Hello ! Anyone Awake at Port Moresby ?

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Hello ! Anyone Awake at Port Moresby ?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Tech Support >> Hello ! Anyone Awake at Port Moresby ?

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Hello ! Anyone Awake at Port Moresby ? - 7/26/2002 1:45:02 AM

Black Cat

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At 10/42 I have been waiting for a least 12 turns for the 3 high Experience, full supply, no fatigue, LBA set at Naval Strike at PM to start attacking the enemy AP`s ( not barges ) that have been spotted by Recon docked and coming and going near Lae...nothing, no matter what the weather, clear, cloudy, overcast, no matter they just doze away....zzzzzzz..

On another problem, what does it take to fully surpress an Airfield ?

I have been Bombing Lae with 2 Sq`s of B-17`s and 3 Sq`s of B-25`s, all high morale & experience in high supply, usually getting 30-40 bombers in the strikes and reporting 30+ runway damage, while never seeing any enemy aircraft damaged on the ground, which is odd in it self.

After _5_ of these strikes, Lae still managed to launch _several_ 5-12 Nells and Betty strikes across the Solomon Seas to Rendova and sink an AP, and heavly damage a BB and 2 CA`s....hmmmm:eek:

My cost in Supply to keep this modest PM Air Campaign going is IMMENSE , the results are indifferent, and I don`t have the transport to keep it going from the Brisbane SWPac. HQ supply head without stripping South Pacific HQ of most of their AP`s and sending them to Brisbane..:confused:

BTW: I have sustained modest losses in AK`s and AP`s so that`s not an issue here.

As our good Brit friends say, clearly " the Game is not worth the candle" as far as a sustained bombing campaign....

Something seems not quite right here, in the supply = transport availability equation.

Post #: 1

Re: Hello ! Anyone Awake at Port Moresby ? - 7/26/2002 1:56:45 AM

Posts: 3332
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From: V�ster�s,Sweden
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Black Cat
[B]At 10/42 I have been waiting for a least 12 turns for the 3 high Experience, full supply, no fatigue, LBA set at Naval Strike at PM to start attacking the enemy AP`s ( not barges ) that have been spotted by Recon docked and coming and going near Lae...nothing, no matter what the weather, clear, cloudy, overcast, no matter they just doze away....zzzzzzz..
[/B][/QUOTE]

How many fighter units do you have in PM? This happened to me too while testing and my units would simply not do anything until I moved fighter unites there (there is a rule about this). The ships I was trying to attack had LRCAP over it.

Otherwise it sounds really strange.

Dan

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Post #: 2

Response... - 7/26/2002 2:04:59 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
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From: Vermont, USA
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Black Cat,

Dan's probably right about the LRCAP. Try putting a squadron or two of fighters on Escort to see if that gets things going. Also, make sure you haven't accidentally set Naval Search up too high to leave aircraft for strikes.

Regarding sustained bombing, I haven't had any trouble shutting Lae down - it's one of my favorite early game things to do. I send the B-17s up from Cooktown while B-26s and B-25s pound it from PM. What altitude are you bombing from? Try 6,000 to 10,000 for best results. In my experience a week of this keeps the airfield shut down for at least several days. Even so, anyone flying out of it is taking significant operational losses and accumulating damage more rapidly.

Regards,

- Erik

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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Re: Re: Hello ! Anyone Awake at Port Moresby ? - 7/26/2002 2:07:02 AM

Black Cat

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by U2
[B]

How many fighter units do you have in PM? This happened to me too while testing and my units would simply not do anything until I moved fighter unites there (there is a rule about this). The ships I was trying to attack had LRCAP over it.

Otherwise it sounds really strange.

Dan [/B][/QUOTE]

The Airbase size is 9, there are 4 fighter Sq`s there all set to escort. All have good morale, low fatigue, good leadership, high kills score, etc, etc...

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Post #: 4

Thoughts... - 7/26/2002 2:33:46 AM

Erik Rutins

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I assume these squadrons are not some ultra short-range aircraft that can't reach Lae? What do you have for Naval Search assets in the area? Are the bombers assigned to Naval Attack assigned to another secondary mission? What is their Naval Search set to?

