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IJN ASW TF React

 
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IJN ASW TF React - 6/30/2010 6:14:04 PM   
vonSchnitter


Posts: 310
Joined: 7/2/2004
From: Germany - still
Status: offline 		Call me names - any names - as long as you come up with pointers

I have seen it happen - an IJN ASW TF (DDs) - reacting to a sub close to Yokohama.
But this is some 30 turns past - probably including a public beta or two.

Any pointers ?
Pretty, Please ..
Post #: 1
RE: IJN ASW TF React - 6/30/2010 6:18:31 PM   
hkbhsi

 

Posts: 96
Joined: 4/22/2007
From: Rome, Italy
Status: offline 		If you mean that your DDs on ASW duty do not react to enemy subs, I have the exact opposit experience. In fact my DDs usually chase Allied subs over long distances ending up many hexes away from their designated patrol area. If I am not careful many units will chase a single sub almost to Pearl Harbour leaving the zone I want to patrol unprotected. I just have them set on patrol with a reaction radius of 6.

(in reply to vonSchnitter)
Post #: 2
RE: IJN ASW TF React - 6/30/2010 6:24:09 PM   
vonSchnitter


Posts: 310
Joined: 7/2/2004
From: Germany - still
Status: offline 		Erm ...

my question is Scen 1 related - through a few patches/betas/QFs. Should have mentioned that

Anyway: What scen and what settings ?
I would love to see my ASW assets go wild - sort of

(in reply to hkbhsi)
Post #: 3
RE: IJN ASW TF React - 6/30/2010 6:27:32 PM   
jetjockey


Posts: 256
Joined: 11/23/2009
Status: offline 		What kind of pointers are you looking for?

(in reply to vonSchnitter)
Post #: 4
RE: IJN ASW TF React - 6/30/2010 6:40:48 PM   
vonSchnitter


Posts: 310
Joined: 7/2/2004
From: Germany - still
Status: offline 		Well, JJ

since my (IJN) ASW assets do nothing - AI game Jan 43 - or so it appears - any pointers are welcome:
DD tfs - no react - in port - docked or undocked - or on patrol
SC tfs - no react - same as above
PB tfs - no react
PBs in convois at least retaliate.

ASW trained AGs - report hits, no results
Combinations of AG and ASW no results


(in reply to jetjockey)
Post #: 5
RE: IJN ASW TF React - 6/30/2010 8:10:24 PM   
jetjockey


Posts: 256
Joined: 11/23/2009
Status: offline 		How does this sound?

SC & PB ASW TFs >>> useless; will only attract torpedoes from time to time.

Escort ASW TFs >>> OK.

DD ASW TFs >>> better.

DD ASW TFs under air-ASW search arc >>> best!

{best ASW TFs >>> DD pairs, lead DD CO optimized, with TF placed on patrol, computer controlled, with react range set to 6}.


Theory: 1) Place several DD ASW TFs near vital areas (I have 5 around the home islands), but not in a port. Cover these areas well with air assets, and wait to swat the flies. Kills will be few, but you will send the offending subs limping home.


2) For kills you must form Hunter-Killer groups. Reserve two or three of your best DD pairs as a mobile reserve and deploy to important areas; invasion routes, to cover a CV movement, or towards a concentration of enemy subs. Do not relent. Attack-attack-attack! I found four SSs in port after damaging them with DCs and finished them off with airpower. Of all the Depth Charge sinkings, only one was from an escorting vessel, all others were from H-K group attacks. H-K groups can pursue SSs for days, finishing damaged subs, escorts can't.


I'm now six months into my first PBEM and have included this screen-shot for your use.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to vonSchnitter)
Post #: 6
RE: IJN ASW TF React - 6/30/2010 8:10:53 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline 		Air search (not ASW) works well with ASW TF's on react 6 , as stated be careful else they will wander all over the place. Check the ASW group leaders you need high aggressions and high haval skill to 1)react 2)accurately prosecute the attack.

This works fine for me , hope it helps in your game Schnitter.

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(in reply to vonSchnitter)
Post #: 7
RE: IJN ASW TF React - 7/1/2010 1:42:32 AM   
jcjordan

 

Posts: 1900
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline 		In my game, my asw forces seldom react to a subs but they do attack if the sub attacks a ship in the tf or it spots the sub on the surface. It does help if you've got patrol planes w/ good naval search skill. If the air units also have a good asw as well as a low naval attack skill helps as well in them getting a shot in. I normally have my asw tf patrol known sub areas plus I may dispatch one to a sighted sub & have it sit on the hex.

