versions.

But here I sit with a Lost Victories cd. And I consider myself lucky, because I doubt many actually have a MC, and I will wager a lot would like one, but missed the chance, or just never had the chance period (some just won't have the cash).
Only reason I don't have Desert Fox and Watch Tower is a I had to pick just one (cash limitations).

I am aware that it has a few "bugs" although I have yet to encounter them. Reason being in spite of my obvious interest in the game, I can't play one aspect of it to death all the same (real life always seems to intrude eventually eh). That and I don't always just play one aspect of Steel Panthers. I currently have a long campaign going as Germans. I just sweated through a looooong fight against British in the desert. I had become soft with 3 cake walk games, the I hit a brick wall and had to earn the 4th. I often play a turn then quit game (because I can't sit to long playing the game, health factor there). The game is something I sip at mostly. A campaign is like a good book I don't rush it.
I could probably play Lost Victories for 2 years and never see the bug that caused me to download the patches that I still haven't actually gotten around to installing eh.

Bugs are I think something that routinely happen to people that play the game way to long:D

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 25
- 8/2/2002 7:53:44 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by GYBLIN
[B]Ok Guys please dont blast me as whining.i started the thread to see if anyone else out there felt as strong as i do about the situation.I've seen alot of threads about "7.1 crashing" and why does my game go blank when i do x.Plus add in the millions of oob bitchers and why dont we have this feature and that feature.In this case this thread fails because not one person who has bitched about there game crashing has come here and spoken up.Must be those freebie lovers you guys are talking about.So i guess this is a wrap.Besides i have a little post it stuck to my monitor that tells me to save after every turn.:p




Respectfuly Gyblin [/B][/QUOTE]

I suggest to all to try SPWAWH2H, Panzer leos MOD for SPWAW
The OOBS have been worked on alot as well as alot of other issues.
I would consider it an upgrade to SPWAW ver 7.1

_____________________________



(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 26
- 8/2/2002 8:12:04 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		Les the Sarge 9-1:
quote:

But we gamers are never truuuuuuely satisfied. I watched the posts people I was there. Most of the posts had nothing to do with actual "bugs". To me a bug is something like "the game crashes when I go to save game". That is clearly a sftware problem.


If you're going to recall history, which is vital to the point quoted above, you've better recall all of it. The point that a majority of the posts weren't concerning bugs is irrelevant, when David et al encouraged people to do more than just report bugs; asking how to improve the game for a start. Maybe some think that Matrix should've never bothered with what they might call a trivial waste of time, but in so doing they are proving their lack of vision. It it necessary to recall that SPWAW was a launching board for other endeavors, one might dare say, even an experimental pad for following games. With limited vision it may seem irrelevant to 'improve' the game, the greater vision sees quite clearly that it wasn't a useless, thankless affair. Cl would suffer GREATLY had it not been for soem of the talks not concerning bugs that had gone on. I'm convinced of that.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 27
- 8/2/2002 9:40:49 PM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by G_X
[B]

It makes sense now, thank you...sorry about that, sorry. [/B][/QUOTE]


No Problem. :D

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 28
- 8/2/2002 9:42:04 PM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alby
[B]

I suggest to all to try SPWAWH2H, Panzer leos MOD for SPWAW
The OOBS have been worked on alot as well as alot of other issues.
I would consider it an upgrade top SPWAW ver 7.1 [/B][/QUOTE]


I thought the h2h was some sort of multi mod. Is it compatible with everything including the megas?

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 29
- 8/2/2002 9:46:22 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Possibly Charles....possibly.

I think though, that the people that did all the fussing were always capable of producing Combat Leader all a long (I don't think they "needed" SPWaW as a learning tool).

It is a matter of debate that will never see resolution (because we can't go back in time and find out really).

Would Combat Leader suffer from Matrix having NOT spent all the effort fussing on SPWaW?

I am expecting (sadly I suppose), to see Combat Leader get released and get fairly mauled over by people convinced, that a solid year(s) effort designing it "was not in their considered opinion, enough".
Yes I truely expect this to happen.

The only difference will be, people lining up wailing how they spent good cash for it, and now Matrix has no choice but to address all their beefs.

I am looking forward to my first copy of Combat Leader (not looking forward to finding the cash though). I am also looking forward to playing it "as is" without much interest in complaining.

My only worry is can I manage the video card upgrade I am going to need to be able to run it at all. Starting in September I will likely be dropping not even remotely subtle hints that if a video card ain't under the tree in December, my Christmas won't mean anything to me present wise. Fortunately my hole card is the wife and son will gain a perk out of the upgrade as well.

Endless tirades on how Combat Leader is wrong this way or wrong that way better be veeeeeery good though, or expect Sarge to be breathing fire on your posts eh.

Posts exclaiming how it is the greatest game even crafted of course are permssable hehe:D

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to GYBLIN)
Post #: 30
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