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 5

Re: Thoughts... - 7/26/2002 4:09:14 AM

Black Cat

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erik Rutins
[B]I assume these squadrons are not some ultra short-range aircraft that can't reach Lae? What do you have for Naval Search assets in the area? Are the bombers assigned to Naval Attack assigned to another secondary mission? What is their Naval Search set to?

Regards,

- Erik [/B][/QUOTE]

Erik

Here is the make up of the PM Sq`s. & missions. First the Avation. Support is 284, with 218 required. 5600 Supply 16000 Fuel at Base. Size 9 airbase.

98 BS B-17 Airfield Attack 25,000 feet
28 BS B-17 " "
93 BS B-17 " "

No 32 Sq Hudsons Recon 6000 feet

13 BS B-25 Mitchells Airfield Attack 5000 Feet
90 BS B-25 Mitchells " "

35 FS P-39 Escort Cap 90
75 FS P-40 Escort Cap 90
36 FS P-39 Escort Cap 40
76 FS P-40 Escort Cap 50

2 BS Mauraders Naval Attack Search Level 10
8 BS Havocs Naval Attack Search Level 10
30 BS Beaufighters Naval Attack Search Level 0

There are PBY`s in Buna and Gili Gili for Naval Search. ( and they do )

I realize the AF is over limit but always has been and functioned well in Naval Strike prior to this.

Any insights much appreciated.

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Post #: 6

Perfect - thanks Black Cat :) - 7/26/2002 7:56:23 AM

Rex Bellator

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From: Kent UK
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[QUOTE]At 10/42 I have been waiting for a least 12 turns for the 3 high Experience, full supply, no fatigue, LBA set at Naval Strike at PM to start attacking the enemy AP`s ( not barges ) that have been spotted by Recon docked and coming and going near Lae...nothing, no matter what the weather, clear, cloudy, overcast, no matter they just doze away....zzzzzzz.. [/QUOTE]

Please excuse me if I join this thread as my other one on the main forum isn't getting very far.

I have been asking for information on how the computer makes up a strike and about weather affecting missions. What I haven't said there yet is that this has been brought to a head by the repeated and continual virtual non-appearance of my aircraft at Port Moresby.

I have thrown in the towel on my PBEM game, as it has driven me nuts, and UV is now regrettably shelved. The last straw was a Jap convoy of 8 APs which spent 5 days sailing to, unloading at and leaving Lae. This was the last of several to do so with almost no interference from the 121 aircraft set to Naval Attack and in range at PM.

I had 2 sqds of Havocs, 2 sqds of Dauntlesses, 1 sqd Beauforts, 1 sqd P-39 as fighter bombers - all on Naval Attack/No secondary mission. 2 sqds P-400 escorts, 1 sqd P40 escorts at 50% CAP. 2 Sqds PBY on Naval Search. There was almost 30,000 supply, 400 air support, all sqds had high to perfect morale and little to no fatigue. PM is a size 9 airbase.

So I had 121 aircraft capable of a possible 2 sorties a day - 242 potential sorties in total. I focused on this AP convoy sailing in closely after several no-shows from PM against other TFs. For 5 days it was in range with a modest escort and no LR CAP. A maixmum potential 1,210 sorties was therefore possible over that period. How many were scambled in total? TWELVE, meaning an unbelievable 99% of the potential attacks did not materialise.

The weather was mixed - 1 Thunderstorm, 1 Overcast, 2 Partly Cloudy, 1 Clear. The 12 Havocs flew on the second half of the Clear day - the first half also being cancelled due to alleged bad weather. Now this isn't extreme bad luck - there is a problem. I have noted LBA 'no shows' are happening almost all the time to other TF targets, Black Cat has too.

We have a situation where on the very few occasions a raid does manage to get away at PM it usually consists of a tiny fraction of the total available strike force. I don't know if this is a problem exclusive to PM in particular either.

