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Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947

 
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Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/9/2010 8:22:56 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		I originally did this for my own personal enjoyment until TOAW 3.4 is released. But if you want to take a look at the monster I've created, then I'll happily send you a copy.

I reworked basically everything for all 3800+ units. Ratings (entirely revised .eqp file), OOBs, TOEs, etc. Everything. The scenario is called Europa 1947 v3.3gpo (the gpo is for German Programmed Opponent). It is not meant to be played PBEM because the Axis is way too strong now. Human vs. Axis PO is what this is designed for.

A few of the new features I added:
A) Next generation of German tanks, Jaguar replaces Panther (Jaguar I in 1947 and Jaguar II in 1949) and Lion replaces Tiger (Lion I in 1946 and Lion II in 1948).
B) Totally re-worked the PO deployment and PO objective tracks (including surprises, no peeking!).
C) Allied shock set to 99 and Axis shock set to 101 (a few Allied formations will reorganize every turn which can throw a monkey wrench into Allied operations).
D) Every single unit (all 3800+ of them) has a brand new TOE (along with the new ratings for that equipment).
E) All of the formations were revised.
F) Airborne and Special Forces now have their own equipment slots (thus allowing for different replacement rates for airborne and commando units).
G) German rocket and missle units.
H) Etc.

The PO Axis forces have been given all sorts of advantages (increased proficiencies, supply, strength, etc.). The human player should now find the Axis forces to be an extremely dangerous and serious threat.

Some House Rules:
1) American and UK Strat Bombers and Strat Fighters must fly Interdiction (and Air Superiority for the fighters) every turn except one each month. On one turn each month (the Americans and UK may each choose a different turn), the Strat Air Forces are released to fly Combat Support, then back to Interdiction.
2) Allied air drops may not drop more than 5 hexes from a supported (i.e., same force unit colors) friendly supplied unit. Friendly guerrilla units do not count (i.e., players may not use these to count for the 5 hexes), only non-'G' and non-'I' units count for the 5 hexes.
3) The units of the British 21st Corps are heavily restricted: Jewish units may not stack with or fight with any non-British units of the 21st Corps and vice versa (i.e., no mixing of Jewish and Arab units within the 21st Corps).

If you are interested in taking a look, let me know.

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RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/10/2010 9:21:46 AM   
Silvanski


Posts: 2506
Joined: 1/23/2005
From: Belgium, residing in TX-USA
Status: offline 		Wow! Looks impressive. Yeah I sure like to sneak a peek into your mod.

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RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/10/2010 10:08:47 AM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Silvanski

Wow! Looks impressive. Yeah I sure like to sneak a peek into your mod.


My email is:
vahauser51(at)yahoo(dot)com

Send me an email and I'll send you the files.

P.S. One of the reasons I've been spending so much time with Europa 1947 is because I've become convinced that hypothetical scenarios are the best way to play TOAW (it avoids most all of the 'historical' bickering/nitpicking, etc.). I'll probably be spending most of my future time with TOAW playing/developing hypothetical scenarios. One such hypothetical scenario that I've started to work on is "Teutonia vs. Steppeland, 1941-45". But that is for another thread at another time. . .

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RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/10/2010 10:15:42 AM   
Silvanski


Posts: 2506
Joined: 1/23/2005
From: Belgium, residing in TX-USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

One of the reasons I've been spending so much time with Europa 1947 is because I've become convinced that hypothetical scenarios are the best way to play TOAW (it avoids most all of the 'historical' bickering/nitpicking, etc.).


Just make sure those Ta.183 jets are assigned to the correct Jagdgeschwader

Yeah, hypotheticals leave room for some artistic freedom




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RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/10/2010 12:06:59 PM   
shunwick


Posts: 2426
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline 		Removed.

< Message edited by shunwick -- 7/13/2010 3:34:29 PM >

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Post #: 5
RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/10/2010 5:13:20 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Silvanski


quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

One of the reasons I've been spending so much time with Europa 1947 is because I've become convinced that hypothetical scenarios are the best way to play TOAW (it avoids most all of the 'historical' bickering/nitpicking, etc.).


Just make sure those Ta.183 jets are assigned to the correct Jagdgeschwader



Yeah, hypotheticals leave room for some artistic freedom





It isn't just artistic freedom that makes hypothetical scenarios so appealing. I found that I could not fit some historical divisional TOEs within the 24-slot maximum for equipment types for a unit. So I was forced to change from 'historical' to 'artistic' in those cases. Further, the 2000-unit limit also forced me to alter from 'historical' to 'artistic' since I found that I had to merge units together to stay at the 2000-unit limit.