(in reply to Rob Brennan UK)
Post #: 8
RE: IJN ASW TF React - 7/1/2010 2:42:27 AM   
Misconduct


Posts: 1864
Joined: 2/18/2009
From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
Status: offline 		What you have to do as allies, is keep your subs 5-6 HEX away from an enemy base, if its a major naval base then back off a little more. Right now I am around 7/43 and I have 2 subs sunk total. I have adopted a defensive war for my subs before 43 to use as extra scouts and also so I can deploy them in a strategy that seems fit when needed. Example - 7/42 I started a defensive strategy where Moresby had subs lined all way around Rubaul and Truk, in 43 I adopted an offensive strategy when I was going to take Guam and put 48 subs around Guam - 5 hex away from the islands, north to west to south covering.

So far I have 68 ships sunk: 3 carriers, 3 battleships, 4 CA
Subs lost: 5 - 4 from Escort, 1 from LBA

Biggest Tip I can offer, don't put a sub 40 miles from Japan or any allies naval base you know are probably occupied by LBA, once LBA spots, then you can be sure Escorts will follow.

< Message edited by Misconduct -- 7/1/2010 2:44:39 AM >

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(in reply to jcjordan)
Post #: 9
RE: IJN ASW TF React - 7/1/2010 9:02:05 AM   
bklooste

 

Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline 		Air search is the most important thing for Japan ASW.... Also ASW is usless in 42 except for training but from 43 you will get significant improvements .

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Post #: 10
RE: IJN ASW TF React - 7/1/2010 4:48:37 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Look at your ships and TF. What is the TF commanders rating? What are the skill levels of the crews? Remember Japanese crews have reduced skills for ASW warfare. Do they have radar? What is their speed? And are you using them in cooperation with air search? All of these are factors. I set my Allied ASW to 3 react and that works well but remember all of these factors above should be a factor in whether or not your ships will react. Don't expect miracles from Japanese ASW. I have an email going and my Japanese opponent is doing a decent job on my subs. Historical losses for the Allies were about one sub a month. You should be able to better that.

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Post #: 11
RE: IJN ASW TF React - 7/2/2010 4:02:57 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		If air search is really that good in combination with ASW taskforces what is air ASW patrol good for then ?
I aks because i try to protect my coasts (AI game as japan in april 42) with air assets on ASW patrol
combined with ships on ASW. All i can say yet is that PB´s are useless crap for this task. Mostly when i
successful attack a enemy sub by own ships a DD is involved.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 12
RE: IJN ASW TF React - 7/2/2010 4:25:18 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seille

If air search is really that good in combination with ASW taskforces what is air ASW patrol good for then ?
I aks because i try to protect my coasts (AI game as japan in april 42) with air assets on ASW patrol
combined with ships on ASW. All i can say yet is that PB´s are useless crap for this task. Mostly when i
successful attack a enemy sub by own ships a DD is involved.



ASW air units will attack the subs much more frequently than an air search unit on patrol. (If the ASW skills are there) But as for ASW TF reaction, a spot is a spot. It is the detection level of the sub that will determin the chance of the TF reaction, and I don't think a spot from a searching plane is any different from a spot from an ASW plane. The benefit to air seaching over ASW is range more than anything else, the drawback is hardly no attacks.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 13
RE: IJN ASW TF React - 7/2/2010 4:55:58 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Mhh, in my game i use a mix of ASW patrol/ASW training and over a long time i got tons of attacks.
Since i´m a new player who want to see the effect of his ideas i open from time to time the
allied turn. Mostly to see the ship (sub) losses. Sadly my ASW patrol attack often, but only make holes into the water.
So the report that a sub was hit by ASW patrol in true in maybe 10% of the cases in my AI game.

When my japanese coast was infested by allied subs i decided to use some plane groups as well as surface ships to hunt them
and since i did not fear enemy surface ships and saw the many "sub hit by bomb" -messages i´ve set most of the groups to ASW patrol.

I´ll switch some of them to naval search and see the results. Maybe the increased range will show some effect.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 14
RE: IJN ASW TF React - 7/2/2010 7:03:39 PM   
vonSchnitter


Posts: 310
Joined: 7/2/2004
From: Germany - still
Status: offline 		Well seille,

I am pretty much of your thinking.
I am just playing the AI in Scen 1 to assess my options.
And guess what - the IJ Sub hit reports are largely bogus - whatever their training level - or specialty. Only exp - reducing op losses - has any significant impact.
Things may be different in different Scenarios or playing PBM or AI - not to speak of patch levels.

cheers


(in reply to seille)
Post #: 15
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