I put an awful lot of (up to recently) enjoyable time into that PBEM game, building PM up to dominate the surrounding area, to be a springboard for my offensive and to wither the nearby Jap bases by flattening 'sitting duck' supply convoys. Instead I found I had created an impotent white elephant, and just got incensed at the constant sight of enemy TFs wandering around it unmolested.

As another thread advised, the whole Pacific War was a question of seizing airbases for LBA to operate from. This is possibly the most vital area of the game, and needs looking at ASAP. I feel it is probably a combination of too high a chance of the weather cancelling missions and a faulty strike make up routine. Of course we need hard numbers and facts from Matrix to know what's really going on.

Ok, thanks to anyone who made it through that lot, sorry if it turned into a rant, and I hope we can see some action soon.

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- 7/26/2002 12:11:31 PM

willgamer

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Please feel free to totally disregard as I'm only 6 months into my first major campaign, but in my experience....

You need to use port attack, not naval attack, to get to supply ships that are unloading in a port. On rare occasions they seem to remain in the port hex, but outside the port and subject to naval attack. When I've used port attack it frequently sinks/damages the transports.

HTH.

Bill

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- 7/26/2002 2:19:02 PM

Jupo

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From: Finland
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Ships Docked in port are easy targets for bombers (like in Pearl Harbour).

I'll never dock ships for long periods in range of enemy bombers, just unload cargo and back to get more supplies as soon as cargo is unloaded.

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Post #: 9

- 7/28/2002 1:41:57 AM

Rex Bellator

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From: Kent UK
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Well, I've also tried Port attacks to no avail, in fact all that happened was that we promptly flew off and bombed an Infantry Regiment at Gili Gili :mad:

Prompted by the new patch I continued my PBEm game and with the same situation and am still seeing nothing flying out of Port Moresby.

C'mon Matrix, help us out here, this is crucial. Have you stopped supporting this game already? Please at least just let us know that this is noted and will be looked into.

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Post #: 10

Required Supply - 7/29/2002 6:58:11 AM

denisonh

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I know the quickest way to have bombing operations cease is to drop below two times the required supply.

So if PM requires 5000 supply, as soon as I drop down below 10,000 available supplies, bombing mission stop, especially if there are large numbers present.

As I have read in various threads, a high level of supplies need to be stockpiled before a major sustained bombing campaign is begun.

So FWIW, that might be something to look at if bombing operations all of a sudden cease.

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Post #: 11

Re: Required Supply - 7/29/2002 7:31:15 AM

Black Cat

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by denisonh
[B]I know the quickest way to have bombing operations cease is to drop below two times the required supply.

So if PM requires 5000 supply, as soon as I drop down below 10,000 available supplies, bombing mission stop, especially if there are large numbers present.

As I have read in various threads, a high level of supplies need to be stockpiled before a major sustained bombing campaign is begun.

So FWIW, that might be something to look at if bombing operations all of a sudden cease. [/B][/QUOTE]"

FYI

In my current game PM has a size 9 airfield, has 9 Air units assigned.

PM has 34,733 Supply.

It requires 6289 Supply.

The Air Support is 316

It requires 189.

In the past 30 turns it has launched 2 small Anti Shipping Strikes whilst Japanese Supply/Troop TF`s slowly plow to and from Gili Gili & Lae..back and forth they go in peace....

On one turn a US CV TF ambushed a Bombardment TF as it rounded Gili Gili, 2 30+ AC waves of SBD`s reducing BB Haruna to a smoking wreck making 3 knots...

The US CV`s left the area leaving the Haruna to the Air at PM...

Over the next 10 turns Haruna, spotted by Recon (the 2 naval search units in PM) , crawled up to Rabaul at 3 knots without drawing a single Airstrike...it was in range for at least 6 turns, meanwhile the Enemy Supply TF`s plow back & forth , back & forth...while the Bomb Sq`s brew Tea.....

Now I take the time to post all this for two reasons.

1. The Air Not Attacking TF`s problem at PM is not operator error on my part, based on the Manual and the best available Info that Matrix has posted on these Forums & in The Patch Docs..