There are many other issues, such as people complaining that replacement rates aren't 'historical', and unit proficiencies aren't 'historical', etc.

No. Hypothetical is definitely superior to 'historical' (which is a red herring anyway) when it comes to TOAW.

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RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/11/2010 3:39:08 AM   
Silvanski


Posts: 2506
Joined: 1/23/2005
From: Belgium, residing in TX-USA
Status: offline 		Great job on Axis TOE!

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RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/16/2010 3:09:50 AM   
will5869

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 10/23/2006
Status: offline 		I would like a copy of this. My e-mail is will5869@hotmail.com

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Post #: 8
RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/16/2010 1:51:25 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: will5869

I would like a copy of this. My e-mail is will5869@hotmail.com


I've made a few small tweaks to the Allied air and Soviet ground TOEs/OOBs since last week.

However, I don't feel comfortable sending you my version of Silvanski's scenario without his permission.

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RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/16/2010 4:11:54 PM   
Silvanski


Posts: 2506
Joined: 1/23/2005
From: Belgium, residing in TX-USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser


quote:

ORIGINAL: will5869

I would like a copy of this. My e-mail is will5869@hotmail.com


I've made a few small tweaks to the Allied air and Soviet ground TOEs/OOBs since last week.

However, I don't feel comfortable sending you my version of Silvanski's scenario without his permission.

Go ahead it is your variant of the scenario, and please send me a copy of the latest version as well
I'll eventually may put it on my site alongside mine once the patch is out

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Post #: 10
RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/16/2010 9:39:02 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: will5869

I would like a copy of this. My e-mail is will5869@hotmail.com



Okay, I sent you a copy. Further playtesting has revealed that the House Rule regarding the Allied Strategic Air needs further refinement:

1) Allied Strategic Air must always be based in England and/or N. Ireland with one exception. EXCEPTION: If Italy surrenders, then either the US 4th or US 7th (not both) Air Force may base at any airbases in Italy south of Rome.
2) Allied Strategic Air consists of: UK Bomber Command, UK Coastal Command, US 8th Air Force, US 4th Air Force, and US 7th Air Force.
3) Allied Strategic Air may not fly Combat Support except for one turn each month. UK Strategic Air and US Strategic Air may choose a different turn each month. Note that flying Combat Support is not performed on a unit-by-unit basis. When the player decides to fly Combat Support with his Strategic Air, then that is the only turn that month that any/all Strategic Air units may fly Combat Support
4) When not flying Combat Support, then Allied Strategic Air may Rest, fly Air Superiority, and/or fly Interdiction on a unit-by-unit basis at the player's choice.

Regarding the British 21st Corps, I think my current House Rule is probably too lenient with respect to Jewish and Arab units. If you want to be more restrictive, then that would probably be more realistic.

< Message edited by vahauser -- 7/16/2010 9:42:40 PM >

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RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/17/2010 8:17:59 AM   
Silvanski


Posts: 2506
Joined: 1/23/2005
From: Belgium, residing in TX-USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

quote:

ORIGINAL: will5869

I would like a copy of this. My e-mail is will5869@hotmail.com



Okay, I sent you a copy. Further playtesting has revealed that the House Rule regarding the Allied Strategic Air needs further refinement

OK. Do you plan to make a scenario notes file?

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RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/17/2010 11:03:17 AM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Silvanski
OK. Do you plan to make a scenario notes file?


That is a good idea. I will take notes as my friends are playing the game and put together a file. It's gonna be a pretty big file, though!

Oh, and I already found another unit to update that I missed. I check and double check and triple check and still I miss units. Anyway, the 15th Breakthrough Artillery Division (BAD) in the Ural Front needs to be updated to the TOE of all the other BADs. I hope that is the last unit that needs to be updated. I hope...

P.S. I renamed all the tank corps and mechanized corps to tank divisions and mechanized divisions. Evidently, sometime between 1946 and 1947 the Soviets reclassified their mobile corps to divisions. The TOEs remained basically the same, only the names changed as far as I can tell.

< Message edited by vahauser -- 7/17/2010 11:04:42 AM >

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RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/20/2010 8:25:57 AM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Well, my friends hate the Strategic Air house rule and refuse to use it. They want to use all their units all the time without restriction (although they do admit that having Jews and Arabs stacking and fighting together is not very plausible).

