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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Mines

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Mines - 8/2/2002 1:03:41 AM

Forrest37

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Just started my first senario #17 as the Allies and was wondering about the importance/effectiveness of mines. I think at the beginning I can only use submarines to mine. Anyone have some experience doing this or results/lessons learned to share? Thanks in advance...Bill

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Re: Mines - 8/2/2002 1:32:11 AM

Long Lance

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Forrest37
[B]Just started my first senario #17 as the Allies and was wondering about the importance/effectiveness of mines. I think at the beginning I can only use submarines to mine. Anyone have some experience doing this or results/lessons learned to share? Thanks in advance...Bill [/B][/QUOTE]

Yepp, the first DM arrive end of May, so you can only use subs to mine. I tried as the Japanese mining a hex near Rabaul resulting in one AP ond the Shoho being damaged by mines. My mines! This was in V 1.11, perhaps these problems don't occur in 1.20. I agree to that what was told by some guy somewhere in this forum: Mines didn't play that role in the PTO, because both navy's doctrines were offensive ones. So I don't lay mines, because I'm on the attack, and so I don't need to defend anything, especially when there's a high possibility of wrecking my own ships.

(in reply to Forrest37)

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I believe - 8/2/2002 2:03:11 AM

doomonyou

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that if you lay mines in your own port hexes they are far less likely to hit your own ships and I believe help protect against bombardment or invasion

I have had some success as the allies mining known enemy transit points in shallow watter (s on the f2 key display). There is little more statisfying that the message that you sunk some small craft like a pc or a dd with a mine you laid three months ago and forgot about two RL weeks ago....

(in reply to Forrest37)

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Re: I believe - 8/2/2002 2:22:36 AM

rhohltjr

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From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by doomonyou
[B]that if you lay mines in your own port hexes they are far less likely to hit your own ships and I believe help protect against bombardment or invasion ...

[/B][/QUOTE]
Vs 1.20
Bombardment missions have not even slowed down.

I managaged (in #17 as Allies)to keep Gili Gili by help from another thread poster, and mined GGili with subs and twice now with the DMs.

The Japanese Bmbrdment missions don't even give the mines a second thought. Not a mine hit yet.
In fact I believe I can hear the Japanese sailors shouting the equivalent of 'I F**T in your general direction!!! as they steam past and my base goes boom. My surface warfare fleets do force the Japanese bombardment groups to expend their ammo by becoming 'Swiss', :mad: and the PT boats are just kindling now. :(

(in reply to Forrest37)

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Re: Re: I believe - 8/2/2002 2:33:03 AM

Sonny

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by rhohltjr
[B]
V.........
In fact I believe I can hear the Japanese sailors shouting the equivalent of 'I F**T in your general direction!!! .... [/B][/QUOTE]

Was your mother a hamster? Did your father smell of eldeberries?

The only thing to do in this situation is to go away before the Japanese taunt you again.:D

(in reply to Forrest37)

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Re: Re: Re: I believe mines don't stop anything big n m... - 8/2/2002 2:50:36 AM

rhohltjr

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sonny
[B]

The only thing to do in this situation is to go away before the Japanese taunt you again.:D [/B][/QUOTE]

Thankfully for the guys on GGili. the runways have so many craters it's not hard to find one when the shelling starts again. I did issue M1A1 earplugs for taunts though :D

(in reply to Forrest37)

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- 8/2/2002 4:59:57 AM

siRkid

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One tactic is to mine shallow areas in the hope the enemy will discover them and then be forced to divert around the area. If this is done correctly, you can hinder some of the Jap bombardment missions and slow down supplies and reinforcements.

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Re: Re: I believe - 8/2/2002 9:45:54 AM

JohnK

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by rhohltjr
[B]
Vs 1.20
Bombardment missions have not even slowed down.

I managaged (in #17 as Allies)to keep Gili Gili by help from another thread poster, and mined GGili with subs and twice now with the DMs.

The Japanese Bmbrdment missions don't even give the mines a second thought. Not a mine hit yet.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I haven't seen a detailed bathymetric map but many of the bombardable locations in UV can be bombarded by heavy units, with the heavy units NEVER having to get close enough to get into water shallow enough to realistically mine.

No Japanese night bombardment force EVER had a heavy unit hit a mine in the real campaign. Why do people constantly complain about not being able to cause things to happen that never happened in the real campaign?

(in reply to Forrest37)

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Re: Re: Mines - 8/2/2002 9:50:45 AM

JohnK

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Long Lance
[B]

Yepp, the first DM arrive end of May, so you can only use subs to mine. [/B][/QUOTE]

Keep in mind if you're interested in realism you shouldn't use Argonaut to do so. Proven beyond a shadow of a doubt she had no mine capability at all during the UV period. I'd insist on no Argonaut mines in a PBEM game. Of course, unfortunately, Argonaut SHOULD have a couple of rear Torpedo tubes she doesn't have in the game, too.

(in reply to Forrest37)

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Re: Re: I believe - 8/2/2002 9:51:48 AM

JohnK

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by rhohltjr
[B]
Vs 1.20
Bombardment missions have not even slowed down.

I managaged (in #17 as Allies)to keep Gili Gili by help from another thread poster, and mined GGili with subs and twice now with the DMs.

The Japanese Bmbrdment missions don't even give the mines a second thought. Not a mine hit yet.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I haven't seen a detailed bathymetric map but many of the bombardable locations in UV can be bombarded by heavy units, with the heavy units NEVER having to get close enough to get into water shallow enough to realistically mine.

No Japanese night bombardment force EVER hit a mine in the real campaign. Why do people constantly complain about not being able to cause things to happen, that never happened in the real campaign?

(in reply to Forrest37)

Post #: 10

Re: Re: Re: I believe - 8/2/2002 9:29:59 PM

rhohltjr

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From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnK
[B]

..... Why do people constantly complain about not being able to cause things to happen, that never happened in the real campaign? [/B][/QUOTE]

JohnK: I was responding to

...and I believe help protect against bombardment or invasion

by Doomonyou.

I was not complaining, I was stating what I had observed after mining Gili Gili, ...and getting repeatedly bombarded. Thanks for your clarification though.

(in reply to Forrest37)

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- 8/2/2002 9:44:37 PM

thantis

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Unfortunately, early in the campaign you have to use your surface forces as bait to slow down the Japanese bombardment task forces. If you're lucky, you can get in enough hits to slow them down and have your land-based aircraft hit them in the morning.

I had one of my ships hit a mine outside of Rabaul during one of my allied bombardment runs - but that was it. The mines work well to keep invasion forces away (or at least honest). This can work wonders at Gili Gili, since you know there's an invasion force on its way - especially early on.

Too bad its too early for air-dropped mines. B-29 missions just about closed down Japanese intercoastal shipping in 1945.

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- 8/2/2002 11:16:05 PM

Toro

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Considering the scale of the game (30 mile hexes), and the number of mines dropped by any one ship (40, I think? even 80 isn't many), that any mine hits occur is fortunate. I use them all the time, and have had relatively good success. I've managed to damage the Yamato (drove her back to port before shelling PM) as well as a couple cruisers, and a number of smaller ships (DDs and APs).

Definitely use them, but don't think they're going to win the war for you, and don't expect them to be a primary line of defense (or offense). They're just another tool which might cause a bit of damage here and there.

(in reply to Forrest37)

Post #: 13