2. The BB Haurna case is atypical, not an isolated incident.

This really needs to be fixed or more likly fine tuned.

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Post #: 12

- 8/2/2002 4:13:43 AM

Rex Bellator

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From: Kent UK
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A hopeful *bump* :)

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Post #: 13

A quick reply... - 8/2/2002 5:10:01 AM

Erik Rutins

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Okay, I'll make an attempt to contribute a bit more info.

First, Black Cat, please send me the pertinent info, etc. A zipped save wherein I can duplicate an inexplicable series of non-attacks would be very helpful. I tried setting up some test cases here and PM pounded any approaching TFs into the ocean. Assuming everything is set as you describe, there has to be some kind of bizarre bug or very special case hidden in there somewhere.

Second, Rex, you'll be pleased to hear that the next patch decreases the chance of a base being completely shut down across all weather types (although the chance remains highest in the worst weather). While what you describe is possible, I've never had it happen to me for that long of a stretch. In a few PBEMs, I had players time their invasions to start sailing into LBA range in Thunderstorms and they were lucky enough to get two straight days of no strikes when the bad weather continued. Five straight days is absolutely atypical in my experience and hopefully will be in yours as well with the new weather adjustments.

In the meantime, I wouldn't be at all concerned with this when starting a new PBEM or continuing an old one. If you see something like it again, I would hope it wouldn't be for another few hundred turns.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

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Re: Re: Required Supply - 8/2/2002 5:24:00 AM

dpstafford

Posts: 1910
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From: Colbert Nation
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Black Cat [B]
1. The Air Not Attacking TF`s problem at PM is not operator error on my part, based on the Manual and the best available Info that Matrix has posted on these Forums & in The Patch Docs.
[/B][/QUOTE]
One other thing to look at. By chance do you have Nav Search set to 100%? I've royally screwed myself a couple of times on that one. If say the Air Group was on an ASW mission, you put the percent dial to 100% ASW. Then later you change from ASW to Naval Attack as the primary mission. The dial automatically changes from ASW percent to NAV SEARCH percent and stays at 100 if you don't change it. I wish they would alter this default behavior.......

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Re: A quick reply... - 8/2/2002 10:18:09 PM

Black Cat

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erik Rutins
[B]Okay, I'll make an attempt to contribute a bit more info.

First, Black Cat, please send me the pertinent info, etc. A zipped save wherein I can duplicate an inexplicable series of non-attacks would be very helpful. I tried setting up some test cases here and PM pounded any approaching TFs into the ocean. Assuming everything is set as you describe, there has to be some kind of bizarre bug or very special case hidden in there somewhere.

Second, Rex, you'll be pleased to hear that the next patch decreases the chance of a base being completely shut down across all weather types (although the chance remains highest in the worst weather). While what you describe is possible, I've never had it happen to me for that long of a stretch. In a few PBEMs, I had players time their invasions to start sailing into LBA range in Thunderstorms and they were lucky enough to get two straight days of no strikes when the bad weather continued. Five straight days is absolutely atypical in my experience and hopefully will be in yours as well with the new weather adjustments.

In the meantime, I wouldn't be at all concerned with this when starting a new PBEM or continuing an old one. If you see something like it again, I would hope it wouldn't be for another few hundred turns.

Regards,

- Erik [/B][/QUOTE]

Erik

Thanks for all the support on this, I was going to set up a long test of the PM Air/Weather issue, but since that is alot of time and work and if it`s going to be "retuned" in the next update, I`ll hold off...

I do have one question for you or Joel, ( at the risk of exposing the Sausages ingredients :D ) can you tell us if Gary has set up the Weather Change routines to be calculated turn by turn , or are the ratios predetermined at the start of each game.

( If you want to answer this by EMail that`s OK ) This info would go a long way to explaining the huge variations players are seeing, from " it`s fine for me " to " it`s broken " ...etc.

TIA

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Post #: 16

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Tech Support >> Hello ! Anyone Awake at Port Moresby ?

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