So, I'm thinking about making yet another update:

A) Make the Jewish forces a separate formation on Internal Support, but leave the Arab forces part of the 21st Corps and change the 21st Corps from Force Support to Army Support.

B) Delete the 4th and 7th USA Strategic Air Forces and replace with the 10th (from Burma), 12th (Mediterranean), and 13th (from the S.W. Pacific) Tactical Air Forces.

Further, I'm thinking about merging Fighter Command, Bomber Command, and Coastal Command into a single formation. In addition, I'm thinking about deleting the Strategic Fighter units and folding them into the Strategic Bomber units. And finally, I'm thinking about cutting the AP strengths of all USA and UK Strategic Bomber AP strengths in half (from 24 down to 12). The intended effect of all this is to do away with the Strategic House Rule, but at the same time render the Strategic Air less useful (and less abusive) on a turn-by-turn basis.

I haven't actually implemented any of this, but I am thinking about it. What do you think?

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RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/23/2010 5:57:49 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser

Well, my friends hate the Strategic Air house rule and refuse to use it. They want to use all their units all the time without restriction (although they do admit that having Jews and Arabs stacking and fighting together is not very plausible).

So, I'm thinking about making yet another update:

A) Make the Jewish forces a separate formation on Internal Support, but leave the Arab forces part of the 21st Corps and change the 21st Corps from Force Support to Army Support.

B) Delete the 4th and 7th USA Strategic Air Forces and replace with the 10th (from Burma), 12th (Mediterranean), and 13th (from the S.W. Pacific) Tactical Air Forces.

Further, I'm thinking about merging Fighter Command, Bomber Command, and Coastal Command into a single formation. In addition, I'm thinking about deleting the Strategic Fighter units and folding them into the Strategic Bomber units. And finally, I'm thinking about cutting the AP strengths of all USA and UK Strategic Bomber AP strengths in half (from 24 down to 12). The intended effect of all this is to do away with the Strategic House Rule, but at the same time render the Strategic Air less useful (and less abusive) on a turn-by-turn basis.

I haven't actually implemented any of this, but I am thinking about it. What do you think?


After doing a little research it is clear to me that the tactical use of strategic bombers is very problematic.

First, these were low-altitude missions, not high-altitude. So the ratings of the strategic bombers need to be made low-altitude instead of high-alitude.

Second, the strategic bombers carried maximum bomb loads with minimum fuel. So the ranges need to be cut way way down. Right now, I'm thinking somewhere between 25% and 33% of the current range ratings.

Third, it was basically impossible to coordinate the strategic bombers with the forces on the ground. This means that the strategic bombers should be of a different force color than any of the Allies.

After taking all of this into consideration, I'm thinking that the USA and UK strategic air forces be combined into a single Allied Strategic Air formation of a different color than any other Allied forces (this might prove tricky in Europa 47 since I think all background colors are already being used), and place the formation on Force Support.

Also, there should be restrictions on how many strategic bombers are available on a turn-by-turn basis. So, after counting all the strategic bomber units currently in the game, I'm going to divide that total by 9 (e.g., if there are 36 strategic bomber units currently in the game, both UK and USA combined, I'll divide that 36 by 9 to leave 4).

What do you think?

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RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/25/2010 11:01:14 PM   
madner

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 6/21/2010
Status: offline 		Remove the strategic bombers and make some events to give them to the allied player for one or two turns. They shouldn't interdict either 

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Post #: 16
RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 7/26/2010 5:04:01 PM   
vahauser


Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: madner

Remove the strategic bombers and make some events to give them to the allied player for one or two turns. They shouldn't interdict either 


On the surface, that sounds good, but there is yet another fly in the ointment. The Axis strategic air forces are also in the game (both bombers and fighters). It is more difficult to determine which Axis air units are 'strategic', especially the fighters. So, completely removing the Allied stategic air units also requires figuring out which Axis air units should be removed. Ugh.

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RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 8/31/2010 5:33:01 PM   
smiley69


Posts: 151
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: Washington State
Status: offline 		This scenario sounds awesome - any chance I could get a copy?

Thanks...

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RE: Silvanski, I've Re-Tooled Europa 1947 - 2/13/2011 4:06:16 PM   
Jo van der Pluym


Posts: 834
Joined: 10/28/2000
From: Valkenburg Lb, Netherlands
Status: offline 		Hi Vahauser

Now the official patch 3.4 is out can you send me by mail a copy of youre re-tooled Europa 1947 scenario.

In advance Thanks

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Greetings from the Netherlands

Jo van der Pluym
CrazyDutch

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